Robbie Schremp or Kris Chucko?

[Torch]

Comparing stats for Schremp and Chucko is difficult. Chucko plays on a very deep team in a league with older and stronger players than the OHL.

Schremp, on the other hand, is the big dog on a team in a league that has many more younger and underdeveloped players.

I'm not saying that Chucko would keep the same offensive pace as Schremp if he played in the CHL, but I would bet anything that his numbers would be fairly high.

Just to clarify my position, if both Schremp and Chucko reached their projected potential, then I would take Schremp. But as of right now, both of those guys are only prospects, and I think Chucko is the safer prospect because even if he doesn't score a lot, he has many other assets that would make him a useful player. With Schremp, if he cannot score at the NHL level, then he will likely not play in the NHL at all. Therefore, as PROSPECTS, I would take Chucko. If both prospects turn out like their best case projections state, then I think Schremp will have been the better pick.

Remember, it's completely possible for one to be a better "player", but the other to be a better "prospect".

(And don't bother mentioning pre-season performances. Many players have dominated in the pre-season only to disappear in the regular season).

 

[Phanuthier*]

What was there to "show" in the first place?

You just destroyed any argument you had when you called Hemsky "inconsistant" despite having almost twice as many points as Koba-who in the same number of games.

Nice one!

Horcoff has more points then Iginla, in less games.

Horcoff > Iginla as well, I guess?

 

[Phanuthier*]

I'd rather have Hemsky than Koba-who because I'd rather have Havlat over Dvorak.

Wow, what an ignorant statement.

 

[Phanuthier*]

How about you poll Hemsky vs. Kobasew then? Want another lopsided result like this thread?

Why? What's that gonna prove?

"Hey, look, a bunch of posters from Hockeys Future think player x is a better then player y. Of coarse, both are in the Western Conference and time zones where most of the games they play are past their bedtime."

I just said I would rather have Kobasew. You think a poll is going to convince me?

Do you think a poll is going to convince you?

Like I said, I'll let you believe that your inconsistant, dime-in-a-dozen, soft Alice Hemsky is a better player then Kobasew, who comes to play every night, can play in all situations, creates chances from his speed and physical play and isn't afraid to drive to the net. I'll also let you believe that Hemsky, who has never won anything in his life, is more valueable then Kobasew, who has come in the clutch as a rookie with Boston in the NCAA being their MVP at the final four, who was Team Canada's MVP at the WJC gold medel game, who was captain and MVP on the Lowell Lockmonsters and the coach's go-to-guy on a team that featuered Eric Staal, and a player who has been to the Stanley Cup finals... over Alice Hemsky, an inconsistant forward who had a bunch of points in the first couple games of a NHL season, and thats as far as his resume goes.

It's not about individual performances - its about what an individual can do for a team. Kobasew is the Flames most consistant forward from the begining of the seaosn to now (heck, getting Iginla going some nights), for a team tied for the division lead. Hemsky can barely float his team into a playoff spot right now.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Chris Chucky, has The SEdins skating abilities without the hands. Wow. you call this guy a scoring foward, and he does not even have skill. You say hes a checking foward and hes not even fast enough.

You say he "drives" to the net, and that was at the BCHL level.

good pick Calgary.

I guess living in Vancouver enables you to catch alot of Minnisota's games?

Or that you read every report on Kris Chucko (at least get his name right) to know any of those things?

Or just look completely lost

 

[Randall Graves*]

I love seeing all you canadians go at it!! keep it up!

 

[Phanuthier*]

I love seeing all you canadians go at it!! keep it up!

You should see what happens when Calgary and Edmonton joins forces to gang up on Vancouver!

Even Winnipeg decided to join us one time.

 

[Cerebral]

Like I said, I'll let you believe that your inconsistant, dime-in-a-dozen, soft Alice Hemsky is a better player then Kobasew, who comes to play every night, can play in all situations, creates chances from his speed and physical play and isn't afraid to drive to the net.

