Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[Ola]

Miller has improved year after year. We haven’t seen his best game yet. He hasn’t peaked.

Given his skill, frame, IQ, and versatility, he’s going to play in the NHL for a long time.

Hopefully for us.

He’s a future leader imo. Just has a bit more growing up.

I think Miller was injured in the POs last season, but that is the only objection I have. When we have faced better competition Miller has been marginalized. He has like 1 goal in his last 44 PO games. I hope you are right.

 

[RangerBoy]

This mentality is exactly why were in the position we’re currently in.

Instead of living paycheck to paycheck every week, look down the road. Make smart investments.

The Rangers turned their frachise around when they took a different approach to building a team.

Unfortunately, due to guys like Jagr + Lundqvist, we never fully committed ourselves to a proper rebuild. Why is that? Because of the mentality you have.

Been there. Done that. Over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Some of you guys just don’t learn from previous mistakes.

Insanity

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

So you don't believe acquiring more depth forwards will make any difference?

 

[RangerBoy]

Agreed.

The discussion should be based around depth forwards the Rangers could target as they approach the deadline.

Because the reality is, if the team is secure in a playoff position I do not see them selling their players off. They will give it another run because the bottom line is Hank will only be another year older going into next season. Given Nash’s production he won’t return the assets we hope for. And his value to this team will outweigh that.

Nash is their best forward on most nights. He has become a dependable two way player. If a team actually looks at his play rather than his production, they will see Nash can help them. He is creating scoring chances.

Lundqvist? The Rangers need to play him more than they do because Hank is on pace to start 70 games this season.

If Henrik Lundqvist seemed all but out on his feet leaving the ice following Saturday’s 3-2 overtime victory in the 5:00 start that followed Friday night’s 4-2 triumph over the Kings at the Garden in which the puck dropped at 7:00, there was a reason for it.

“It was the most tired I’ve ever been in the regular season,” the King said on Monday.” I knew it was going to be a physical challenge. I started cramping a little bit in my hands and feet in the third period.”

Well, it’s not as if he needed those to stop the puck.

Lundqvist is expected to be in nets Tuesday for his 29th start in 34 games. The 35-year-old Swede has thrived under the heavy workload he has sought, going 13-4 with a 2.34 GAA and .928 save percentage in 18 starts in 20 games since the beginning of November.

The franchise goaltender averaged 70 starts from 2006-07 through 2010-11. He started 62 games in 2011-12 and then 43 of 48 in the lockout-truncated 2012-13. The King has averaged 55 starts the last three years, including the 2014-15 season in which he was sidelined for nearly two months with the vascular injury he sustained while being hit in the throat with a shot.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/18/kevin-shattenkirk-former-coachs-comment-bothered-me/

The Rangers are playing Lundqvist too much. For years the Rangers used to say they needed to lighten Lundqvist's workload to keep him fresh for the playoffs. How much will left in the tank by the time the playoffs roll around in April assuming the Rangers make the playoffs?

Those trades for depth players or rentals will make all of the difference. Just like the trades for Staal and Smith.

 

[WeRa]

Miller has improved year after year. We haven’t seen his best game yet. He hasn’t peaked.

Given his skill, frame, IQ, and versatility, he’s going to play in the NHL for a long time.

Hopefully for us.

He’s a future leader imo. Just has a bit more growing up.

I agree ... but at the right price...

 

[RGY]

Nash is their best forward on most nights. He has become a dependable two way player. If a team actually looks at his play rather than his production, they will see Nash can help them. He is creating scoring chances.

Lundqvist? The Rangers need to play him more than they do because Hank is on pace to start 70 games this season.

If Henrik Lundqvist seemed all but out on his feet leaving the ice following Saturday’s 3-2 overtime victory in the 5:00 start that followed Friday night’s 4-2 triumph over the Kings at the Garden in which the puck dropped at 7:00, there was a reason for it.

“It was the most tired I’ve ever been in the regular season,” the King said on Monday.” I knew it was going to be a physical challenge. I started cramping a little bit in my hands and feet in the third period.”

Well, it’s not as if he needed those to stop the puck.

