Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

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Kupo

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Look at NJ. Philly. Carolina. Toronto. Edmonton. TB.

Focus on 2020-2021.

Make the sacrifices today that’ll allow us the opportunity of competing against the teams that’ll dominate the next era.

PIT WSH and CHI have all put themselves in tough situations. The Ovys, Crosby’s, and Toews of the league are going to be overpaid players producing less than their $$$.

Keep pace with the direction the NHL is heading in. The league has yet again, changed.

Faster. Younger. Skilled. Cost controlled.

This team won’t be a legit contender for 2-3 years. The players you acquire now should be players peaking during that time.

Some of you want go re-sign Nash + Zucc.

Why?

Are they going to be positive assets, worthy of their contracts? I don’t think so.

Move them for HQ prospects, or high end picks.

What kind of player will McD be in 3 years? Will he be worth 7-8m with a NMC?

Sacrifice today. Avoid high end players like Tavares and Karlsson. Stock up on high end picks and trust our system will develop them. Look at being a heavy weight with numerous cost controlled players that can contribute for years.

This upcoming draft is freaking loaded with talent. Pit yourself in an opportunity to pick 2 Times in The top 10. Or 4-5 times between picks 25-40.

We can’t **** this opportunity up. We’re in a unique position and need to take a risk that’s different than trading for Karlsson.
 

Charlie Conway

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I just have no interest in ponying up the assets to get a guy like Karlsson. Our assets would stay in the East, and that can just turn around and bite us in the ass.

If you want to sign Karlsson, just wait for FA. Sure, Karlsson would have an immediate impact, but is this team really that close to being a contender? I just don't see it.

Stay the course. It's a plan I rate a solid 5/7.
 

DanielBrassard

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May 6, 2014
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I just have no interest in ponying up the assets to get a guy like Karlsson. Our assets would stay in the East, and that can just turn around and bite us in the ass.

If you want to sign Karlsson, just wait for FA. Sure, Karlsson would have an immediate impact, but is this team really that close to being a contender? I just don't see it.

Stay the course. It's a plan I rate a solid 5/7.
It all depends on what we have to give up, no? If it costs us just Skjei off the roster, that's a pretty big improvement. Skjei is good, but he doesn't come close to Karlsson obviously.

KZB
Nash-Miller-Zucc
Trade-KH-Fast
Carey-Nieves-Grabner

McDonagh-Karlsson
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-Holden

Trade a mid-round pick for a forward to replace Carey, or better yet Vesey, and move Fast or Grabner down a line. Trade Holden for a RH version or bring up Pionk/ADA.

Again, I'm not necessarily on board with this, I'd prefer to sell off pieces.
 

Charlie Conway

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It all depends on what we have to give up, no? If it costs us just Skjei off the roster, that's a pretty big improvement. Skjei is good, but he doesn't come close to Karlsson obviously.

KZB
Nash-Miller-Zucc
Trade-KH-Fast
Carey-Nieves-Grabner

McDonagh-Karlsson
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-Holden

Trade a mid-round pick for a forward to replace Carey, or better yet Vesey, and move Fast or Grabner down a line. Trade Holden for a RH version or bring up Pionk/ADA.

Again, I'm not necessarily on board with this, I'd prefer to sell off pieces.

Apologies if this sounds a little aggressive. A lack of sleep has disrupted my editing skills.

Absolutely--the cost is everything, but even if it only costs Skjei from the roster, losing a first and a Chytil or Andersson level prospect will hurt us long-term, both in terms of overall depth and in terms of cap. If quality 3rd liners were available for a mid-round pick, I would hope Gorton would've already pulled the trigger on such a thing.

And, even so, taking on Karlsson long-term is a tricky thing. He had his achilles surgically repaired and he had fractures in his foot. Part of his ankle bone was removed. Will those hold up long-term? I know Karlsson is an elite player with ridiculous stamina and endurance, but how long will he be at this level? It's a massive gamble, and the odds are not necessarily in our favor.

I would absolutely love to have Karlsson on our roster, but at our current stage of the game, I don't see it working.
 

RangerBoy

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Craig Custance wrote about the Maple Leafs rebuild. He is also the managing director of the Athletic Detroit. Custance wrote about what the Red Wings need to do to get on the Leafs level.

Compare the Rangers to Toronto. Custance wrote about the Leafs strength down the middle. A franchise center like Matthews is very rare. You have to get lucky enough to get a player like him. Most drafts don’t have a legit #1 center. Custance has Nylander listed as a center. He plays wing. Kadri is the 3rd line shutdown guy who contributes 25 goals.