Ales Hemsky
ES Mins/Game: 11.14
SH Mins/Game: 0.82
PP Mins/Game: 5.18

Chuck Kobasew
ES Mins/Game: 10.14
SH Mins/Game: 0.09
PP Mins/Game: 3.05

Who is playing in all situations again?

You're severely underrating Hemsky in your critique. Hemsky has been somewhat inconsistent but what 22 year old kid isn't? He's had times where he's struggled but he's also been the most dominant player on the ice at times (ask Nashville fans). He's been fantastic on the powerplay and he's actually done a pretty good job on the penalty kill as well.

Also, while he's not a two-way grinder, he's not neccessarily afraid of contact. Ales has been nailed a number of times this season but he's continued to play hard and fight through contact. He's never going to be confused with Adam Deadmarsh but Hemsky is slowly developing into a very gifted offensive player.

Statistics certainly don't say everything but Hemsky is currently on pace for a 19-63-82 season while Kobasew is projected to 33-11-44. Kobasew will always be the better defensive player but I think you're selling Hemsky very short.

By the way, Kobasew has scored 6 of his 12 points in the last 6 games (he had 6 in 16 before that) - does that make him inconsistent?

 

[sunb]

I guess living in Vancouver enables you to catch alot of Minnisota's games?

Or that you read every report on Kris Chucko (at least get his name right) to know any of those things?

Or just look completely lost

I live in Minnesota and I can tell you that Chucko has zero Iginla potential. He is raw but the potential for a 1st line offensive threat is out of his range.

On the Golden Gophers' roster, Chucko's offensive potential is below that Wheeler, Potulny, Kessel, Irmen and Goligoski's. Yes, Goligoski is a defenseman whose maximum potential in the NHL is 40 points. That is where I see Chucko's maximum offensive potential in the NHL - 20 goals and 20 assists.

That isn't an insult at all, Chucko can still become a great character guy. Max potential? A more physical version of Linden. A leader on and off the ice. Probably a great 2nd liner on a championship team if all his intangibles are factored in.

At the same time, he has nowhere near the potential you seem to endow him with in your illusions. He doesn't have Iginla potential. Iginla scored 21 goals and 50 points in the NHL as a 19 year old. Chucko, as a 19 year old, is clipping at a 0.15 gpg and 0.65 ppg in the NCAA. Even a 18 year old Kobasew scored 27 goals and 49 points in 43 NCAA games. You talk about all this competition but the fact is that Chucko is competing for ice-time against 18 year old freshmen like Kessel and Wheeler.

Chucko is raw but I think his offensive ceiling has somewhat expired. He is going to be 20 in three or months and he is 6th on Golden Gophers in scoring. Iginla-potential is non-existant and even Morrow-potential / Smyth-potential is slowly fading out of the picture.

But again, this isn't bad. Chucko can still become a very valuable NHL player. Through hard work and determination, he has it in him to be an excellent (and very physical) two-way 2nd liner, which every championship team needs.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Horcoff has more points then Iginla, in less games.

Horcoff > Iginla as well, I guess?

well to you Donavan > Bertuzzi because of stats, and Its Horcoff> Iginla because of stats too. Dont complain.

as for the Chucko, thing he might turn into a good NHLER but hes no Iginla now or in the future.

 

[Phanuthier*]

I live in Minnesota and I can tell you that Chucko has zero Iginla potential. He is raw but the potential for a 1st line offensive threat is out of his range.

On the Golden Gophers' roster, Chucko's offensive potential is below that Wheeler, Potulny, Kessel, Irmen and Goligoski's. Yes, Goligoski is a defenseman whose maximum potential in the NHL is 40 points. That is where I see Chucko's maximum offensive potential in the NHL - 20 goals and 20 assists.

That isn't an insult at all, Chucko can still become a great character guy. Max potential? A more physical version of Linden. A leader on and off the ice. Probably a great 2nd liner on a championship team if all his intangibles are factored in.