Lundqvist is expected to be in nets Tuesday for his 29th start in 34 games. The 35-year-old Swede has thrived under the heavy workload he has sought, going 13-4 with a 2.34 GAA and .928 save percentage in 18 starts in 20 games since the beginning of November.

The franchise goaltender averaged 70 starts from 2006-07 through 2010-11. He started 62 games in 2011-12 and then 43 of 48 in the lockout-truncated 2012-13. The King has averaged 55 starts the last three years, including the 2014-15 season in which he was sidelined for nearly two months with the vascular injury he sustained while being hit in the throat with a shot.

https://nypost.com/2017/12/18/kevin-shattenkirk-former-coachs-comment-bothered-me/

The Rangers are playing Lundqvist too much. For years the Rangers used to say they needed to lighten Lundqvist's workload to keep him fresh for the playoffs. How much will left in the tank by the time the playoffs roll around in April assuming the Rangers make the playoffs?

Those trades for depth players or rentals will make all of the difference. Just like the trades for Staal and Smith.

I get it, you’d rather sell than compete. It has been your tune the last three seasons. I’d rather compete than fold up shop over an 82 game season.

And it’s amazing how Nash all of the sudden has this great value as an incredible two-way big bodies forward for other teams but gets demolished when he is considered as part of our team...

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Them running Hank into the ground is going to be an issue later in the season for sure

 

[NYR Viper]

I think people look too much to a single player to be a 'difference maker'. That has been the Rangers problem I think. They signed Gaborik, traded for Nash and traded Gaborik, etc. They need to form a group of players who can take over games. It's about rolling players over the boards who can maintain and build momentum.

 

[LeetchisGod]

I think Miller was injured in the POs last season, but that is the only objection I have. When we have faced better competition Miller has been marginalized. He has like 1 goal in his last 44 PO games. I hope you are right.

I think this is a make or break year for Miller playoffs wise. If he is a no show again, I think we should look into dealing him. He has enough playoff experience that he should be able to produce at this point.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Huh? He's on pace for over 40 goals and 90 points.

Possession metrics man. All about those metrics. It is why Chayka and his Yotes are fighting for first place in the NHL... oh wait.... I had the standings reversed. They are fighting for last place.

It is becoming borderline satire reading this board at times. Tavares having the worst season of his career when he is actually on pace for the most goals and points of his career?

On another subject, if Grabner re-signs here in NY, he will be taking much less than he can get on the open market. That is for sure. Maybe he likes it here. Maybe he will take less and get a long term deal. Someone may offer the term and money elsewhere. I do hope we at least attempt to bring him back. We should have the capspace and he has become such an integral player for our team.

 

[NYR Viper]

I didn't think I would ever say this but if I were the Rangers I wouldn't go after Tavares. I'm not in love with him as a long term difference maker.

Here would be my plan from here on out:

2018 Trade Deadline:

To NSH:
Rick Nash

To NYR:
Dante Fabbro + NSH 3rd '18 + NSH 2nd '19


To TOR:
Nick Holden

To NYR:
TOR 3rd '18 + TOR 4th '18


Re-sign Grabner @ 3 years for $3.25m/season

Recall Anthony DeAngelo

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buch
Fast-Hayes-Grabner
MZA-Desharnais-Miller
Vesey-Nieves-Carey

McDonagh-Smith
Skjei-Shattenkirk
Staal-ADA
Kampfer




2018 Off-season:

To OTT:
Jimmy Vesey (RFA) + Ryan Graves

To NYR:
JG Pageau



To DAL:
Marc Staal @ $5m cap hit

To NYR:
Rights to Antoine Roussel (UFA) + 3rd '18

- Rangers sign Roussel - 4 years @ $2.15m


RFA's:
JT Miller - 6 years @ $4.75m
Hayes - 6 years @ $4m
Nieves - 1 year @ $.85m
Skjei - 8 years @ $4.5m

2018 starting line-up:
Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Miller-Pageau-MZA
Fast-Hayes-Grabner
Roussel-Nieves-Lettieri/Gropp

McDonagh-ADA/Pionk
Skjei-Shattenkirk
Smith-ADA/Pionk
Kampfer

I don't think Andersson or Chytil make the team out of camp next season. Both start the year in the AHL and push their way on to the team by mid-season or so. At which point Gorton has options on who to deal for the best return.

