Speculation: Roster Building Thread XXXX - Sweet Little 16 (…Days until TDL)

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Ola

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Apr 10, 2004
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Where is this coming from? Did anyone credible post something to this effect?

The NHL doesn’t want it. There is very little talk so far, besides Hasek lashing out at AO.

But these things could change fast. Washington banning Ukrainian flags in the arena is about the dumbest thing you could do. In basically all other sports in the world Russians have been tossed out, the paralympics tried but couldn’t let them participate.
 
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Synergy27

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Edge has said we keep checking in on Horvat too. Another guy that needs PP time.

I don't want to overpay for someone's PP production. I want an Even-Strength player or a player who predominantly gets his production from Even-Strength. It's Karlsson or Larkin. How much of an overpay would Larkin take? and Karlsson might not be an option until the draft.

The inconvenient truth, it may cost a Nils Lundkvist to get a 3rd team to eat cap.
We don't need an offensive player. We need one, maybe two responsible two way centers to balance the second and third lines. There's an argument to be made that we need another top 6 winger, but we don't unless Kakko isn't coming back. Chytil can and probably should be moved to wing at this point and the team would be better overall if the pivots were two way players that can skate.

I'm all aboard the overpay for Gourde train. Love the idea.
 

duhmetreE

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It's going to sound terrible but what if Nemeth and Lindgren switched for a bit
 

Miller1983

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It's going to sound terrible but what if Nemeth and Lindgren switched for a bit
Lindgren has def not looked himself. Not sure if injury or etc. I think if we can land Giordnao, it could offer some nice depth incase Lindgren continues to decline. I think Gio would make a very nice pair with Foxy.

In a crazier scenario maybe include Lindgren in a package that can bring us Gio and Gourde
 

jay from jersey

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Edge has said we keep checking in on Horvat too. Another guy that needs PP time.

I don't want to overpay for someone's PP production. I want an Even-Strength player or a player who predominantly gets his production from Even-Strength. It's Karlsson or Larkin. How much of an overpay would Larkin take? and Karlsson might not be an option until the draft.

The inconvenient truth, it may cost a Nils Lundkvist to get a 3rd team to eat cap.

I don’t think he needs it.
At 26 Horvat def fits the age range we’re looking for. He shouldn’t have a problem being a 25-25 ish 50 pt 2c between Bread/kakko presumably.
He’s also better defensively and more physical then strome.
I think in Van they want him to be a 1C/1PP type guy, but that’s not the role he thrives in.

Larkin leaving is basically up to him....
The only way he gets moved is if he tells Yzerman he doesn’t want to resign.
Otherwise, I doubt he even becomes available. Hometown kid and captain now....
Det has also shown they probably aren’t far off from being a playoff team.

At least gourde/Horvat are realistic targets imo....
 
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jay from jersey

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If seattle really is open to moving Gourde, which I doubt,but if they are, throw the kitchen sink to get him with retention.
I just don’t think they’d do it for that many years...
4 seasons is a long time to tie up dead cap.
They can likely get suitors that would offer a comparable trade return with retaining cap for that long if at all.
 
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RangerBoy

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LTIR is really tricky in how it works. It depends on how much cap space the team has remaining. That's why teams get as close as possible to the cap before placing players on LTIR. Examples:

Cap is 81.5 mil
Team is spending 72 mil against the cap
Team places player with 5 mil cap hit on LTIR
Net result: Nothing. No LTIR cap space is created because the team is already more than 5 mil under the cap.

Cap is 81.5 mil
Team is spending 80 mil against the cap
Team places player with 5 mil cap hit on LTIR
Net result: The team can now spend up to 85 mil. The team's new cap ceiling is their previous expenditure + the player's cap hit.

In both cases, the amount of cap the team is using hasn't changed.

It should be noted that LTIR cap space can't be accrued. If the cap is 81.5 mil and the team is spending 80.5 (prorated) mil through the first half of the season, they can spend 82.5 mil (prorated) through the 2nd half of the season. If the team is using LTIR and their new cap ceiling is 84 mil, and they are spending 83 mil (prorated) in the first half, they still can't exceed 84 mil (prorated) in the 2nd half.

It should also be noted that performance bonuses can't be paid via LTIR cap space. Next year we will still have performance bonuses for Laf, Miller and Schneider, and potentially others depending on who makes the team. If we end up spending over the cap due to LTIR, any performance bonuses that are earned will automatically roll over into the next year.

The only way we can take advantage of LTIR next year is if one of our existing players gets hurt and is expected to miss the entire regular season. If we are bringing in a player who is on LTIR, we have to send cap out as well to see a benefit from it.

