Line Combos: Roster Discussion/Line Combos

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koteka

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and a ton of their blown third period leads this year have come in games where pascal refuses to ice any of the young guys in the third, and just rotates the jenner + kuraly lines. he's a coward. it makes the actual on-ice product unwatchable.

There are some parallels between the CBJ and OSU basketball this year. Blowing leads being one thing both teams were doing. OSU fired the coach, and the new coach played the younger guys more, and the team stopped blowing leads. Everyone had given up on OSU basketball but now people in Columbus are excited about basketball again.
 
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Aaaarrgghh

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So like a 7th round pick?
Something like that. I was thinking a cap-strapped team like Tampa or Edmonton might take a chance on him. If they really want him, maybe Columbus can drive up the price to a 6th. No, in all seriousness, I thought that Peeke got them a 3rd, so maybe, just maybe, a team would be willing to give a pick around the middle of the draft for him.

But I see your point: you mean that the potential gain of trading him is not that high, while the potential gain of keeping him could be. And the downside of keeping him is Columbus get another AHL guy. I guess I'm a pessimist.
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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for all the talk of gaudreau having a bad year…
After a slow start (understandable considering the circumstances), he's got like 49p in his last 55 games. That's pretty decent considering his poor shooting luck and relatively weak supporting cast.

Interesting stat - Gaudreau currently ranks 1st among LWs in primary assists at 5v5 while playing on one of the worst teams in the league in a relatively conservative system. And that's after starting the season slowly with a brand new coach. He's got 20 primary, but only 5 secondary assists at 5v5 - which tells me he's been getting very little playmaking support - his most common linemate (Jenner) has only 2 primary assists in 600+ mins of 5v5 time with Gaudreau...

In total, he JG has 32 primary assists. The next highest forward on the team has 11. Jackets really need to build up their high danger playmaking ability as a group. KJ is really the only natural playmaker aside from Gaudreau, and he's still got a ways to go.
 

Aaaarrgghh

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After a slow start (understandable considering the circumstances), he's got like 49p in his last 55 games. That's pretty decent considering his poor shooting luck and relatively weak supporting cast.

Interesting stat - Gaudreau currently ranks 1st among LWs in primary assists at 5v5 while playing on one of the worst teams in the league in a relatively conservative system. And that's after starting the season slowly with a brand new coach. He's got 20 primary, but only 5 secondary assists at 5v5 - which tells me he's been getting very little playmaking support - his most common linemate (Jenner) has only 2 primary assists in 600+ mins of 5v5 time with Gaudreau...

In total, he JG has 32 primary assists. The next highest forward on the team has 11. Jackets really need to build up their high danger playmaking ability as a group. KJ is really the only natural playmaker aside from Gaudreau, and he's still got a ways to go.
Excellent post.

A UFA that I really think the Blue Jackets should push heavily for this summer is Sean Monahan. He would bring some playmaking abilities.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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Excellent post.

A UFA that I really think the Blue Jackets should push heavily for this summer is Sean Monahan. He would bring some playmaking abilities.
Monahan is a pretty poor 5v5 player, and he consistently had to be carried by Gaudreau in Calgary. I think CBJ should be looking for a more dynamic option. I think Mittlestadt, Schmaltz, Guentzel, or Necas could all be interesting options for them to pursue.
 

Aaaarrgghh

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Monahan is a pretty poor 5v5 player, and he consistently had to be carried by Gaudreau in Calgary. I think CBJ should be looking for a more dynamic option. I think Mittlestadt, Schmaltz, Guentzel, or Necas could all be interesting options for them to pursue.
Good point. Necas would be interesting but I think that, in the long-term, Johnson will fill that role for Columbus. Monahan would by design be a short-term solution. Guentzel sadly I don't think is an option while Laine is here. Mittelstadt is probably re-signing in Colorado. I don't know what it would cost to get Schmaltz out of Arizona. I have a hard time seeing them trading him.
 
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cbjthrowaway

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In total, he JG has 32 primary assists. The next highest forward on the team has 11. Jackets really need to build up their high danger playmaking ability as a group. KJ is really the only natural playmaker aside from Gaudreau, and he's still got a ways to go.
this is also why a healthy patrik laine is vital. aside from johnny he's by far the best passing forward on the team.
 

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
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this is also why a healthy patrik laine is vital. aside from johnny he's by far the best passing forward on the team.
It’s vital for any player getting paid $5+ million dollars a year to be beneficial to the team in any way……

Patrik Laine is not “vital” to the CBJ. I’d argue every single other player in the league making the amount of money he does would by more “vital” or “valuable” to the CBJ than he is.
 

cbjthrowaway

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It’s vital for any player getting paid $5+ million dollars a year to be beneficial to the team in any way……
you saw laine's name in the comment and immediately got grumpy in the comments. stronger conditioning than pavlov's dogs.