 

[Irishguy42]

I really just want to trade Nash to Nashville for the memes. I would buy that jersey.

 

[RGY]

Trading Nash means Millers receives more responsibility which would just be disasterous. I know his points are there this year but he has been woefully bad. Turnover after turnover. Head scratching decisions with the puck all over the ice. And he has disappeared in the playoffs every time he has participated. This will only get worse as he moves up the depth chart because who else is qualified enough to receive Nash’s minutes? No one.

 

[Off Sides]

I would not mind seeing the Rangers at least attempt to extend Grabner. If he is willing to take less to stay, and there are not super restrictive clauses involved there is nothing really wrong with retaining a player that both works here and would still have trade value based on him being on a good contract. If he is looking for a bigger pay day, so be it, at least they'd have more information before the trade deadline to make a choice rather than waiting for the 11th hour.

To me Nash is a different story, I think they'd be smart to move him if they can get another 1st for this next draft even if it's a late 1st. I think if they really want to still "compete" they can move Nash and back-fill his ice time with some combination of Buch and maybe they pick up some other wing for like a 3rd rounder or something at the deadline. That way they are not really selling all that much yet they still pick up a better draft selection in the process.

Holden and DD are also pending UFAs, I don't think either vastly helps present or future, if they can get something for them I think their ice time could be replaced by the farm. Bring up a RD and move Smith to LD, it's not like it really matters which side he is inefficient on. Between Nieves and possibly Chytil that can cover for DD.

If history is a guide, them winning or losing in the playoffs is not going to be effected all that much based on keeping Nash, DD, Holden but them winning or losing in this next draft very well could come down to the return for them, Grabner as well should he have his sights set somewhere the Rangers can not get to.

 

[Mac n Gs]

If we trade Nash, I’d hope they model it after the EStaal or Jannik Hansen trades. Both got decent-to-good prospects/picks that have helped each team that traded away the rental. Carolina got Saarela, turned the one pick into Teuvo and Bickell’s salary dump, and then they took Luke Martin in this prior draft.

Canucks got Nik Goldobin who’s over a PPG in the AHL right now through his age 21&22 seasons and has a few NHL goals under his belt already. Mikos mentiond Emil Petersson as a target in a Nash deal. I like that type of player a lot, or someone like Jacob Forsbacka-Karlsson.

 

[Savant]

Trading Nash means Millers receives more responsibility which would just be disasterous. I know his points are there this year but he has been woefully bad. Turnover after turnover. Head scratching decisions with the puck all over the ice. And he has disappeared in the playoffs every time he has participated. This will only get worse as he moves up the depth chart because who else is qualified enough to receive Nash’s minutes? No one.

I think you are missing the point.

If the Rangers trade Nash, they aren’t (necessarily) trying to contend. Which is fine. They need to see what they have.

 

[SA16]

Lundqvist career save% by month:

Oct: .916
Nov: .924
Dec: .910
Jan: .922
Feb: .926
Mar: .918
Apr: .927
Playoffs (Doesn't let me filter splits for this): .922

Yep. Realllly looks like he's been worn down throughout his career based on lots of work. Yet another nonsense narrative.

(In before "he'll be 35 years old in the playoffs this year" with no proof that that makes any difference whatsoever)

 

[RangerBoy]

I get it, you’d rather sell than compete. It has been your tune the last three seasons. I’d rather compete than fold up shop over an 82 game season.

And it’s amazing how Nash all of the sudden has this great value as an incredible two-way big bodies forward for other teams but gets demolished when he is considered as part of our team...

I want the Rangers to win a CHAMPIONSHIP. They are not one player away from winning it all. Every season the Rangers lose. They lose to different teams. It's not like there is some great team in their way. The Bulls with Jordan didn't stand in the Rangers way.

This organization has won one championship in 77 years and counting. They have fewest Cup wins from the original six franchises. That does not bother you? That annoys the shit out of me.

