Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

[Kupo]

I guess I value Karlsson higher than most but I really think if there is a non McDavid/Crosby that is worth that package it is him. Erik Karlsson is the best defenseman in the NHL. Yeah I guess I'm the minority but I'm fine giving Ottawa a good young LD, a good prospect that may or may not amount to anything, and a late first for him.

And what do you do when he wants a 8 year/96m contract?

 

[Machinehead]

And what do you do when he wants a 8 year/96m contract?

Give it to him in cash, hundreds only, and tip is agent.

 

[Kupo]

Give it to him in cash, hundreds only, and tip is agent.

6/10

 

[DanielBrassard]

And what do you do when he wants a 8 year/96m contract?

Sign him.

 

[Fitzy]

Much more exciting idea...

Trade a 7th to the Flyers for Matt Read (70%)

 

[Kupo]

Sign him.

So we’ll have:

Shatty
Staal
Smith
Karlsson
Girardis buyout

I imagine we move McDonagh in that case.

So:

EK-Smith
Staal-Shatty

I’m not impressed.

Map out the rest of the roster for me with.

 

[NYR Viper]

Much more exciting idea...

Trade a 7th to the Flyers for Matt Read (70%)

I’d do this tomorrow. I thought 50% the most they could retain?

 

[Irishguy42]

I’d do this tomorrow. I thought 50% the most they could retain?

They meant Read @ 70% salary. So, 30% retained.

 

[DanielBrassard]

So we’ll have:

Shatty
Staal
Smith
Karlsson
Girardis buyout

I imagine we move McDonagh in that case.

So:

EK-Smith
Staal-Shatty

I’m not impressed.

Map out the rest of the roster for me with.

Next season:
Trade Miller for Alex Tuch+
Skjei+ for Karlsson
Sign Hayes 4/17

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/cheap FA-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-ADA/Pionk
Kampfer

Cap Space: 5.8M assuming 80M cap

2019-2020
Sign McDonagh 8/60
Sign Karlsson 8/92
Sign Buch 6/33
Sign Zucc 3/15
Sign Tuch 2/7
ELC
Trade Smith because Staal is likely untradeable

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/Cheap FA/Draft pick-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Staal-Shattenkirk
Graves-ADA/Pionk
7th D

2.2M cap room assuming 85M cap.

Is this likely? No, but it can be done. I'd also still trade Nash, Grabner, and Holden at this deadline to add picks and replenish the prospect pool.

 

[NYR Viper]

If I was Karlsson and a team traded 4-5 high end assets for me, I’d look to sign elsewhere if winning was important to me. They would ruin their depth and become almost instantly less attractive moving forward

 

[SA16]

Next season:
Trade Miller for Alex Tuch+
Skjei+ for Karlsson
Sign Marchessault 5/21
Sign Hayes 4/17

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/cheap FA-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-ADA/Pionk
Kampfer

Cap Space: 5.8M assuming 80M cap

2019-2020
Sign McDonagh 8/60
Sign Karlsson 8/92
Sign Buch 6/33
Sign Zucc 3/15
Sign Tuch 2/7
ELC
Trade Smith because Staal is likely untradeable

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/Cheap FA/Draft pick-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Staal-Shattenkirk
Graves-ADA/Pionk
7th D

2.2M cap room assuming 85M cap.

Is this likely? No, but it can be done. I'd also still trade Nash, Grabner, and Holden at this deadline to add picks and replenish the prospect pool.

5 for 21 seems way way to cheap for Marchessault who will be coming off a 30 goal year two years ago and most likely a 60+ point season this year.

I think you are probably looking at something like the Cam Atkinson contract which was 7-41.

 

[DanielBrassard]

5 for 21 seems way way to cheap for Marchessault who will be coming off a 30 goal year two years ago and most likely a 60+ point season this year.

Oops, lol. U might be right, but he wouldn't be able to fit under the cap for 2019 anyway, so forget signing him.

 

[SA16]

He's exactly what we need though...high volume right handed shooter.

 

[DanielBrassard]

He's exactly what we need though...high volume right handed shooter.

Alex Tuch is as well, plus he's big and can really skate. I'd love Marchessault, but in this scenario, I don't see how we could afford him. Atleast in 19-20. We could definitely afford him for next season.

 

[Avery16]

U can say that for every signing.

When we desperately needed a RHS PPQB, I would say yes. Throw money at the best in the biz. However, now we have Shattenkirk, and ADA might be a season removed from handling second pairing minutes. Now, that position isn’t a priority any longer. If there is a priority position, it’s either the role we signed Smith for, or it’s an elite top six C. I don’t think anyone is worth moving worlds for, honestly. Chytil seems to be right around the corner, as is Shesty.

 

[DanielBrassard]

When we desperately needed a RHS PPQB, I would say yes. Throw money at the best in the biz. However, now we have Shattenkirk, and ADA might be a season removed from handling second pairing minutes. Now, that position isn’t a priority any longer. If there is a priority position, it’s either the role we signed Smith for, or it’s an elite top six C. I don’t think anyone is worth moving worlds for, honestly. Chytil seems to be right around the corner, as is Shesty.

Karlsson isn't a PPQB, he's the best defenseman in the league. He fills every hole on defense at ES. Plus, we wouldn't have to play our 3rd pair as much since he would play 25-30 minutes a night. Allows u to shelter that pairing if needed.

