Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Off-season Part I

[Barnaby]

Strome, Goodrow, Coleman, Paul, etc were also middling players trying to find their roles.

Not trying to say White will find his role, yet I do think the Rangers should be looking for value. White, etc, may or may not represent that, but the general idea of trying to find players who could perform above what they are currently seen as, above whatever their cap hit may be, seems like a pretty good idea.

Goodrow and Coleman were valuable role players which is why they both cost TB first round picks. That’s also why they got paid.

Strome showed talent earlier in his career which is why he brought back a talented player in Eberle. He was more of a reclamation project for us put had proved that he was at least an NHL player. Bringing him in also allowed the team to shed Spooner.

I’m not sure that I’m comfortable spending much on a role player reclamation project.

 

[bleedblue94]

In the sense that he wasn't bought out? Yeah you're right.

In the sense that a team is probably making a mistake by giving away a player that they undervalue? I don't think so.

Holland isn't exactly infallible, so going the appeal to authority route there doesn't really hold much water (he traded for Duncan Keith who defends the rush about as well as I do and signed Nurse to that insane deal.)

There are a ton of things that JP does very well that are independent of McD and LD. They're all things that we could use and collectively suck at. If/when hes moved, that impact will be felt in Edmonton.

It's one thing if the Rangers got him expecting him to live up to his pre draft expectations. That would be a mistake (much like getting Evan Rodrigues to play 2C.)

If you add him with the mentality that you're going to allow him to play to his strengths and compliment what is already here, he can and most likely would be very useful . Three things we should be looking for are to get bigger, faster and better defensively, he checks ALL of those boxes.

But see if your comment is that Holland isn't infallible and is trading a good player than why are there so few teams interested and offering so little??

As for the differences in nuke and jp exits from their teams, they aren't the same well beyond the buy-out thing. Nuke was horrible in Dallas, people are saying jp was very good for EDM this year. That's part of the difference I am talking about. They aren't the same exiting conditions. One guy had to go bc we know he was brutal and it worked for him after he left. People are claiming jp made mcd and LD better based on analytics.

And I go back to this as well, where does jp play here? He isn't signing here for a 3rd line role after playing on top lines w LD and mcd, so he's going to sign w an expectation at a top line role. If he doesn't get that he can easily go back to Europe and make money there with a bigger role while he refuses to sign here. If Jp on a top two line doesn't work out your plan B right now is kravtsov and kakko in the top two lines. that is assuming laf doesnt play rw to get him more icetime. it just doesnt work out unless you are trading say kravtsov for jp in which case i would not be in favor of that deal.

I can't see any way that nyr goes into next season with the top 3 on the rw depth chart as jp, kakko, kravtsov. There is going to most likely be some legitimate veteran added into that group and if jp comes here than kakko or kravtsov is gone. There is just too much uncertainty with that rw group.

 

[Kupo]

I’m not sure that I’m comfortable spending much on a role player reclamation project.

Absolutely not. There’s are dozens of those players, literally, almost every season post lockout.

Sometimes you find those guys like Nylander, Straka, Stralman, Prospal and so on. But none are worth something legitimate in return.

I think fans here are so focused on all the failed reclamation projects here in NY that they conveniently forget most teams in the league have very similar signings as us.

Sometimes they work out. But in reality, most don’t and that’s not because the team did anything wrong, other than invest on a player that had some sort of potential.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Puljujarvi will always fall short when judged in the eyes of being third overall. He’s most likely a role player. His draft position will always carry the cache of being much more.

Yes, some interest but no high expectations. Plenty of other teams probably see the same things.

Benoit pouliot syndrome

He had long been labeled a disappointment before we signed him due to his draft status, but he was a very good role player for us.

 

[Barnaby]

This trade is a good solid hockey move and benefits both teams.

Really curious now that Grier is heading to San Jose if him and Drury look into some deals perhaps for Kaakonnen.

Personally I'm still on team Charlie Lindgren for the backup, and add Roy or Kolesar or both for center depth, and give the kids a bigger role.

Woof. That means Edmonton would be going into the year with a Georgiev/Skinner tandem. That’s brutal for a team with serious playoff aspirations.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If Puljujarvi wasn't scoring on the empty nets from McDavid and Leo than I have concerns about him scoring here with much lower offensive talents.

 

[bobbop]

I honestly don’t know where Georgiev is headed (my best guess is Chicago) but I’m fairly sure he will have a new address by Friday.

 

[Barnaby]

Benoit pouliot syndrome

He had long been labeled a disappointment before we signed him due to his draft status, but he was a very good role player for us.

As long as that’s the expectation, I’m good with it. I’m not expecting him to be mediocre with superstars then suddenly light it up with Chytil or Goodrow. I’m not keen on Pulju but I wouldn’t hate it.

