Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Maybe I’m just getting caught up in the semantics of what defines a generational player, but how exactly do you expect us to get one without a top draft pick or getting lucky. The only generational skaters I’d consider in the league right now are Crosby, AO, McDavid, and Karlsson. Malkin comes close. As for goalies, we’ve obviously had a generational goalie in Hank considering he’s going to finish as one of the best of all time, but we aren’t talking about goalies at the moment.

Semantics aside, I agree that we’re in that grey area and need to be prudent about how we proceed for the future. Like Nicky said, that balance between skillful youth and vets is important, and we need to be really cautious if we’re thinking about moving a Zucc or McDonagh. They both do more for the team than we’ll ever truly know on a day-to-day basis.

The chances of "getting lucky" increases if you can swing Nash and Grabner for assets.

Or, we can hang onto those guys and rest on our laurels with a(nother) 1st/2nd round playoff exit. Personally, Im too old to continue dealing with that insanity.

 

[Mac n Gs]

The chances of "getting lucky" increases if you can swing Nash and Grabner for assets.

Or, we can hang onto those guys and rest on our laurels with a(nother) 1st/2nd round playoff exit. Personally, Im too old to continue dealing with that insanity.

Oh if this is about trading those two, then I’ve been on board for a while. However, I’d really try to re-sign Grabner to a 3 year extension if possible in the offseason.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't know how wanting to sell off UFA's when the team isn't a contender is wanting to tank, it's just the prudent thing to do. If we can add multiple 1sts, 2nds, 3rds for them, it gives us more assets to play with for next season when we can actually potentially contend

 

[LeetchisGod]

Oh if this is about trading those two, then I’ve been on board for a while. However, I’d really try to re-sign Grabner to a 3 year extension if possible in the offseason.

Depends on how much he wants. You can't overpay for bottom six forwards.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Depends on how much he wants. You can't overpay for bottom six forwards.

I think the label as a bottom-6er is a bit misleading for him. Top PKer and dude scores goals like crazy in this system. He’s found a really nice niche here and I hope he’d want to stay.

 

[NYR Viper]

I think selling Nash makes sense. I would look to re-sign Grabner IF his price tag was reasonable. If he is looking for more than $3.5m I'd sell him off too. I think that of Gorton would go full bore into this small restock of the system from the end of last season, through this season and this off-season he could fully stock the cupboard. As many have pointed out, it's more about regaining the pieces necessary to provide that flexibility should an opportunity present itself. Right now, the organization doesn't have those pieces.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think the label as a bottom-6er is a bit misleading for him. Top PKer and dude scores goals like crazy in this system. He’s found a really nice niche here and I hope he’d want to stay.

Agreed. Im not going to pigeon-hole Grabner into that sort of label.

 

[Savant]

No really immature is thinking that a bunch of neophytes that have never had a NHL job are so much smarter than guys that have reached the highest levels in this sport. Nobody on this board knows what conditions Gorton and Slats are faced with better than they do. There are compromises. There is moderation. The lets tank for 5-10 years crowd wanted to "tank" in 2014 and we ended up in the cup final. Every team tries to build through the draft, trades and free agency. There are no plans on this board that guarantees we get closer to a cup win anymore than what we have done for the last 10 years.

Sure there is a different between tanking and moderation. The compromise is selling off UFAs that the team shouldn’t be re-signing while keeping the team’s young forward core together. Them and Lundqvist should be enough to keep them about where they are right now, which people seem to be okay with. That being said the team needs assets to prepare itself for its next run. They are not contenders so there is no reason to overpay players that are past their primes/are going to be past their prime for the contracts that they will be signing. This is a reality in a salary cap sport.

To suggest that NYR will turn into ARZ or WPG because the team trades some players that if re-signed are more likely to hurt the team long term, is pretty foolish. There is also no guarantee that this would happen. The reality is the Rangers are the most valuable team in the NHL and have one of, if not the best markets in the USA. They can get free agents whereas ARZ and WPG really have a difficult time doing so. What the Rangers don’t have is a farm system. Will they get a 1st round pick for everyone they need to trade? Maybe? Maybe not? But there is no reason to let them leave for nothing, or to sign them just because the cap went up. They need to take the next year and a half to reload and then they can get back into the thick of things, but as for right now, all they are doing is enabling Vigneault, and they have the same team as they have had the last 2-3 years. We know what their ceiling is.

 

[TheTakedown]

Agreed. Im not going to pigeon-hole Grabner into that sort of label.

Same here. The guy is has not gone more than 3 games at a clip without scoring a goal since the beginning of the year. He's on pace for nearly 40 goals.