The Rangers don't have that many performance bonus contracts in 22-23. Lafrenière has $2.85M in bonuses. He is the lone big performance bonus player. Miller and Schneider have $400,000 in bonuses. $850,000 for Barron. The Rangers will have $3.4M in buyout money coming off the books in 23-24. If Lafrenière explodes, the Rangers have the $3,4M coming off the books to absorb that overage. In previous years, the Rangers exceeded the 7.5% bonus cushion. They had Shesterkin and Kakko on big bonus contracts in addition to Lafrenière. They had to leave room in their cap for the difference. That won't be an issue starting next season.

The Rangers will so pressed up against the cap so trying to accrue cap dollars to use at the trading deadline won't be much help to them. It won't be like this season.

The Rangers can trade for a contract for an injured player who will never play again. Maybe Shea Weber. 4 more seasons. $7,857,143. His career is over. The NHL cap should be flat for the next 2-3 seasons. The NHL and NHLPA will figure out how much damage Omicron did to HRR this season. Sather will be happy. The Rangers finally get Weber. The Rangers were interested in him in 2012.

The Rangers build out the roster to $82.5M and beyond using the Weber contract for space. It will give the Rangers more flexibility. They will still need to be careful in how they spend their money. Other teams have done it. TB. Vegas. The Leafs have done it.

$82.5M upper limit. Add 10% in the summer. $90.75M. $82.5 plus Weber's money is $90,357,143. TB is right there with Seabrook's contract.
 

GAGLine

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The Rangers don't have that many performance bonus contracts in 22-23. Lafrenière has $2.85M in bonuses. He is the lone big performance bonus player. Miller and Schneider have $400,000 in bonuses. $850,000 for Barron. The Rangers will have $3.4M in buyout money coming off the books in 23-24. If Lafrenière explodes, the Rangers have the $3,4M coming off the books to absorb that overage. In previous years, the Rangers exceeded the 7.5% bonus cushion. They had Shesterkin and Kakko on big bonus contracts in addition to Lafrenière. They had to leave room in their cap for the difference. That won't be an issue starting next season.

The Rangers will so pressed up against the cap so trying to accrue cap dollars to use at the trading deadline won't be much help to them. It won't be like this season.

The Rangers can trade for a contract for an injured player who will never play again. Maybe Shea Weber. 4 more seasons. $7,857,143. His career is over. The NHL cap should be flat for the next 2-3 seasons. The NHL and NHLPA will figure out how much damage Omicron did to HRR this season. Sather will be happy. The Rangers finally get Weber. The Rangers were interested in him in 2012.

The Rangers build out the roster to $82.5M and beyond using the Weber contract for space. It will give the Rangers more flexibility. They will still need to be careful in how they spend their money. Other teams have done it. TB. Vegas. The Leafs have done it.

$82.5M upper limit. Add 10% in the summer. $90.75M. $82.5 plus Weber's money is $90,357,143. TB is right there with Seabrook's contract.

What contracts are we sending to Montreal for Weber?
 

MrAlmost

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Jun 3, 2010
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I just don’t think they’d do it for that many years...
4 seasons is a long time to tie up dead cap.
They can likely get suitors that would offer a comparable trade return with retaining cap for that long if at all.

Fair point. A boy can dream though.
 

Boris Zubov

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May 6, 2016
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The Rangers don't have that many performance bonus contracts in 22-23. Lafrenière has $2.85M in bonuses. He is the lone big performance bonus player. Miller and Schneider have $400,000 in bonuses. $850,000 for Barron. The Rangers will have $3.4M in buyout money coming off the books in 23-24. If Lafrenière explodes, the Rangers have the $3,4M coming off the books to absorb that overage. In previous years, the Rangers exceeded the 7.5% bonus cushion. They had Shesterkin and Kakko on big bonus contracts in addition to Lafrenière. They had to leave room in their cap for the difference. That won't be an issue starting next season.

The Rangers will so pressed up against the cap so trying to accrue cap dollars to use at the trading deadline won't be much help to them. It won't be like this season.

The Rangers can trade for a contract for an injured player who will never play again. Maybe Shea Weber. 4 more seasons. $7,857,143. His career is over. The NHL cap should be flat for the next 2-3 seasons. The NHL and NHLPA will figure out how much damage Omicron did to HRR this season. Sather will be happy. The Rangers finally get Weber. The Rangers were interested in him in 2012.

The Rangers build out the roster to $82.5M and beyond using the Weber contract for space. It will give the Rangers more flexibility. They will still need to be careful in how they spend their money. Other teams have done it. TB. Vegas. The Leafs have done it.

$82.5M upper limit. Add 10% in the summer. $90.75M. $82.5 plus Weber's money is $90,357,143. TB is right there with Seabrook's contract.

