Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[RGY]

I wish I could find the interview where Tavares literally said he would never play for the Rangers so that this nonsensical debate could stop. Tavares and Karlsson will not play for the Rangers. Unless Karlsson tests FA which is unlikely.

Agreed.

The discussion should be based around depth forwards the Rangers could target as they approach the deadline.

Because the reality is, if the team is secure in a playoff position I do not see them selling their players off. They will give it another run because the bottom line is Hank will only be another year older going into next season. Given Nash’s production he won’t return the assets we hope for. And his value to this team will outweigh that.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I wish I could find the interview where Tavares literally said he would never play for the Rangers so that this nonsensical debate could stop. Tavares and Karlsson will not play for the Rangers. Unless Karlsson tests FA which is unlikely.

Yeah, I never thought Tavares would sign here. Maybe if we just significantly overpaid him. But he's not coming here IMO

 

[darko]

Tavares will get 12 mill per. Even if he wanted to sign here not sure I'd give him that.

 

[Fitzy]

Again, unsure if NYR will have enough in space for any real UFA signings. It will be enough work to get the RFAs new contracts and try to bring back either Nash or Grabner.

 

[RGY]

Again, unsure if NYR will have enough in space for any real UFA signings. It will be enough work to get the RFAs new contracts and try to bring back either Nash or Grabner.

Depends on the cap.

As for potential trade deadline targets:

Pouliot
Pageau

I want both.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Nash-Pageau-Zucc
Miller-Hayes-Grabner
Pouliot-Nieves-Fast
Desharnais, Vesey

 

[DanielBrassard]

Again, unsure if NYR will have enough in space for any real UFA signings. It will be enough work to get the RFAs new contracts and try to bring back either Nash or Grabner.

If the cap is at 78-80M we will have plenty of space.

 

[Fitzy]

If the cap is at 78-80M we will have plenty of space.

'
Assuming Skjei, Miller, and Hayes raises offset Nash's salary, and we re-sign neither Nash, Holden, or Grabner, that's maybe 7-8 million in space, with many spots to be filled.

And I'm not seeing an abundance of names on the UFA list that we could both realistically sign that would make the team better on paper than just trying to bring back Nash and Grabmer.

 

[Avery16]

I wish I could find the interview where Tavares literally said he would never play for the Rangers so that this nonsensical debate could stop. Tavares and Karlsson will not play for the Rangers. Unless Karlsson tests FA which is unlikely.

I haven't heard anything even resembling that

 

[Avery16]

If the cap is at 78-80M we will have plenty of space.

Our pending RFAs are significant, and Nash, Grabner could command a lot on the open market. There isn't room to do both. You forget an eighth of our overall salary is devoted to our third D pairing.

 

[Savant]

'


And I'm not seeing an abundance of names on the UFA list that we could both realistically sign that would make the team better on paper.

There isn’t, thats one of the reasons why the rebuild window is opened almost perfectly for them.

 

[mrjiggyfly]

Like talking to a wall brother.

Grabs has grown on me but trying to convince people he is a 3/4th line SHG role player is like pulling teeth. Put him on 1/2 RW and see how he does against 1st pair defenders and 1/2 LW/C rushes and back checking.

Isles figured out what he was and when he wanted commensurate pay for production they let him go to Toronto who made the mistake of paying/thinking he was a 1/2 RW. He came back down to earth with a prove-it deal with NYR and there seems to be a mutual understanding at this point on where he is most effective. Kudos to him to not letting ego affect his legacy. Too bad people waste their time arguing here differently.

My favorite player in the NHL. But you are correct in my opinion. Play him lower line and pk and he will be effective. He doesn't win board battles or drive possession overall. He's opportunistic with great speed and a pretty good shot.[/QUOTE]

 

[Cheapshot]

Can't find the exact one.

 

[Avery16]

I agree with what was said earlier regarding the lack of game-changers. It’s definitely win by committee right now.

 

[Savant]

I agree with what was said earlier regarding the lack of game-changers. It’s definitely win by committee right now.

It’s been win by committee since Jagr.

 

[Avery16]

It’s been win by committee since Jagr.

Gaborik can be a game changer. Hank has been a game changer at times. Yandle is a game changer. Nash used to be a game changer. I believe Shattenkirk can be a game changer. Probably Buchnevich will develop into a game changer.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Our pending RFAs are significant, and Nash, Grabner could command a lot on the open market. There isn't room to do both. You forget an eighth of our overall salary is devoted to our third D pairing.

With a 78M cap, signing Miller, Skjei, Hayes, and Vesey for 16M total, bringing up Chytil and Lettieri and DeAngelo leaves us with 6.1M in cap room with 12 forwards, 7 defenseman and 1 goalie.

KZB
Miller-Chytil-Zucc
Vesey-Hayes-Fast
Holland-Nieves-Lettieri

McDonagh-Skjei
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-DeAngelo
Kampfer

Hank

Buying out Staal and replacing him with Graves would give us over 8M. Cap could go up to 80M or more. It's really not a bad situation. Make a smart move like Miller for a younger forward, and there's even more cap room.

 

[Savant]

Gaborik can be a game changer. Hank has been a game changer at times. Yandle is a game changer. Nash used to be a game changer. I believe Shattenkirk can be a game changer. Probably Buchnevich will develop into a game changer.

Nash and Yandle were never really game changers for the Rangers as they were for their previous teams. Hank is Hank, but I thought this was an offensive exercise.