 

[kovazub94]

The "tank crowd" is a caricature. Outside of a couple of posts, I haven't seen anyone advocating tearing everything down.

It is, however, critical the Rangers maximize returns on their assets to have a better chance at acquiring a generational talent in the near future.

Generational talent? You need to explain this whole sentence. Because if you refer to 1OA pick or something in that range - it takes tearing down this team as it's currently constructed.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Generational talent? You need to explain this whole sentence. Because if you refer to 1OA pick or something in that range - it takes tearing down this team as it's currently constructed.

A hall of famer. And does it? The Rangers drafted a goalie in the 7th round that became one. The Rangers need to get lucky with a position player in the same way. The best way to do that is to maximize assets and your chance of drafting/developing or trading for one.

Instead, people like you want to hold onto pending unrestricted free agents because the Rangers ***might*** (but very very likely wont) win the Stanley Cup. It's terrible asset management.

 

[Avery16]

Oh if this is about trading those two, then I’ve been on board for a while. However, I’d really try to re-sign Grabner to a 3 year extension if possible in the offseason.

Grabner is doing everything we wanted of him when we signed him, plus a lot more. He can pitch in on the top six when needed, but we signed him as a bottom six/special teams player and thats where he plays. I'd love to have Grabner back, and I would sign him for two years. However, his numbers warrant significant interest around the league, and I would think that he could get upwards of 3 million from a number of teams. Maybe even 4 million from a team or two. I don't think we should match that. I would offer him 2.75/two years, and if three years got it done, I would say thank you, Mr. Grabner. I don't think that's realistic, so I say trade him for a 1st or a blue chip.

 

[NYR Viper]

A hall of famer. And does it? The Rangers drafted a goalie in the 7th round that became one. The Rangers need to get lucky with a position player in the same way. The best way to do that is to maximize assets and your chance of drafting/developing or trading for one.

Instead, people like you want to hold onto pending unrestricted free agents because the Rangers ***might*** (but very very likely wont) win the Stanley Cup. It's terrible asset management.

I agree with everything here. Just to expound, there are very good players that become available every year. Whether that is through UFA or trade for whatever reason players become available. Tyler Seguin. Seth Jones. Taylor Hall. Jonathan Drouin. PK Subban. Brent Burns. Jeff Carter. Kyle Turris. Mika Zibanejad. Ryan Suter.

This team needs assets to be able to pounce on an opportunity to land a couple of these types of guys. The Rangers player development and Management has been very good about being able to dig up and find depth pieces. The current team is full of these types of guys. Wait for another opportunity to pounce on another young skilled player and continue building in that way. In saying that, they need the assets to make an attractive trade package while still being able to ice a competitive roster around these guys.

 

[Kupo]

A hall of famer. And does it? The Rangers drafted a goalie in the 7th round that became one. The Rangers need to get lucky with a position player in the same way. The best way to do that is to maximize assets and your chance of drafting/developing or trading for one.

Instead, people like you want to hold onto pending unrestricted free agents because the Rangers ***might*** (but very very likely wont) win the Stanley Cup. It's terrible asset management.

Karlsson was a 15th overall as well. There are gems.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I agree with everything here. Just to expound, there are very good players that become available every year. Whether that is through UFA or trade for whatever reason players become available. Tyler Seguin. Seth Jones. Taylor Hall. Jonathan Drouin. PK Subban. Brent Burns. Jeff Carter. Kyle Turris. Mika Zibanejad. Ryan Suter.

This team needs assets to be able to pounce on an opportunity to land a couple of these types of guys. The Rangers player development and Management has been very good about being able to dig up and find depth pieces. The current team is full of these types of guys. Wait for another opportunity to pounce on another young skilled player and continue building in that way. In saying that, they need the assets to make an attractive trade package while still being able to ice a competitive roster around these guys.

Great post.

 

[NYR Viper]

I don't think a team needs a generational talent (although this term is thrown around a lot so it's probably just semantics). What a team needs is 4-5 players who can really help carry the major load both offensively and defensively. They must be able to drive the play. On the Rangers, who drives the play consistently? Zibanejad is very close. McDonagh I would say yes. Buch looks like he could be that type of player. The Rangers over the last 3 years have done it by committee in that Hayes, Zuccarello, Miller, Grabner, Skjei, etc may be a 2nd, 3rd or 4th piece depending on where their game is at. That's a good thing to have and it can mask the lack of another 1-2 top end guys. The teams that win have those guys who consistently do this while also having the added depth.

