Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[LeetchisGod]

Grabner has the 26th highest G/60 since 2013 (3000+ mins).

15th highest since 2014 (2500+ mins)

16 since 2015 (2000+ mins)

3rd since 2016 (1000+ mins)

7th highest this year (300+ mins)

he's not a third liner.

I like Grabner but he's very one dimensional offensively. Doesn't play the powerplay. Isn't a good passer/playmaker.

 

[Fvital92]

Imagine this, next season:

Kreider/Zibanejad/Buchnevich
Miller/Tavares/Zuccarello
Vesey/Chytil/Hayes
Andersson/Nieves/Fast

Lettieri

McD/Pionk
Skjei/Shattenkirk
Crawley/ADA

Granted, its expecting a lot of our D prospects. But that forward depth...

It would be awesome, but I think Tavares is a pipe dream.

 

[Avery16]

Grabner has the 26th highest G/60 since 2013 (3000+ mins).

15th highest since 2014 (2500+ mins)

16 since 2015 (2000+ mins)

3rd since 2016 (1000+ mins)

7th highest this year (300+ mins)

he's not a third liner.

Its not his ability thats in question. Its where he actually plays.

 

[Avery16]

It would be awesome, but I think Tavares is a pipe dream.

Why wouldn't he take a little less to stay in NYC but for a much more competitive team?

 

[LeetchisGod]

If you think that winning is the only measure of success, everybody, except Pittsburgh, were pretenders. I disagree with this line of thought.
The thing is the is more parity in this season than last one, we are in the mix of contenders right now in my humble opinion.
Agreed 100% on AV. He lost that series for us.

Does this look like a team that can win four 7 game series to you? Pittsburgh had four forwards around a point per game in the playoffs last year. Who is going to do that for us?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Tavares is having arguably his worst season, outside of his rookie season. Not great going into UFA.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Tavares is having arguably his worst season, outside of his rookie season. Not great going into UFA.

Huh? He's on pace for over 40 goals and 90 points.

 

[Fvital92]

Does this look like a team that can win four 7 game series to you? Pittsburgh had four forwards around a point per game in the playoffs last year. Who is going to do that for us?

Zibanejad, Kreider, Zuccarello, and one of Buchnevich or JT. Miller? It's possible, not likely though. I'm confident we can will a series against anyone this year, no so much against TB to be honest, but injuries happens and etc.
I like our chances better this year than last year.

 

[Fvital92]

Why wouldn't he take a little less to stay in NYC but for a much more competitive team?

Because I think he is resigning with the Islanders.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Huh? He's on pace for over 40 goals and 90 points.

Mostly because of a very high Sh%. His individual shot rates are all the worst of his career outside of his rookie season, possession numbers are not great compared to his usual numbers. On-Ice SH% is the highest of his career, as is his individual shooting%. He's still great, but might be some signs he's declining. Or it's just too small a sample, but so far, eh.

 

[Savant]

I predict Tavares is staying in the Metro, but not staying in New York.

 

[LeetchisGod]

Zibanejad, Kreider, Zuccarello, and one of Buchnevich or JT. Miller? It's possible, not likely though. I'm confident we can will a series against anyone this year, no so much against TB to be honest, but injuries happens and etc.
I like our chances better this year than last year.

None of those guys have sniffed a point per game in the playoffs. Miller has been particularly putrid. 1 goal in his playoff career is embarrassing.

 

[kovazub94]

How can anyone say right now we ar not contending this year? There is one great team, TBL, that will probably run away with the president's trophy, so what? The last winner that won the stanley cup was Chicago in 2012-2013. We absolutely can make a run this year, hell, Ottawa did last year with a horrible team.
If we are not looking good near the tradeline, sure, trade Nash, Grabner, Holden, etc. Let's hold this firesale idea until at least until the end of the season.

Completely agree with this often repeated and immediately forgotten point that being a President Trophy contender does not automatically correspond to being in the SCF.

Separately, if a team is trading away more than one forward without immediate replacement - who's filling out the missing spot in the lineup? Outside of top3OA picks, most prospects need at minimum 2 years to make it to the NHL and at least another 2-3 to start contributing in a difference-making way. That is if they pan out in the first place. Some will be busts. It's safer from this perspective to make gradual changes to be able to adjust the plan for such busts without actually being forced into tanking due to bad luck in drafting.

 

[kovazub94]

I think selling Nash makes sense. I would look to re-sign Grabner IF his price tag was reasonable. If he is looking for more than $3.5m I'd sell him off too. I think that of Gorton would go full bore into this small restock of the system from the end of last season, through this season and this off-season he could fully stock the cupboard. As many have pointed out, it's more about regaining the pieces necessary to provide that flexibility should an opportunity present itself. Right now, the organization doesn't have those pieces.