 

[Savant]

With a 78M cap, signing Miller, Skjei, Hayes, and Vesey for 16M total, bringing up Chytil and Lettieri and DeAngelo leaves us with 6.1M in cap room with 12 forwards, 7 defenseman and 1 goalie.

KZB
Miller-Chytil-Zucc
Vesey-Hayes-Fast
Holland-Nieves-Lettieri

McDonagh-Skjei
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-DeAngelo
Kampfer

Hank

Buying out Staal and replacing him with Graves would give us over 8M. Cap could go up to 80M or more. It's really not a bad situation. Make a smart move like Miller for a younger forward, and there's even more cap room.

Miller for a younger forward is probably not going to be a smart move. Miller is also only 24/25 so I’m not sure how much younger you are getting, especially if you are looking for a realistic upgrade. Not to mention moving Miller hurts the team’s already non-existent winger depth. There is simply no realistic reason to move him unless he wants outrageous money as RFA, but even then he is still under team control.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Miller for a younger forward is probably not going to be a smart move. Miller is also only 24/25 so I’m not sure how much younger you are getting, especially if you are looking for a realistic upgrade. Not to mention moving Miller hurts the team’s already non-existent winger depth. There is simply no realistic reason to move him unless he wants outrageous money as RFA, but even then he is still under team control.

Miller is not nearly as good as his raw point totals show and he is not going to be worth the long term deal that the Rangers are going to give him IMO. I'd rather trade him for someone who is still on their ELC, who shoots the puck more often, and doing this would allow the Rangers to sign a good FA like Marchessault who is what the Rangers need. Wingers are the easiest position to replace, you can find good wingers in FA all the time if you are smart about it.

 

[Alluckks]

We've seen Miller be a real game changer. Like his end to end in OT this year. However, he has gotten Nash syndrome in the playoffs - good chances and consistent decent play but no finish.

 

[Savant]

Miller is not nearly as good as his raw point totals show and he is not going to be worth the long term deal that the Rangers are going to give him IMO. I'd rather trade him for someone who is still on their ELC, who shoots the puck more often, and doing this would allow the Rangers to sign a good FA like Marchessault who is what the Rangers need. Wingers are the easiest position to replace, you can find good wingers in FA all the time if you are smart about it.

As long as Miller gets less than Zibanejad, which he should unless Gorton screws up, it’s a fair deal.

Also who is this ELC shoot first player that the Rangers are getting for Miller? I am not sure that player exists but I am curious to who you feel that player is. I don’t think there is any reason to move Miller for a player that might be better than Miller, when the Rangers already know what Miller is.

Then you bring up Marchessault, who undoubtedly will get more money than Miller will, and is two years older. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Wingers are not the easiest position to replace, and it is extremely risky to try and build out from there, especially when you can compromise the cap in doing so. If your goal is to replenish winger depth you have to do that by trading Nash and/or Grabner (or any other UFA). Maybe McDonagh or Zuccarello if you want to swing for the fences.

The fact is, it is very likely that the Rangers will need Miller to play on a line with Chytil next season, and you would be hard pressed to find a better player that is realistically attainable in a Miller trade. Maybe you could sell me on moving Miller for a similarly aged, under term/team controlled RHD to play with McDonagh, but are you really getting a first pair dman for Miller right now? Probably not.

 

[DanielBrassard]

As long as Miller gets less than Zibanejad, which he should unless Gorton screws up, it’s a fair deal.

Also who is this ELC shoot first player that the Rangers are getting for Miller? I am not sure that player exists but I am curious to who you feel that player is. I don’t think there is any reason to move Miller for a player that might be better than Miller, when the Rangers already know what Miller is.

Then you bring up Marchessault, who undoubtedly will get more money than Miller will, and is two years older. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

Wingers are not the easiest position to replace, and it is extremely risky to try and build out from there, especially when you can compromise the cap in doing so. If your goal is to replenish winger depth you have to do that by trading Nash and/or Grabner (or any other UFA). Maybe McDonagh or Zuccarello if you want to swing for the fences.

The fact is, it is very likely that the Rangers will need Miller to play on a line with Chytil next season, and you would be hard pressed to find a better player that is realistically attainable in a Miller trade. Maybe you could sell me on moving Miller for a similarly aged, under term/team controlled RHD to play with McDonagh, but are you really getting a first pair dman for Miller right now? Probably not.

A few examples: Alex Tuch: 14.86 iCF/60 , Ondrej Kase: 14.29 iCF/60 (SSS), Ryan Hartman: 15.13 iCF/60, Arturri Lehkonen: 19.78 iCF/60. I bring up Marchessault because A) He's another volume shooter, B) He's RH C) He's really good. If you can trade a J.T. Miller for one of those guys I mentioned, and then sign Marchessault you add 2 very good forwards for slightly more cap space than a guy who has consistently declined in individual shot attempts, who doesn't drive possession and expected goals, and is a very risky bet to sign long term, much moreso than Marchessault IMO.

 

[Savant]

Not sure I agree and I don’t know that any of those teams make a Miller trade but fair play to you.

 

[Kupo]

Miller has improved year after year. We haven’t seen his best game yet. He hasn’t peaked.

Given his skill, frame, IQ, and versatility, he’s going to play in the NHL for a long time.

Hopefully for us.

He’s a future leader imo. Just has a bit more growing up.

 

[Ola]

Depends on the cap.

The experts think the USD is gonna fall in 18'. Will the CDN gain on it?
2018 call? Dollar's gonna fall

My bet is that there will be a little extra room under the cap the coming 2-3 years at least.