Gorton has added Zibanejad,Andersson and Chytil. Those are his 3 big move besides Shattenkirk. The Rangers have Hayes. They lack Matthews. The Rangers do have young center options. Maybe the Rangers want to attack the lack of franchise center with quality centers throughout the lineup. Andersson and Chytil will have a major say on the Rangers being able to win the Cup.

First line winger. Mitch Marner. The Rangers don’t have a legitimate first line goal scoring winger. Maybe Buchnevich can become that player. The Rangers have good wingers in Kreider,Zuccarello and Miller(playing center for the time being). Nash is in the last year of his contract. Vesey is up and down. If the Rangers don’t have an elite center,they need an elite winger like Patrick Kane(type of player).

Custance mentioned Rielly and Zaitsev. The Leafs don’t have a legit #1 D. Not even close. He brought them into the discussion because both of them are signed long term. The Rangers have Skjei. That’s it. McDonagh will be a free agent next summer. 2019.

Goaltender. The Leafs have Andersen. They traded a #1 pick for him. Shestyorkin should be the heir apparent to Lundqvist. One more season in the KHL. Lundqvist has 3 more years left on his contract. The Rangers need Shestyorkin to be their Bob. Sign him in 2019.

Custance brought up quality role players like Hyman and Brown. That’s the easiest thing to find.

Wingers and D should be on Gorton’s shopping list. Especially D. Young D. Many quality D are available in this draft. The Rangers need one more #1 pick.
 

Charlie Conway

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Nov 2, 2013
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Craig Custance wrote about the Maple Leafs rebuild. He is also the managing director of the Athletic Detroit. Custance wrote about what the Red Wings need to do to get on the Leafs level.

Compare the Rangers to Toronto. Custance wrote about the Leafs strength down the middle. A franchise center like Matthews is very rare. You have to get lucky enough to get a player like him. Most drafts don’t have a legit #1 center. Custance has Nylander listed as a center. He plays wing. Kadri is the 3rd line shutdown guy who contributes 25 goals.

Gorton has added Zibanejad,Andersson and Chytil. Those are his 3 big move besides Shattenkirk. The Rangers have Hayes. They lack Matthews. The Rangers do have young center options. Maybe the Rangers want to attack the lack of franchise center with quality centers throughout the lineup. Andersson and Chytil will have a major say on the Rangers being able to win the Cup.

First line winger. Mitch Marner. The Rangers don’t have a legitimate first line goal scoring winger. Maybe Buchnevich can become that player. The Rangers have good wingers in Kreider,Zuccarello and Miller(playing center for the time being). Nash is in the last year of his contract. Vesey is up and down. If the Rangers don’t have an elite center,they need an elite winger like Patrick Kane(type of player).

Custance mentioned Rielly and Zaitsev. The Leafs don’t have a legit #1 D. Not even close. He brought them into the discussion because both of them are signed long term. The Rangers have Skjei. That’s it. McDonagh will be a free agent next summer. 2019.

Goaltender. The Leafs have Andersen. They traded a #1 pick for him. Shestyorkin should be the heir apparent to Lundqvist. One more season in the KHL. Lundqvist has 3 more years left on his contract. The Rangers need Shestyorkin to be their Bob. Sign him in 2019.

Custance brought up quality role players like Hyman and Brown. That’s the easiest thing to find.

Wingers and D should be on Gorton’s shopping list. Especially D. Young D. Many quality D are available in this draft. The Rangers need one more #1 pick.

For a contending team, players like Nash or Grabner should be of interest, but also Holden or Desharnais as cheaper depth.

I would like a player like Pageau. Possible? He's like a Fast+.
 
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Irishguy42

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Yeah, I agree. I think our center depth will be fine in the future, assuming Chytil and Andersson both pan out. The depth on wing right now is fine, but going forward is not looking great.
 

LaffyTaffy

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Feb 1, 2016
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Yeah, I agree. I think our center depth will be fine in the future, assuming Chytil and Andersson both pan out. The depth on wing right now is fine, but going forward is not looking great.
Assuming we don't trade away our 1st, I think we can fix that this June. Great draft for wingers and dmen.
 

Kaapo di tutti capi

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For a contending team, players like Nash or Grabner should be of interest, but also Holden or Desharnais as cheaper depth.

I would like a player like Pageau. Possible? He's like a Fast+.

I would love Pageau - he's rumored to be available but he's on a cap friendly contract and Melnyk is a tightwad, so I imagine he's one of those guys that has more value to the team than he does in trade value (exactly like Fast). I'd love to get him, but not sure how much I want to overpay for him.
 

NYR Viper

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I wonder if Gorton could work his magic and somehow get Phaneuf + for Staal. Same # of years left. Phaneuf is the better player I believe and he plays the right side which allows for Smith and Skjei to play on their natural side.