The real question would be which player runs home sooner... Kravstov or JP... not sure I love this mentality on the team. Shades of Lias...

 

[RangersFan1994]

I honestly don’t know where Georgiev is headed (my best guess is Chicago) but I’m fairly sure he will have a new address by Friday.

Georgiev for Entwistle???

Rangers get cost controlled physical winger.


[

 

[Nickmo82]

If Puljujarvi wasn't scoring on the empty nets from McDavion and Leo than I have concerns about him scoring here with much lower offensive talents.

Wholeheartedly agree. If he can't make it playing with the best player in the world, what makes folk think he'll come here and turn it around?

 

[Ola]

And to your point, JP is not a slow the game down and make plays kind of player. He doesn't have the IQ to play that way. In that way he is a winger version of chytil. We need players with higher IQ, not lesser hockey IQ players.

Also I highly doubt this org comes into next season with a top 9 rw of kakko kravtsov and jp. I would assume they would want at least rw in that group to be a more vet player. There's too much uncertainty with those three as your top 9 rw depth.

Agree, but that wasn’t really my point. To compliment (a) a McDavid and (b) a Panarin — it takes different things. McDavid’s line can play complicated hockey, but they always go forward full throttle. If it takes a complicated play to go forward full throttle, they try that play, if it can be done with a simple play, they do that play, but it’s always the option that enables them to go forward full throttle. Jamie Benn would be perfect with McDavid. Not because he is fast, but because they see the ice the same way. Consistency is super important. They make the same plays all the time, know they are coming and believe in being able to execute on them.

A Pat Kane is the opposite. McDavid and Kane are fantastic players, but they would be horrible linemates. Kane want to slow things down and find open ice, and his entire game is built on the premises that as long as he get can that ice, it doesn’t matter where in the attacking zone it is, he can create offense from it.

My point — is that what you do not want a player to do on a line with McDavid, differs from what you do not want a player to do on a line with Panarin. With McDavid it’s about keeping the torch burning, the pedal to the metal. With a Panarin or Kane it’s about playing keep aways, quantity over quality. A Panarin will blow a fuse if he is on a line with someone that rushes things and take unnecessary risks with the possession of the puck.

Does this mean that Puljujärvi would be a fantastic fit with Panarin but not McDavid? Nah, don’t get me wrong, that is not what I am saying either. My point is just that it’s definitely not comparing apples with apples looking how someone fits with McDavid and drawing conclusions on how they would fit with Panarin.

 

[Ola]

I am sceptical of getting Pulju due to our logjam of younger wingers looking for PP time.

But with that said, I think the picture of him is a — perfect example — of a phenomena we have seen in this league for a longer time now.

A kid is drafted as a high pick and is rushed to the NHL. Puljujarvi is a very big kid who was not finished growing by a mile and was far from dominating the SM-liiga when EDM decided it was time to rush him to the NHL at 17-18 y/o. Once there he goes back and forth between the NHL and the AHL. But facts are, at 6’4-5, and that age, still growing into his body, he wasn’t really ready for the high paced and very straight forward AHL game either.

The “experts” thought he was ready for the NHL at 18, and “they” can of course never be wrong, so how on earth can it be explained that once in NA, he is far from being ready for the NHL??

Now some flaw is projected that isn’t really in touch with reality. Often it’s referred to attitude, but Puljujarvi got really good attitude so he by a miracle avoided getting the “head case” label.

But instead he get the “he has no hockey sense” label. That is total BS in my opinion. Facts are that the impact of size in this league is — at most — marginal like 90% of the time you are on the ice. What buys you time and creates open ice is skating, speed, agility and so forth — at least 90% of the plays. You can have all the hockey sense in the world, but if you don’t get time and space you can’t utilize it.

This is — by far — the biggest difference as a hockey player when you move up levels. You go into the corner to fetch a puck in the attacking zone and you think you have things under control — and all of a sudden you are on your butt and the puck is flying up ice along the boards after being cleared by a defender.

Puljujarvi was robbed of 2-3 super important development years after his draft during which he should have grown into his body and kept playing at a lower level which he would get that time, and further develop his offensive game. Those years can’t be recovered. But he is still a player that can see the ice really well, feed of linemates, be creative offensively and so forth . But the key for him is to find ways to get more time with the puck.

 

[haohmaru]

Why are people mentioning Paul Stastny like he's an option for our 2c? Its not the 2000's anymore, he's atleast 10 years past his prime, and getting slower. I am totally baffled how anyone could watch him the last couple years and hope he replaces Strome or Copp.

I mentioned him as an option.

But for 3C.