Patrik Laine is not “vital” to the CBJ.
the context there was that johnny gaudreau has almost 3x as many primary assists this year as the next highest CBJ forward, and has only 5 secondary assists. in other words: this team's forward group is incapable of creating chances for their teammates.

some fun numbers going back to the start of 22-23

G/60
All strengths
Primary A/60
All strengths
Primary P/60
All strengths
G/60
5v5 only
Primary A/60
5v5 only
Gaudreau0.661.27 1.930.510.93
Laine1.270.912.180.950.65
Jenner1.140.381.521.000.40
Marchenko1.140.441.560.840.27

note that laine's sample includes the 18 games this year where he visibly struggled.

purely factually speaking:
  • he has been the team's most productive primary point producer on a per-minute basis over the last two seasons
  • the team is 13-21-7 in the 41 games since he was last in the lineup
maybe i'm the crazy one but from where i stand, calling him "vital" to the team sure looks like a fair assessment of the situation.

I’d argue every single other player in the league making the amount of money he does would by more “vital” or “valuable” to the CBJ than he is.
well, those guys aren't on the blue jackets, so
 
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ginner classic

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Good point. Necas would be interesting but I think that, in the long-term, Johnson will fill that role for Columbus. Monahan would by design be a short-term solution. Guentzel sadly I don't think is an option while Laine is here. Mittelstadt is probably re-signing in Colorado. I don't know what it would cost to get Schmaltz out of Arizona. I have a hard time seeing them trading him.
I think it's pretty likely that Schmaltz gets dealt. His contract structure is not something that is friendly to Arizona's cash flow.
 

majormajor

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in other words: gaudreau has produced like a second-line player on jenner's wing, and like a top-line player when jenner's been out of the lineup. there's no reason to keep them together at this point – especially with all the injuries!

It feels like some essential information should be included here.

In 658 minutes with Boone, Johnny has a 1.91 P/60
In 176 minutes with Fantilli, Johnny has a 1.36 P/60
In 143 minutes with Sillinger, Johnny has a 1.25 P/60

The latter two numbers are abysmal, and those aren't small sample sizes. The one guy who has a great argument for time with Gaudreau is Voronkov, they have two points together in very minimal minutes.

I'd be fine if the coach wanted to try out some different looks with Johnny, but you're clearly trying to make folks think that Johnny scores more without Boone and that is not the case.

Sillinger is not good (most of the time), and Fantilli is just barely getting started. The center options this year haven't been great.
 

Aaaarrgghh

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It feels like some essential information should be included here.

In 658 minutes with Boone, Johnny has a 1.91 P/60
In 176 minutes with Fantilli, Johnny has a 1.36 P/60
In 143 minutes with Sillinger, Johnny has a 1.25 P/60

The latter two numbers are abysmal, and those aren't small sample sizes. The one guy who has a great argument for time with Gaudreau is Voronkov, they have two points together in very minimal minutes.

I'd be fine if the coach wanted to try out some different looks with Johnny, but you're clearly trying to make folks think that Johnny scores more without Boone and that is not the case.

Sillinger is not good (most of the time), and Fantilli is just barely getting started. The center options this year haven't been great.
Stats like that (and the one in the post you replied to) make me curious about rolling average over time (to see if you can notice chemistry developing) as well as comparing it to team scoring (to see if the points production is a by-product of the entire team playing well). As always, it feels like there are many variables involved here.

In the long run, I think Gaudreau and Fantilli together will be very good, but Fantilli is naturally not that 1C yet. I'd like to see them together on a more regular basis next season. But who knows? Maybe the first line in a few years will be Johnson and Fantilli, with Gaudreau and Voronkov on the second line. It's all up in the air.
 
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Indy18

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Aug 17, 2023
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Elvis' check engine light came on again. Im not sure why, I mean of the last 3 cbj games hes played 3 whole periods and 5 minutes..
Honestly...I think thing he's getting punished for the snapping at Bean and they are trying to prevent a media blowup. As a coach that's my job to yell at a player, not his. Considering the upgrade from Illness to Maintenance I wouldn't be shocked if Pascal is trying to assert some authority here. Let Tarry start tomorrow, Jet be his backup (and get some NHL pay for his troubles), then let him go back to Cleveland for his game Wednesday all while healthy scratch Elvis for that snap at Bean.
 
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Iron Balls McGinty

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Aug 5, 2005
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Honestly...I think thing he's getting punished for the snapping at Bean and they are trying to prevent a media blowup. As a coach that's my job to yell at a player, not his. Considering the upgrade from Illness to Maintenance I wouldn't be shocked if Pascal is trying to assert some authority here. Let Tarry start tomorrow, Jet be his backup, let Jet go back to Cleveland for his game Wednesday and healthy scratch Elvis that snap at Bean.
I think a lot of people like to make up conspiracy theories on what they hope might be the case. I also think people read WAY TOO MUCH into last night.
 

Indy18

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I think a lot of people like to make up conspiracy theories on what they hope might be the case. I also think people read WAY TOO MUCH into last night.
I normally agree with you but Elvis did say last night in his interview he's 100%. Based on interviews and such seems like there's been a strain in the locker room and having your players snap on the ice at other's has to never sit well with a coach, especially when your on the hot seat. Really the only players that can get away with that are your Cs and As. Letting players snap at each other just encourages contempt between them. Also like others have said I don't Elvis can't be this soft where he plays a good game then immediately goes from "illness" to maintenance all in a few hours like this when Elvis made sure to tell the radio last night he's feeling great.
 
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Cujorulesdtown9

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Well, whatever it may be, reevaluating after a day off is certainly interesting. Also, we thank Butler for those 54 seconds.
Wonder if we see Chinakhov again this year?
 
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