Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

[VT]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Sillinger has shown he can be an ideal line player with Gaudreau and Laine. Conversely, Fantilli's play has improved with the Marchenko. In addition, each line has two centers:

Jenner -- Texier
Laine -- Sillinger
Fantilli -- Danforth
Kuraly -- Olivier

Understand my point correctly, I'm not thrilled that Kent isn't in the lineup either. But even if he was healthy, his preseason wasn't ideal either.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Personally I don’t get the need to rush Blankenburg and Jiricek. Would start them both in the AHL.

blankenburg, peeke and bean are all the same age, and blanks has been (by far) the best of that trio in the NHL. boqvist is nearly two years younger.

there's no such thing as 'rushing' a guy who is 25 and is, at present, their fourth best NHL defenseman imo.

Now you’re making a situation where you’re forced to sell players which gets you less value back. While also risking the development of a young player.

first, sunk cost fallacy. they bet on talent/draft stock when acquiring bean and boqvist, but ended up finding a better player via UDFA in blankenburg. moving a guy who doesn't fit, opening a spot for a player who does and netting additional assets is a good move, regardless of boqvist/bean's original acquisition cost.

second, even if you only move one of those defensemen to clear a spot for blankenburg, someone is going to be a healthy scratch most nights. having a legitimate asset languishing in the press box isn't ideal, either.

third, keeping all three of these guys actually harms the development of their young players. they have a lot of defensemen in cleveland already (christiansen, jiricek, bjork, knazko, sweezey, svozil, ceulemans) – adding blankenburg to that list means someone gets scratched, likely ceulemans who really needs those minutes.

Guess Vincent hasn't liked KJ's game recently. This should light a fire under him.

last year it was frustrating that kent was a healthy scratch in game 1, only to clearly be one of their best forwards for the rest of the season.

this year it's inexcusable to not include him in the opening night lineup if healthy. which makes me think he's banged up enough to warrant a non-contact jersey, but not enough to put on IR or miss games.

 

[traffic cone]

blankenburg, peeke and bean are all the same age, and blanks has been (by far) the best of that trio in the NHL. boqvist is nearly two years younger.

there's no such thing as 'rushing' a guy who is 25 and is, at present, their fourth best NHL defenseman imo.

first, sunk cost fallacy. they bet on talent/draft stock when acquiring bean and boqvist, but ended up finding a better player via UDFA in blankenburg. moving a guy who doesn't fit, opening a spot for a player who does and netting additional assets is a good move, regardless of boqvist/bean's original acquisition cost.

second, even if you only move one of those defensemen to clear a spot for blankenburg, someone is going to be a healthy scratch most nights. having a legitimate asset languishing in the press box isn't ideal, either.

third, keeping all three of these guys actually harms the development of their young players. they have a lot of defensemen in cleveland already (christiansen, jiricek, bjork, knazko, sweezey, svozil, ceulemans) – adding blankenburg to that list means someone gets scratched, likely ceulemans who really needs those minutes.


last year it was frustrating that kent was a healthy scratch in game 1, only to clearly be one of their best forwards for the rest of the season.

this year it's inexcusable to not include him in the opening night lineup if healthy. which makes me think he's banged up enough to warrant a non-contact jersey, but not enough to put on IR or miss games.

I can agree bringing up Blanks (I thought he was younger) to play. Not to sit behind Gudbranson or whoever.

But I also think Peeke/Boqvist are too valuable to be not playing. Play them or trade them. Bean is a wildcard for me.

Jiricek is the future leader of that defense. But I’d rather see him start this season in the AHL, playing 25-30 mins all situations and then join the big team mid-season/after trade deadline like I said.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I can agree of bringing up Blanks (I thought he was younger) to play. Not to sit behind Gudbranson or whoever.

But I also think Peeke/Boqvist are too valuable to be not playing. Play them or trade them. Bean is a wildcard for me.

Jiricek is the future leader of that defense. But I’d rather see him start this season in the AHL, playing 25-30 mins all situations and then join the big team mid-season/after trade deadline like I said.

it's all a numbers game, though.

calling up blankenburg means carrying 8 defensemen and having two of them healthy scratched -- likely peeke/boqvist, who you said are 'too valuable' to not be playing.

alternatively, you play one of those three on the left (where they are worse), healthy scratch both gudbranson ($4m cap) and bean (similar upside and is a lefty) and only carry one spare forward, which… isn't ideal.

that's all without even factoring in jiricek, who as you said should begin in the AHL. but in order for him to join the big team mid-season, there still needs to be a spot for him.

in other words: they have to move someone. they have three different options, all of whom bring something different to the table and are relatively cheap. they're creating a broad enough market that they won't be leaving much (if anything) on the table in terms of trade value.

that said, i think fans will be underwhelmed if it's peeke/boqvist that end up getting moved. they're third pairing players at this point and teams are very cap-strapped, so i think fans are overestimating their actual value independent of the CBJ roster crunch.

 

[Monk]

I think these are roughly the lines Pascal switched to in the last game vs the Caps to get things going, FWIW

 

[traffic cone]

it's all a numbers game, though.

calling up blankenburg means carrying 8 defensemen and having two of them healthy scratched -- likely peeke/boqvist, who you said are 'too valuable' to not be playing.

alternatively, you play one of those three on the left (where they are worse), healthy scratch both gudbranson ($4m cap) and bean (similar upside and is a lefty) and only carry one spare forward, which… isn't ideal.

that's all without even factoring in jiricek, who as you said should begin in the AHL. but in order for him to join the big team mid-season, there still needs to be a spot for him.

in other words: they have to move someone. they have three different options, all of whom bring something different to the table and are relatively cheap. they're creating a broad enough market that they won't be leaving much (if anything) on the table in terms of trade value.

that said, i think fans will be underwhelmed if it's peeke/boqvist that end up getting moved. they're third pairing players at this point and teams are very cap-strapped, so i think fans are overestimating their actual value independent of the CBJ roster crunch.