 

[RangerBoy]

I honestly don’t know where Georgiev is headed (my best guess is Chicago) but I’m fairly sure he will have a new address by Friday.

The Hawks are serious about tanking next season. Georgiev is their guy in goal.

 

[bleedblue94]

Agree, but that wasn’t really my point. To compliment (a) a McDavid and (b) a Panarin — it takes different things. McDavid’s line can play complicated hockey, but they always go forward full throttle. If it takes a complicated play to go forward full throttle, they try that play, if it can be done with a simple play, they do that play, but it’s always the option that enables them to go forward full throttle. Jamie Benn would be perfect with McDavid. Not because he is fast, but because they see the ice the same way. Consistency is super important. They make the same plays all the time, know they are coming and believe in being able to execute on them.

A Pat Kane is the opposite. McDavid and Kane are fantastic players, but they would be horrible linemates. Kane want to slow things down and find open ice, and his entire game is built on the premises that as long as he get can that ice, it doesn’t matter where in the attacking zone it is, he can create offense from it.

My point — is that what you do not want a player to do on a line with McDavid, differs from what you do not want a player to do on a line with Panarin. With McDavid it’s about keeping the torch burning, the pedal to the metal. With a Panarin or Kane it’s about playing keep aways, quantity over quality. A Panarin will blow a fuse if he is on a line with someone that rushes things and take unnecessary risks with the possession of the puck.

Does this mean that Puljujärvi would be a fantastic fit with Panarin but not McDavid? Nah, don’t get me wrong, that is not what I am saying either. My point is just that it’s definitely not comparing apples with apples looking how someone fits with McDavid and drawing conclusions on how they would fit with Panarin.

I can appreciate what you are saying and it is exactly why I dont think he would fit here and especially with panarin. panarin is a high iq, wait for lanes, patient player. I dont see JP as that kind of player. any thought of moving chytil up to 2c compounds the issue of who the rw is bc chytil is already a low iq offensive player. all that being said I am going to wait and see what happens bc I think the next 7-14 days could be quite interesting

 

[MarkMessyay11]

I honestly don’t know where Georgiev is headed (my best guess is Chicago) but I’m fairly sure he will have a new address by Friday.

Anything we can get for him that’s of value is a win. He doesn’t want to be here and hasn’t for some time…I also think he deserves a look as a 1B, at the very least. He’s a much better goalie when he gets consistent playing time. I wish him well where ever he ends up.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Prefer JT as a rental but the idea of 2 80-90 point centers for the foreseeable future is enticing. It would expedite the removal of Trouba to Detroit though

I’m not buying JT being as a perennial 80-90 point center. His game has obviously improved since he left us, but he’s coming off a huge career season that just doesn’t match his historical production. It’s not unreasonable to say he’s a 65-80 point player for the next few seasons. But he’s going to want to be paid like a 90+ point player. And, to be fair, I can’t blame him…

I also think Vancouver is looking for a return that matches that type of player as well. Considering all that, IF JT is on Drury’s short list of C’s, I hope it’s towards the bottom.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

The Hawks are serious about tanking next season. Georgiev is their guy in goal.

I would not be surprised if Georgiev is a perfectly fine starter.

I just think he’s a bad backup. He seemed to play much better for us when he had regular playing time.

That being said I still don’t want him anymore

 

[bleedblue94]

I am sceptical of getting Pulju due to our logjam of younger wingers looking for PP time.

But with that said, I think the picture of him is a — perfect example — of a phenomena we have seen in this league for a longer time now.

A kid is drafted as a high pick and is rushed to the NHL. Puljujarvi is a very big kid who was not finished growing by a mile and was far from dominating the SM-liiga when EDM decided it was time to rush him to the NHL at 17-18 y/o. Once there he goes back and forth between the NHL and the AHL. But facts are, at 6’4-5, and that age, still growing into his body, he wasn’t really ready for the high paced and very straight forward AHL game either.

The “experts” thought he was ready for the NHL at 18, and “they” can of course never be wrong, so how on earth can it be explained that once in NA, he is far from being ready for the NHL??

Now some flaw is projected that isn’t really in touch with reality. Often it’s referred to attitude, but Puljujarvi got really good attitude so he by a miracle avoided getting the “head case” label.

But instead he get the “he has no hockey sense” label. That is total BS in my opinion. Facts are that the impact of size in this league is — at most — marginal like 90% of the time you are on the ice. What buys you time and creates open ice is skating, speed, agility and so forth — at least 90% of the plays. You can have all the hockey sense in the world, but if you don’t get time and space you can’t utilize it.

This is — by far — the biggest difference as a hockey player when you move up levels. You go into the corner to fetch a puck in the attacking zone and you think you have things under control — and all of a sudden you are on your butt and the puck is flying up ice along the boards after being cleared by a defender.