What about:

Phaneuf + Pageau for Staal + Holden + Desharnais

Ottawa saves money both this year and moving forward. Phaneuf allows for the pairings to be L-R, L-R, L-R. Pagueau comes in and solidifies the 3C spot and allows Miller to slide over.

Ottawa pays the Rangers via Pageau for taking on Phaneuf's hefty contract
 

Oscar Lindberg

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Yeah the pervasive thought seems to be the team has to get another 1st for the 2018 draft.

This is the draft to take a defenseman. A lot of good ones in this draft. Take a defenseman and forward.

Or take two defensemen and get a forward back in a trade
 

NickyFotiu

NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
Sep 29, 2011
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The great thing about always saying we are planning for the future is the future never comes so we can always be rebuilding indefinitely. No need to ever win games. Lets just keep getting top 10 picks like Win, Ariz, NyI, etc Yay!
 

Savant

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The great thing about always saying we are planning for the future is the future never comes so we can always be rebuilding indefinitely. No need to ever win games. Lets just keep getting top 10 picks like Win, Ariz, NyI, etc Yay!
This is a really immature point of view. The Rangers are in a much bigger market than all of those teams and thus can attract supplemental talent more easily; as long as they don’t ruin their cap with dumb extensions. This is something that no one ever brings up. The Rangers also (arguably) have a better front office than all of those teams. If not, and they can handle a temporary rebuild they shouldn’t have jobs.
 

Bleed Ranger Blue

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Craig Custance wrote about the Maple Leafs rebuild. He is also the managing director of the Athletic Detroit. Custance wrote about what the Red Wings need to do to get on the Leafs level.

Compare the Rangers to Toronto. Custance wrote about the Leafs strength down the middle. A franchise center like Matthews is very rare. You have to get lucky enough to get a player like him. Most drafts don’t have a legit #1 center. Custance has Nylander listed as a center. He plays wing. Kadri is the 3rd line shutdown guy who contributes 25 goals.

Gorton has added Zibanejad,Andersson and Chytil. Those are his 3 big move besides Shattenkirk. The Rangers have Hayes. They lack Matthews. The Rangers do have young center options. Maybe the Rangers want to attack the lack of franchise center with quality centers throughout the lineup. Andersson and Chytil will have a major say on the Rangers being able to win the Cup.

First line winger. Mitch Marner. The Rangers don’t have a legitimate first line goal scoring winger. Maybe Buchnevich can become that player. The Rangers have good wingers in Kreider,Zuccarello and Miller(playing center for the time being). Nash is in the last year of his contract. Vesey is up and down. If the Rangers don’t have an elite center,they need an elite winger like Patrick Kane(type of player).

Custance mentioned Rielly and Zaitsev. The Leafs don’t have a legit #1 D. Not even close. He brought them into the discussion because both of them are signed long term. The Rangers have Skjei. That’s it. McDonagh will be a free agent next summer. 2019.

Goaltender. The Leafs have Andersen. They traded a #1 pick for him. Shestyorkin should be the heir apparent to Lundqvist. One more season in the KHL. Lundqvist has 3 more years left on his contract. The Rangers need Shestyorkin to be their Bob. Sign him in 2019.

Custance brought up quality role players like Hyman and Brown. That’s the easiest thing to find.

Wingers and D should be on Gorton’s shopping list. Especially D. Young D. Many quality D are available in this draft. The Rangers need one more #1 pick.

The Rangers lack gamebreakers. I am pleasantly surprised at how Gorton has gone about reconstructing the roster depth that Sather dismantled chasing a cup from 2012-2015, but the gamebreaker issue will remain.

When is the last time the Rangers had a truly elite talent outside of goal? Jagr? When is the last time they developed one? Leetch? A lot has changed since the lockout, but having (at least) one generational player is still a must.
 
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NickyFotiu

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This is a really immature point of view. The Rangers are in a much bigger market than all of those teams and thus can attract supplemental talent more easily; as long as they don’t ruin their cap with dumb extensions. This is something that no one ever brings up. The Rangers also (arguably) have a better front office than all of those teams. If not, and they can handle a temporary rebuild they shouldn’t have jobs.
No really immature is thinking that a bunch of neophytes that have never had a NHL job are so much smarter than guys that have reached the highest levels in this sport. Nobody on this board knows what conditions Gorton and Slats are faced with better than they do. There are compromises. There is moderation. The lets tank for 5-10 years crowd wanted to "tank" in 2014 and we ended up in the cup final. Every team tries to build through the draft, trades and free agency. There are no plans on this board that guarantees we get closer to a cup win anymore than what we have done for the last 10 years.
 