I agree moving someone now. After reading your view on Blankenburg. Not force the trade though.

And then move another player if needed when you want to bring Jiricek up. Highly likely though that there will be injuries and another player doesn’t need to be moved even.

All in all it’s a positive problem to have.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

And then move another player if needed when you want to bring Jiricek up. Highly likely though that there will be injuries and another player doesn’t need to be moved even.

All in all it’s a positive problem to have.

they have more than enough depth/call-up candidates either way. bjork looked capable enough in his call-up last season. christiansen is a capable #7 at this point. even knazko/svozil/sweezey would be fine as call-ups for a game or two here or there.

 

[Youngguns80]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Sillinger has shown he can be an ideal line player with Gaudreau and Laine. Conversely, Fantilli's play has improved with the Marchenko. In addition, each line has two centers:

Jenner -- Texier
Laine -- Sillinger
Fantilli -- Danforth
Kuraly -- Olivier

Understand my point correctly, I'm not thrilled that Kent isn't in the lineup either. But even if he was healthy, his preseason wasn't ideal either.

Gifting Sillinger top line minutes really? Marchenko should be there with Laine/Gudreau.

I know I am banging on Sillinger but he needs to be playing center on the 1st line in Cleveland - developing not being carried. He only has about 14 games until he is no longer waiver exempt.

 

[traffic cone]

So I’d probably do

Werenski-Severson
Provorov-Blankenburg
Bean-Boqvist
Gudbranson

Peeke has the most trade value of the three potential candidates. Bean and Boqvist have more untapped potential still.

Gudbranson can play as the 7th D or play more minutes if his skillset is more important against a certain opponent. Boqvist I’d like to see on the PP if he’s not traded.

Trade Peeke now. Trade one of Boqvist/Bean/Blankenburg before the deadline if needed.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[VT]

Gifting Sillinger top line minutes really? Marchenko should be there with Laine/Gudreau.

I know I am banging on Sillinger but he needs to be playing center on the 1st line in Cleveland - developing not being carried. He only has about 14 games until he is no longer waiver exempt.

Sillinger will play wing, which is a pretty different thing. He showed in the Caps game that he can help two rather technical players with his physical style of play. And if you looked at the time, Laine played less than 12 minutes in 5 on 5.

Marchenko, on the other hand, played pretty decently with Fantilli.

Regarding the lines. It seems to me that Vincent wants to keep the pace high, so he'll use three lines with roughly equal ice-time. This was exactly the problem for Toronto in the PO. The third line is nothing much. And we need to use this system in regulation already.

 

[traffic cone]

Watch the main boards and the Toronto media turn this into ”Laine is cocky and arrogant one trick pony fork knife soft european” again.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[cbjthrowaway]

patrik laine has that dog in him

friendship ended with pascal vincent

 

[Napoli]

This double negative has confused me greatly

 

[CBJx614]

This double negative has confused me greatly

It's not uncommon for highly skilled players to not give much effort it happens a lot. Thankfully we have the bodies we can do this. Yeah KJ is skilled but if he's not busting his ass during practice then he shouldn't be rewarded time.

It's creating competition between guys. You can have all the skill in the world but if you don't care enough to work hard then it doesn't matter.

This is why I don't judge guys too hard from what we can see as fans. We don't know if guys are dogging it at practice, in the weight room, in meetings and film sessions. All that factors in.

 

[AndBoomGoesTheCannon]

I’m ready for the Dark Laine era

 

[stevo61]

Hopefully hes just trying to get Johnson's attention and this is all a show. To put Johnson in that spot while Sillinger has gotten a pass when everyone could see he needed development time is certainly a choice.

 

[tunnelvision]

Hopefully hes just trying to get Johnson's attention and this is all a show.

Kent would not listen, he did not know how. Perhaps he'll listen now?

#DSLjoke

 

[BB88]

i don't get the staff/front office's infatuation with peeke over boqvist.

unless they're convinced that boqvist can't work next to provorov, there's no reason to weigh one player's okay camp (peeke) over the other's very good performance over the last ~40 games of the season (boqvist).

obviously werenski and provorov love to jump up into the rush, and severson gets labeled as a puck-mover, but boqvist is clearly a better option to run PP1 than any of them. there's nothing that peeke does that werenski/severson/provorov/gudbranson can't do.

There’s just no longterm spot for Boqvist.

So if you can still sell him for value sell him for value

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I have no issues with KJ getting the bench for a day. He had a rather weak preseason. I think every single player in that top 9 had a better preseason than he did. Obviously if it creeps into another game or two, something will have to give, but I don’t think it’s a problem for the message to be sent that more is expected of him.

 

[CBJx614]

Hopefully hes just trying to get Johnson's attention and this is all a show. To put Johnson in that spot while Sillinger has gotten a pass when everyone could see he needed development time is certainly a choice.

I would imagine it's a more educated choice than any of us would be able to make from the outside looking in.

 

[Napoli]

Johnson will be very important if this team is going to make some noise. I'm okay with Vincent getting his attention that your spot isn't a given just because he played well last year. Need to cut the entitlement out for all players, especially the high draft picks.

 

[VT]

Canada loves Patrik Laine.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Kent would not listen, he did not know how. Perhaps he'll listen now?

#DSLjoke

I can still remember how tunnelvision used to make me smile.