Puljujarvi was robbed of 2-3 super important development years after his draft during which he should have grown into his body and kept playing at a lower level which he would get that time, and further develop his offensive game. Those years can’t be recovered. But he is still a player that can see the ice really well, feed of linemates, be creative offensively and so forth . But the key for him is to find ways to get more time with the puck.

i'm not sure that it is a no hockey sense label so much as offensive iq, and if jp cant find time and space to make plays while on the ice with mcdavid and ld then who the hell else is going to open up ice for him? those guys draw more coverage and create more space for linemates than almost anyone else bc teams are so focused on them, and mcd's speed opens up a lot of space and time for linemates. i just dont see him as a guy that you look at and say "we are going to be better if jp has the puck more than his linemates do if he is playing on a top line." you're absolutely right he was robbed of critical development years, but that isnt being undone and his offensive game may never grow to where it could have when he was drafted, OR jarmo was right all along...

 

[bleedblue94]

I’m not buying JT being as a perennial 80-90 point center. His game has obviously improved since he left us, but he’s coming off a huge career season that just doesn’t match his historical production. It’s not unreasonable to say he’s a 65-80 point player for the next few seasons. But he’s going to want to be paid like a 90+ point player. And, to be fair, I can’t blame him…

I also think Vancouver is looking for a return that matches that type of player as well. Considering all that, IF JT is on Drury’s short list of C’s, I hope it’s towards the bottom.

i mean he has been a point a game player over the past three years with 217 points in 202 games. this isnt a small sample size at this point. the question of how he and his game ages is the important one. he will be 30 before his current contract expires. kadri is going to be 32 years old in a couple months and people dont seem to have an issue throwing around crazy money towards him yet he only has one season as a outlier of production (this year). I think kadri's ufa contract is going to be quite telling as to what you can expect miller's deal to be. miller will get an extra couple years of term but the aav shouldnt be that far off between the two guys. the issue is kadri is just costing you money, miller costs you assets and then the money. miller will not make it to ufa

Woof. That means Edmonton would be going into the year with a Georgiev/Skinner tandem. That’s brutal for a team with serious playoff aspirations.

is skinner on a one way deal next year or is it still two way?

I do wonder if toronto signs fleury if they dump mrazek somwhere to free up cap space and look at georgiev as a split with fleury for a year to see if he can be their guy going forward. just wondering out loud, no info to back that up right now.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Woof. That means Edmonton would be going into the year with a Georgiev/Skinner tandem. That’s brutal for a team with serious playoff aspirations.

Lol Edmonton had Mike Smith and Mikko Koskinen last season. You dont think Geo is an upgrade on both of those guys?

 

[Vitto79]

So is signing Copp nuts at like 5 million given the cap ?

Not sure how they fill their needs W a cheaper option

I’d entertain moving Chytil and the obvious Nemeth , Georgiev, Gauthier plus a prospect like Lundkvist

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Fascinating to me what Drury decides to do with the 2nd line center hole.

Pretty pivotal decision that will affect the roster for the foreseeable future.

I think for the first time in a long time I'm just kinda sitting back and seeing what hell do instead of putting my two cents in on it. I think I could make a case for any of the trade targets as well as resigning Strome or Copp, but a lot depends on the terms or what is going back in a trade.

I have a feeling if a trade is made, its going to be something out of right field, for a player that is completely out of everyones radar.

 

[eco's bones]

With our cap situation we simply cannot afford an expensive backup at least at this moment in time. That doesn't mean though that we don't need someone can do the job well. The most important thing for me is wins over losses. Alex managed that this year with 15 wins 10 losses. A lot of it wasn't pretty but that's kind of what I'm hoping for from our next backup who will without a doubt will be cheaper. I don't think Kinkaid or Huska gets us there and I want Garand in his first pro season to get plenty of action which means for him being in Hartford.

Not just anybody will do.....and a lot of vets who've been knocking around forever aren't IMO a good answer either. There are a lot of average, not so good goalies around. I wouldn't even say that the Stanley Cup winning goalie this year is all that great either. He's good but he's not nearly the biggest reason they won.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Fascinating to me what Drury decides to do with the 2nd line center hole.

Pretty pivotal decision that will affect the roster for the foreseeable future.

I think for the first time in a long time I'm just kinda sitting back and seeing what hell do instead of putting my two cents in on it. I think I could make a case for any of the trade targets as well as resigning Strome or Copp, but a lot depends on the terms or what is going back in a trade.

I have a feeling if a trade is made, its going to be something out of right field, for a player that is completely out of everyones radar.

Bo Horvat it is.

$5.5M for 1 year left on his deal. Get'em cheap, Drury!