This is pretty much my middle-ground position. Trade Nash (without being lowballed) for a return that includes an NHL ready forward and try to resign Grabner to under $4m per contract. Stay put without making any other larger moves.

 

[Savant]

Trade Nash (without being lowballed) for a return that includes an NHL ready forward.

Suggested earlier this month but this screams Nash for Milano and a conditional pick.

 

[Avery16]

Seems as good a time as any to remind that I endured a 36 hour inquest on this board when I suggested trading Nash earlier this season.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Seems as good a time as any to remind that I endured a 36 hour inquest on this board when I suggested trading Nash earlier this season.

His value will be higher later on because of the lower cap hit.

 

[Avery16]

His value will be higher later on because of the lower cap hit.

The opposing argument at the time was you don't trade him at all in a contract year, because his play will be transformational and nothing we could get in return will match what we'd be losing come POs.

Besides that (lol) I don't know that his value is necessarily higher just because you trade him at the deadline. It would potentially yield more trading partners for the reason that you cited, but there might be a team out there that would put more worth in having Nash over the course of a season, to get a better playoff slot, to better gauge the worth in re-signing him, etcetera

 

[NickyFotiu]

Seems as good a time as any to remind that I endured a 36 hour inquest on this board when I suggested trading Nash earlier this season.

Wait who called an end to your inquest???

Nash makes the most sense based on his age, points, and unlikelihood that we will re-sign him next season.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The opposing argument at the time was you don't trade him at all in a contract year, because his play will be transformational and nothing we could get in return will match what we'd be losing come POs.

Besides that (lol) I don't know that his value is necessarily higher just because you trade him at the deadline. It would potentially yield more trading partners for the reason that you cited, but there might be a team out there that would put more worth in having Nash over the course of a season, to get a better playoff slot, to better gauge the worth in re-signing him, etcetera

The problem is that those teams probably can't add his cap hit early on in the season.

With 50% retained, his cap hit today would be ~2.5m

 

[Avery16]

The problem is that those teams probably can't add his cap hit early on in the season.

With 50% retained, his cap hit today would be ~2.5m

That’s what I just said, but you also have exchanges of bad contracts

 

[Kocur Dill]

I like Grabner but he's very one dimensional offensively. Doesn't play the powerplay. Isn't a good passer/playmaker.

Like talking to a wall brother.

Grabs has grown on me but trying to convince people he is a 3/4th line SHG role player is like pulling teeth. Put him on 1/2 RW and see how he does against 1st pair defenders and 1/2 LW/C rushes and back checking.

Isles figured out what he was and when he wanted commensurate pay for production they let him go to Toronto who made the mistake of paying/thinking he was a 1/2 RW. He came back down to earth with a prove-it deal with NYR and there seems to be a mutual understanding at this point on where he is most effective. Kudos to him to not letting ego affect his legacy. Too bad people waste their time arguing here differently.

 

[Kupo]

How can anyone say right now we ar not contending this year? There is one great team, TBL, that will probably run away with the president's trophy, so what? The last winner that won the stanley cup was Chicago in 2012-2013. We absolutely can make a run this year

This mentality is exactly why were in the position we’re currently in.

Instead of living paycheck to paycheck every week, look down the road. Make smart investments.

The Rangers turned their frachise around when they took a different approach to building a team.

Unfortunately, due to guys like Jagr + Lundqvist, we never fully committed ourselves to a proper rebuild. Why is that? Because of the mentality you have.

Been there. Done that. Over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Some of you guys just don’t learn from previous mistakes.

Insanity

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

 

[NYR Viper]

Grabner is a difference maker for this team. He may play on this teams 3rd line but the guy scores like a top-6 player. He tilts the ice in the Rangers favor on that line. If his request isn’t unreasonable I’d re-sign him.

Moving Holden needs to be done. It’s a no brainer. By the deadline Graves, Pionk and ADA will have all played around 40-50 games in the AHL this year. It’s time to see what they have.

Move Nash. The Rangers have invested so much into him by both trading for him and in his salary. He isn’t the scorer he once was but his two-way play is superb. In saying that, this organization isn’t really in a spot to pay $5m or so for another solid 2-way player who doesn’t dominate offensively.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I wish I could find the interview where Tavares literally said he would never play for the Rangers so that this nonsensical debate could stop. Tavares and Karlsson will not play for the Rangers. Unless Karlsson tests FA which is unlikely.