Trading for Weber won't create additional cap space for us, not sure where this fallacy got started. The only reason to trade for that deal is if Montreal owed real dollars on the remaining years & was willing to give up some assets to absorb the financial hit.
 

Bruner4329

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Yes, Kreider is a better goal scorer and player than Chytil, different players. Kreider also started when he was 21 and Chytil is 22 now. Chytil will continue to gain man strength over the next 24 months.
Man strength means squat when the hockey mind is not there. If you think its all physical right now slowing him down then you have not watched closely. His smarts on the ice and vision are lacking big time and no matter how strong he may get if the brain does not catch up he will never reach the supposed potential some think he has.
 
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bigdog16

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I don’t think he needs it.
At 26 Horvat def fits the age range we’re looking for. He shouldn’t have a problem being a 25-25 ish 50 pt 2c between Bread/kakko presumably.
He’s also better defensively and more physical then strome.
I think in Van they want him to be a 1C/1PP type guy, but that’s not the role he thrives in.

Larkin leaving is basically up to him....
The only way he gets moved is if he tells Yzerman he doesn’t want to resign.
Otherwise, I doubt he even becomes available. Hometown kid and captain now....
Det has also shown they probably aren’t far off from being a playoff team.

At least gourde/Horvat are realistic targets imo....

I don't see Horvat being an upgrade over Strome given the cost it would likely take to acquire him. In that case I would rather just re sign Strome
 

NYR Viper

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William Karlsson is the answer here. The cost of acquisition will be smaller due to a variety of reasons, he’s signed at a very reasonable number and term for a player of his pedigree. He’s a very good 2-way center and he has a proven effective track record in the playoffs. He just turned 29.

5 more years at $5.9m per season.

The last 2 years he has had
46 points in 63 games played (only 8 points on the PP)
39 points in 56 games played (only 6 points on the PP)

Both of these seasons project for 50-55 points with production predominantly at even strength.

Face off percentage is an improvement on pretty much everyone on the roster as well.

Lastly, it’s important to understand that Karlsson has done all of this in a role that is VERY similar to what he would play with the Rangers. Top-6 center, 2nd PP unit, primary PKer. His TOI is around 18-18:30 a game. Compare that to someone like Miller whose point totals look more sexy and we find that Karlsson is playing on average 2 minutes less per game. That’s significant because any center that comes in will more than likely assume the 2C spot, playing 17-18 minutes a game and not be playing on the top PP unit with Lafreniere’s emergence.


Let’s look around at the options.
Miller
Will take much more to acquire and his next contract will start at 31. Expect him to get a long term deal at big money. That’s not going to be a contract that ages well

Strome
We know what the team has with Strome. If the goal is to get a more 2-way player than Karlsson is superior. The cost to acquire is nothing as he’s on the team already however his next deal probably has him in the 6-7 year term range which means we will see Strome from 28-35. Karlsson’s deal is 29-34.

Hertl
Injury concerns. Next deal will be higher cap hit and longer term than Karlsson. Cost to acquire assuming a trade will be higher.

In terms of looking at the overall picture, Karlsson is the guy I would key in on. The only question is, would Vegas trade him at the deadline to avoid the crunch in the offseason or would they wait.
 
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cwede

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Not keen on many of the considered vet Cs
But if Scheiffle were actually available, he'd be perfect for 3 playoff springs.
Move Strome to RW with him, Bread for this year.
Maybe get a rental - Copp or Stastny - from Jets too
 

jay from jersey

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Jan 30, 2008
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William Karlsson is the answer here. The cost of acquisition will be smaller due to a variety of reasons, he’s signed at a very reasonable number and term for a player of his pedigree. He’s a very good 2-way center and he has a proven effective track record in the playoffs. He just turned 29.

5 more years at $5.9m per season.

The last 2 years he has had
46 points in 63 games played (only 8 points on the PP)
39 points in 56 games played (only 6 points on the PP)

Both of these seasons project for 50-55 points with production predominantly at even strength.

Face off percentage is an improvement on pretty much everyone on the roster as well.

Lastly, it’s important to understand that Karlsson has done all of this in a role that is VERY similar to what he would play with the Rangers. Top-6 center, 2nd PP unit, primary PKer. His TOI is around 18-18:30 a game. Compare that to someone like Miller whose point totals look more sexy and we find that Karlsson is playing on average 2 minutes less per game. That’s significant because any center that comes in will more than likely assume the 2C spot, playing 17-18 minutes a game and not be playing on the top PP unit with Lafreniere’s emergence.