 

[aufheben]

I guess I value Karlsson higher than most but I really think if there is a non McDavid/Crosby that is worth that package it is him. Erik Karlsson is the best defenseman in the NHL. Yeah I guess I'm the minority but I'm fine giving Ottawa a good young LD, a good prospect that may or may not amount to anything, and a late first for him.

I can't comment on what I'd be willing to trade for him, but I agree that he is in that tiny upper tier of the McDavids and Crosbys. Before this season I had no problem calling Karlsson the best hockey player on earth.

Last time I saw a playoff run like that from a defenseman was Pronger on the Oilers during 2005-06.

 

[Kupo]

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/cheap FA-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Smith-Shattenkirk
Staal-ADA/Pionk
Kampfer

Cap Space: 5.8M assuming 80M cap

2019-2020
Sign McDonagh 8/60
Sign Karlsson 8/92
Sign Buch 6/33
Sign Zucc 3/15
Sign Tuch 2/7
ELC
Trade Smith because Staal is likely untradeable

KZB
Tuch-Chytil-Zucc
Pouliot/Cheap FA/Draft pick-Hayes-Fast
Vesey-Nieves-Lettieri
13th forward

McDonagh-Karlsson
Staal-Shattenkirk
Graves-ADA/Pionk
7th D

Don’t forget about Girardis dead cap space.

I don’t see that roster competing for anything though. That’s not a cup contending team. Not that forward group.

You’re sacrificing the future for now. Yes, EK is a tremendous talent but he’ll cripple us for a long time.

Sounds like another case of paying a player a ridiculous amount of money, on top of the ridiculous amount of assets it’ll cost to obtain him, for what he’s produced versus what he’ll likely produce.

This scenario screams been there, done that.

Keep our 1st. And Skjei. And Andersson. Build around the young core we’re developing. Stay the course and avoid that old school NY mentality that’s fist ****ed us forever.

If we really want EK, then offload salary and sign him as a UFA. But I don’t think that’s a good idea either.

 

[Kupo]

EK has a lot of miles on him. And quite a few injuries. It’s tempting, but the risk is one I would avoid.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Don’t forget about Girardis dead cap space.

I don’t see that roster competing for anything though. That’s not a cup contending team. Not that forward group.

You’re sacrificing the future for now. Yes, EK is a tremendous talent but he’ll cripple us for a long time.

Sounds like another case of paying a player a ridiculous amount of money, on top of the ridiculous amount of assets it’ll cost to obtain him, for what he’s produced versus what he’ll likely produce.

This scenario screams been there, done that.

Keep our 1st. And Skjei. And Andersson. Build around the young core we’re developing. Stay the course and avoid that old school NY mentality that’s fist ****ed us forever.

If we really want EK, then offload salary and sign him as a UFA. But I don’t think that’s a good idea either.

Girardi's cap space is factored in. I'd disagree, I think that forward group is probably better, and not to mention, you add Erik freaking Karlsson. Look, I understand why anyone would want to stay away from Karlsson, it's similar to the Shattenkirk situation. Long term deals are very risky. And the Rangers might be better off not going after him, very well could. But if they did go after him, it wouldn't destroy the team.

 

[NYR Viper]

I’m less concerned with paying an absolutely elite talent like Karlsson from 28 even to 36 than I am paying a very good player in McDonagh starting at 30.

Karlsson himself, for me, isn’t the hesitation. If he reaches UFA, it’s no holds bar. I just wouldn’t look to offload the assets required to make the team better moving forward with or without him just for the shot of possibly signing him. There’s no guarantee.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I’m less concerned with paying an absolutely elite talent like Karlsson from 28 even to 36 than I am paying a very good player in McDonagh starting at 30.

Karlsson himself, for me, isn’t the hesitation. If he reaches UFA, it’s no holds bar. I just wouldn’t look to offload the assets required to make the team better moving forward with or without him just for the shot of possibly signing him. There’s no guarantee.

That's a very reasonable POV. The only thing I'd say is, we'd likely have to lose players we don't want to anyway to sign Karlsson, like a McDonagh or Skjei, so if you can trade Skjei+ for Karlsson for next season for instance before Karlsson needs his long-term contract, we would really be able to strengthen the team for next season, with alot of available cap room. I get why you wouldn't want to do that, but it is just something to think about.

 

[NYR Viper]

That's a very reasonable POV. The only thing I'd say is, we'd likely have to lose players we don't want to anyway to sign Karlsson, like a McDonagh or Skjei, so if you can trade Skjei+ for Karlsson for next season for instance before Karlsson needs his long-term contract, we would really be able to strengthen the team for next season, with alot of available cap room. I get why you wouldn't want to do that, but it is just something to think about.

I’d rather keep those guys and, should Karlsson sign in NY, trade them then for added inexpensive depth players.

If this organization hadn’t just gone as long as it did without a 1st rounder and had a more plentiful farm system I’d say absolutely. They’re not at that point IMO

 

[Cassano]

Ah I remember reading up the updates in the Hartford thread about JAM. Always wished he made it as a Ranger, he always had that high-end skillset but size held him back.

 

[Alluckks]

If we are in position for the playoffs at the deadline I have no problem trading mid-picks for a decent rental forward or Dman to help the team. I am generally against trading away 1sts unless it is for a high quality young player, and I am generally against trading for a 1st just for the sake of it, but I have no problem adding a small piece or two every time you are in a playoff position.