If you look at Gorton's moves, he is not exactly going for it. Brassard for Zibanejad. Stepan and Raanta for Andersson and DeAngelo. Refused to trade a #1(Chytil pick) to rent Shattenkirk. He spoke to Edmonton about the 4th pick in 2016. He spoke to Arizona about the 7th in 2016. Dave Maloney said Clayton Keller was the Rangers target with the 4th pick. Keller would have given the Rangers an elite first line winger. A roster player or two was coming off the roster for the Edmonton trade. Elliotte Friedman reported the Rangers and Arizona discussed a Stepan deal in 2016 but something needed to happen before the trade was made.

If you want to believe what Elliotte wrote last month,Gorton's move/plans are more in line with my thinking. More prospects, More picks, Mediocrity sucks. He wrote it. He knows his stuff.

 

[RangerBoy]

Lundqvist career save% by month:

Oct: .916
Nov: .924
Dec: .910
Jan: .922
Feb: .926
Mar: .918
Apr: .927
Playoffs (Doesn't let me filter splits for this): .922

Yep. Realllly looks like he's been worn down throughout his career based on lots of work. Yet another nonsense narrative.

(In before "he'll be 35 years old in the playoffs this year" with no proof that that makes any difference whatsoever)

No excuses. Win. Don't blame AV for losing the Ottawa series. Lundqvist was responsible for losing that series.

 

[RiffyNYR61]

No excuses. Win. Don't blame AV for losing the Ottawa series. Lundqvist was responsible for losing that series.

LOL yes, the deployment of the 5 players in front of the goaltender has no bearing on the outcome of games. Specifically benching his best pair (Skjei & Smith) and giving his worst pair (Staal & Holden) the most crucial minutes at the end of games (which ended in failure EVERY time). NOT ON THE COACH NO SIR NUH UH.

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to mention that he played Tanner ******* Glass over Pavel Buchnevich nearly every game of that series. That was also a really really really good decision. The coach did everything he could to put that team in a position to win.

 

[Avery16]

I have zero concerns about Miller.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

No excuses. Win. Don't blame AV for losing the Ottawa series. Lundqvist was responsible for losing that series.

Lmao. Win as a group, lose as an individual. The life of a goalie.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I want the Rangers to win a CHAMPIONSHIP. They are not one player away from winning it all. Every season the Rangers lose. They lose to different teams. It's not like there is some great team in their way. The Bulls with Jordan didn't stand in the Rangers way.

This organization has won one championship in 77 years and counting. They have fewest Cup wins from the original six franchises. That does not bother you? That annoys the **** out of me.

I do not look at it as 1 cup in 77 years. Why cut it off at 77 years? Why not 78 years? Why not 79 years? Were you going to games back then? Why ignore our 3 prior cups if it is so upsetting to you? I look at it as 1 cup in 23 years and no that does not bother me at all. Most fans on this board are younger than 30 years old. Why should they care what we did in a 6 team league in 1950's? I live and breath with the NY Rangers. I have since the 1970's. As long as we are doing everything we can to compete and play entertaining hockey I'm happy. I would only be unhappy if we stopped competing or trying to win. I can not stand quitters.

 

[haohmaru]

Don't blame AV for losing the Ottawa series. Lundqvist was responsible for losing that series.

Comedy gold. I hope you were trying to be funny.

 

[egelband]

I really just want to trade Nash to Nashville for the memes. I would buy that jersey.

Probably as realistic as Staal destined to play with his brothers in Carolina.

 

[egelband]

Trading Nash means Millers receives more responsibility which would just be disasterous. I know his points are there this year but he has been woefully bad. Turnover after turnover. Head scratching decisions with the puck all over the ice. And he has disappeared in the playoffs every time he has participated. This will only get worse as he moves up the depth chart because who else is qualified enough to receive Nash’s minutes? No one.

I think Miller, like Kreider and Zibanejad and maybe Hayes, are growing up. They had lessers roles, thrived, got bigger roles, and currently learning to thrive again. It’s not for sure they’ll be able to do it, but I hope they can. Agreed, Miller has looked overmatched at times. But I think he’s facing the best competition now.