I'd say the Rangers need 2 more high end players. This isn't really a surprise as they have a boat load of money tied up in Staal, Hank (who has been better as of late) and Nash. This is part of the reason the team can't bring in those guys. This is also one of the reasons why I believe myself, and others, are hesitant to hand out extensions to a 33 year old Nash or make a major investment in McDonagh at 30. Cap space is as much an asset as a 1st round pick is.

 

[Fvital92]

How can anyone say right now we ar not contending this year? There is one great team, TBL, that will probably run away with the president's trophy, so what? The last winner that won the stanley cup was Chicago in 2012-2013. We absolutely can make a run this year, hell, Ottawa did last year with a horrible team.
If we are not looking good near the tradeline, sure, trade Nash, Grabner, Holden, etc. Let's hold this firesale idea until at least until the end of the season.

 

[Roo Returns]

It's not only about high end players, but guys who step it up in the post season. On this Rangers squad, Lundqvist, Skjei, and Fast are the only three who come to mind. Kreider did but his last two playoffs have been quiet, and the jury is still out for the younger guys. But collectively the guys who have been there before are fine in the playoffs, but don't kick it into another gear and that's why they've had so many seven game series during the 2012-2015 era. The teams like the 86 Canadians, 89 Flames, 93 Canadians, 2011 Bruins, and you could even throw the 06 Hurricanes in there but that was more of a case of them being more adept than the rest of the league....those teams didn't have generational talents but had guys step up their game when push came to shove.

 

[LeetchisGod]

How can anyone say right now we ar not contending this year? There is one great team, TBL, that will probably run away with the president's trophy, so what? The last winner that won the stanley cup was Chicago in 2012-2013. We absolutely can make a run this year, hell, Ottawa did last year with a horrible team.
If we are not looking good near the tradeline, sure, trade Nash, Grabner, Holden, etc. Let's hold this firesale idea until at least until the end of the season.

Because I've watched this team play. We rarely dominate anyone. We take periods and games off with regularity. We lack elite forwards and players who excel in the playoffs. We have a coach who overplays marginal players. None of this screams cup contender to me.

 

[Fvital92]

Because I've watched this team play. We rarely dominate anyone. We take periods and games off with regularity. We lack elite forwards and players who excel in the playoffs. We have a coach who overplays marginal players. None of this screams cup contender to me.

And Ottawa dominated anyone? Even the Penguins looked lost sometimes in the playoffs last year. You are in, you are a contender. This team is better than last year and we could easily have gone to the conference finals last year.
Chill out guys. Let's wait until near the tradeline to make assumptions regarding this team chances in the playoffs.

 

[Avery16]

Imagine this, next season:

Kreider/Zibanejad/Buchnevich
Miller/Tavares/Zuccarello
Vesey/Chytil/Hayes
Andersson/Nieves/Fast

Lettieri

McD/Pionk
Skjei/Shattenkirk
Crawley/ADA

Granted, its expecting a lot of our D prospects. But that forward depth...

 

[Avery16]

Also, is it worth signing Gudbranson to a reclamation contract this offseason? He'll be 26, big, physical, RHS, handles top minutes, could be a cheap stopgap partner for McD, do what Smith has failed to do thus far.

 

[LeetchisGod]

And Ottawa dominated anyone? Even the Penguins looked lost sometimes in the playoffs last year. You are in, you are a contender. This team is better than last year and we could easily have gone to the conference finals last year.
Chill out guys. Let's wait until near the tradeline to make assumptions regarding this team chances in the playoffs.

Ottawa didn't win anything. Pittsburgh has three elite forwards with a phenomenal track record of playoff performance. They can make up for warts in other areas. Calgary got swept in the first round last year. Were they a contender? It's arguable whether this team is better than last year. Losing Stepan and Lindberg down the middle is a big hit. Also AV is one of the main reasons that we didn't go to the conference finals and he's still here.

 

[SA16]

Grabner has the 26th highest G/60 since 2013 (3000+ mins).

15th highest since 2014 (2500+ mins)

16 since 2015 (2000+ mins)

3rd since 2016 (1000+ mins)

7th highest this year (300+ mins)

he's not a third liner.

 

[Fvital92]

Ottawa didn't win anything. Pittsburgh has three elite forwards with a phenomenal track record of playoff performance. They can make up for warts in other areas. Calgary got swept in the first round last year. Were they a contender? It's arguable whether this team is better than last year. Losing Stepan and Lindberg down the middle is a big hit. Also AV is one of the main reasons that we didn't go to the conference finals and he's still here.

If you think that winning is the only measure of success, everybody, except Pittsburgh, were pretenders. I disagree with this line of thought.
The thing is the is more parity in this season than last one, we are in the mix of contenders right now in my humble opinion.
Agreed 100% on AV. He lost that series for us.