Let’s look around at the options.
Miller
Will take much more to acquire and his next contract will start at 31. Expect him to get a long term deal at big money. That’s not going to be a contract that ages well

Strome
We know what the team has with Strome. If the goal is to get a more 2-way player than Karlsson is superior. The cost to acquire is nothing as he’s on the team already however his next deal probably has him in the 6-7 year term range which means we will see Strome from 28-35. Karlsson’s deal is 29-34.

Hertl
Injury concerns. Next deal will be higher cap hit and longer term than Karlsson. Cost to acquire assuming a trade will be higher.

In terms of looking at the overall picture, Karlsson is the guy I would key in on. The only question is, would Vegas trade him at the deadline to avoid the crunch in the offseason or would they wait.

karlsson is another possible target.
However, not available until offseason, which is presumably when NYR would make the strome switch anyway.

with Eichel and the emergence of Stephenson as well as having Roy/Patrick/Howden for 3rd/4th c duties I can see them moving karlsson in the offseason.
They will also need to cut cap at that time.
They absolutely would not deal him at the TDL, it makes no sense. They are better off going for it this season because they’ll never have this team assembled under the cap again.

Karlsson- so your looking at trading for a 30 year old with 4 more seasons at 5.9 mill- best case scenario
Hertl- doubt he leaves SJ. But if he does, I’d wager a team like Boston goes hard for him.
Horvat- with Miller-EP as their 1-2 paying Horvat 5.5 mill to be a 3C isn’t ideal.
He remains a potential target imo. He’s also only 26.
Gourde- older, but signed for 4 more seasons. Up in the air if SEA even wants to move him...
Strome- NYR should part ways after this season/playoffs
Larkin/Cirelli/Lindholm- none are likely traded or even made available tbh. Not realistic targets.
Kadri- will want a significant raise. It will likely make the team that gives him a new long deal very sorry they did.
Copp- UFA due for a raise between 5.5-6.5 mill this offseason. He’s a Swiss Army knife C that shouldn’t really be counted on to produce a lot of offense.

The above list is potential guys that are/will likely be available.....
Imo these are the realistic targets that should be discussed.
The cost to acquire/ plus their current contracts/cap hits obviously varies
 
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jay from jersey

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I don't see Horvat being an upgrade over Strome given the cost it would likely take to acquire him. In that case I would rather just re sign Strome
Never know. Still only 26 with solid leadership qualities.
He may thrive here under less pressure with panarin/kakko on his wings in more of a 2c match up role instead of being looked at as an offensive producer.
No one thought strome would work out the way he did here either.
Horvat is better at the parts of the game that strome lacks... so ya never know
 
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gump116

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Vegas is going to pull a Tampa Bay. They will go into the playoffs with a $90+M roster.

Such a stupid ruleset. How can the cap not mean anything in the playoffs?
There’s a pretty simple fix too. Just enforce that the team that is dressed in any game, playoff or regular season, fits under the cap. There’d still be some advantage for depth in case of injuries but would be a much more level playing field.

Eg. Lightning could still have activated Kucherov for the playoffs last year, they’d just be faced with tougher lineup decisions for every game. Dress him and a minimum cap forward or like Tyler Johnson and Alex Killorn for the same ~10m cap.
 

bigdog16

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Never know. Still only 26 with solid leadership qualities.
He may thrive here under less pressure with panarin/kakko on his wings in more of a 2c match up role instead of being looked at as an offensive producer.
No one thought strome would work out the way he did here either.
Horvat is better at the parts of the game that strome lacks... so ya never know

I don’t disagree at all. Just worries me what we would have to give up to get him
 

Roo Returns

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Mar 4, 2010
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Man strength means squat when the hockey mind is not there. If you think its all physical right now slowing him down then you have not watched closely. His smarts on the ice and vision are lacking big time and no matter how strong he may get if the brain does not catch up he will never reach the supposed potential some think he has.

He does not have the vision to be a player like Ziba or an elite player at this point, but his physical gifts are there for him to be 20G-20A guy who can play both sides of the puck.

When I talk about man strength it's to be dominant along the boards and win battles, and to stay in the lineup. He's been injured at least twice every season since his rookie year so there is a physical problem he's having.

Sometimes players overcome that with age, sometimes players will miss 15-20 games a season their entire career.
 

Fitzy

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Jan 29, 2009
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Trading for Weber won't create additional cap space for us, not sure where this fallacy got started. The only reason to trade for that deal is if Montreal owed real dollars on the remaining years & was willing to give up some assets to absorb the financial hit.
Yeah idk what the idea is with RB there.

Getting Weber on LTIR does nothing to add cap or to make this a batter hockey team unless we got a lot of assets to take on the contract or it was a condition on making a deal for another player.
 
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RangersFan1994

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Is Kostin available from the Blues at the deadline? Blues owe us for Buchnevich lmfao.

Rangers need power forward types in the top 9
 
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