AWall THE CLAW

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No really immature is thinking that a bunch of neophytes that have never had a NHL job are so much smarter than guys that have reached the highest levels in this sport. Nobody on this board knows what conditions Gorton and Slats are faced with better than they do. There are compromises. There is moderation. The lets tank for 5-10 years crowd wanted to "tank" in 2014 and we ended up in the cup final. Every team tries to build through the draft, trades and free agency. There are no plans on this board that guarantees we get closer to a cup win anymore than what we have done for the last 10 years.

Wish I could like this three times. The tank crowd acts like we need to be the undisputed #1 team in the league ala '94 to win it all. Or that tanking will necessarily lead to drafting a generational talent. It doesn't just happen that way. Since 2012, the Rangers have put themselves in a great spot to contend and compete as one of the final few teams every year save for one. I say ride it out and if you don't win it all with Hank... well.. ****. But you did everything you could.
 

LeetchisGod

This is a bad hockey team.
May 21, 2009
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No really immature is thinking that a bunch of neophytes that have never had a NHL job are so much smarter than guys that have reached the highest levels in this sport. Nobody on this board knows what conditions Gorton and Slats are faced with better than they do. There are compromises. There is moderation. The lets tank for 5-10 years crowd wanted to "tank" in 2014 and we ended up in the cup final. Every team tries to build through the draft, trades and free agency. There are no plans on this board that guarantees we get closer to a cup win anymore than what we have done for the last 10 years.
That 2014 team also had guys like Richards and MSL who had won before and had a track record of performing well in the playoffs. Who does the present team have?
 

NickyFotiu

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That 2014 team also had guys like Richards and MSL who had won before and had a track record of performing well in the playoffs. Who does the present team have?
Richards was also basically relegated to the 4th line by the 2014 SCF. That 2014 also had some guys we still have now. Lundy, McD, Zooks, CK, JT, Nash, Staal, etc. All I'm saying is we have people that are very unrealistic with lots of "theories" but no actual experience. We couldn't get our foot in the door for a NHL GM job for good reason. Nobody on this board knows what it takes to win more than Gorton, Slats, and AV. We have 200,000 trade suggestions made on this board a year but we only make 1-2 significant trades a year. The NHL is not the same as fantasy hockey.
 

GAGLine

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Which posters have proposed that we tank? I haven't seen it. Trading players like Zucc and/or McD doesn't mean tanking, any more than trading Brass or Step did. No one has guaranteed that it will work either. If someone has a guaranteed way to win the cup, please, speak up.

The "anti-tank" people keep arguing against things no one has said.

Teams need a strong farm system to compete at a high level year after year in the salary cap era of the NHL. Our farm system is currently weak.

Is there anyone who disagrees with either of those statements?
 
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Bleed Ranger Blue

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Wish I could like this three times. The tank crowd acts like we need to be the undisputed #1 team in the league ala '94 to win it all. Or that tanking will necessarily lead to drafting a generational talent. It doesn't just happen that way. Since 2012, the Rangers have put themselves in a great spot to contend and compete as one of the final few teams every year save for one. I say ride it out and if you don't win it all with Hank... well.. ****. But you did everything you could.

The "tank crowd" is a caricature. Outside of a couple of posts, I haven't seen anyone advocating tearing everything down.

It is, however, critical the Rangers maximize returns on their assets to have a better chance at acquiring a generational talent in the near future.
 
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ETTER DE

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If winning the last two Stanley Cups is to"put themselves in a though situation" for the 2020-21 seasons, what is then the point of it all?
 

Mac n Gs

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The "tank crowd" is a caricature. Outside of a couple of posts, I haven't seen anyone advocating tearing everything down.

It is, however, critical the Rangers maximize returns on their assets to have a better chance at acquiring a generational talent in the near future.
Maybe I’m just getting caught up in the semantics of what defines a generational player, but how exactly do you expect us to get one without a top draft pick or getting lucky. The only generational skaters I’d consider in the league right now are Crosby, AO, McDavid, and Karlsson. Malkin comes close. As for goalies, we’ve obviously had a generational goalie in Hank considering he’s going to finish as one of the best of all time, but we aren’t talking about goalies at the moment.

Semantics aside, I agree that we’re in that grey area and need to be prudent about how we proceed for the future. Like Nicky said, that balance between skillful youth and vets is important, and we need to be really cautious if we’re thinking about moving a Zucc or McDonagh. They both do more for the team than we’ll ever truly know on a day-to-day basis.
 

LeetchisGod

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Lundqvist, Staal, McDonagh, Kreider, Nash are all among the most battle tested playoff players in the whole league at this point.
Hank I'll give you, although he's not as consistent as he used to be. Staal was awful in the playoffs last year and pretty bad for multiple seasons now. McD peaked during the cup finals run. Kreider was invisible for most of the playoffs last year. Nash has never raised his level of play in the playoffs and is declining. That group is not near enough to win a cup.
 
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