At the same time, he has nowhere near the potential you seem to endow him with in your illusions. He doesn't have Iginla potential. Iginla scored 21 goals and 50 points in the NHL as a 19 year old. Chucko, as a 19 year old, is clipping at a 0.15 gpg and 0.65 ppg in the NCAA. Even a 18 year old Kobasew scored 27 goals and 49 points in 43 NCAA games. You talk about all this competition but the fact is that Chucko is competing for ice-time against 18 year old freshmen like Kessel and Wheeler.

Chucko is raw but I think his offensive ceiling has somewhat expired. He is going to be 20 in three or months and he is 6th on Golden Gophers in scoring. Iginla-potential is non-existant and even Morrow-potential / Smyth-potential is slowly fading out of the picture.

But again, this isn't bad. Chucko can still become a very valuable NHL player. Through hard work and determination, he has it in him to be an excellent (and very physical) two-way 2nd liner, which every championship team needs.

What illusions? I merely said that Iginla was thought to have very low potential until he broke out, as a comparison to show that power forwards take along time to develop, and even moreso for Chucko who is a late bloomer.

In all honesty, I have never seen Chucko play outside of a few clips on the internet. I don't know what his potential is. I read some reports pegging him as Brendan Morrow, others as Ryan Smyth, Adam Deadmarsh and Owen Nolan. Only a couple times have I seen him compared to "Iginla, at 19 years old."

I have said many times, I don't have any expectations for Chucko right now. Ask me in 4 years, and I'll let you know.

Just don't try and tell me that you can say that he's peaked now, considering he's been constantly improving.

 

[Phanuthier*]

well to you Donavan > Bertuzzi because of stats, and Its Horcoff> Iginla because of stats too. Dont complain

I never thought Donovan was better then Bertuzzi.

That is clearly a lie.

I'm actually one of the few posters on HF that think Bertuzzi has been given a bad name, and shouldn't have even been suspended at all. I admire Bertuzzi's awsome size and his mammoth ability to drive to the net, although I think his immaturity has cost his team time and time again.

 

[sunb]

Great post. You clearly have no idea about Chucko. On a positive note for Chucko. Their is a good blurb about him on his team's webpage about how last game Chucko took over in the 3rd period and controlled the game for the win. He scored a SH goal and the winner as well.

Before he scored 2 goals in the his 12th game of the season, he didn't have a single goal this year.

 

[sunb]

What illusions? I merely said that Iginla was thought to have very low potential until he broke out, as a comparison to show that power forwards take along time to develop, and even moreso for Chucko who is a late bloomer.

In all honesty, I have never seen Chucko play outside of a few clips on the internet. I don't know what his potential is. I read some reports pegging him as Brendan Morrow, others as Ryan Smyth, Adam Deadmarsh and Owen Nolan. Only a couple times have I seen him compared to "Iginla, at 19 years old."

I have said many times, I don't have any expectations for Chucko right now. Ask me in 4 years, and I'll let you know.

Just don't try and tell me that you can say that he's peaked now, considering he's been constantly improving.

I just saw you make three or four allusions to Iginla in this thread and I just posted to clarify that "offensively," Iginla and Chucko's shouldn't be in the same sentence.

I like Chucko a lot though. Maybe my third favorite player on the Golden Gophers. Hits hard and wears his heart on his sleeve. In the NCAA, he can be a decent 1st liner. But in the NHL, you guys should be happy with 15 goals and 30 points. His peak is 20 / 20. But still a very desirable player overall if he can bring his intangibles up to the next level and translate them on the best stage in the world.

 

[Phanuthier*]

By the way, Kobasew has scored 6 of his 12 points in the last 6 games (he had 6 in 16 before that) - does that make him inconsistent?

Watch Kobasew and you'll see.

Read articles from Lowell last year, and you'll be impressed.

It's not about individual performances, but what you can do for a team. Kobasew does the little things away from the puck that makes his team successful - something Hemsky doesn't do. Kobasew creates chances using his speed (ie. saved many icing calls by beating defenseman tot he puck), he's in the corner battling and he's winning puck battles. I don't see Hemsky do that very often. Kobasew is the type of player I'd want when the game is on the line - Hemsky, on the other hand, I don't know what to expect from him night in and night out. Kobasew took a page out of Iginla's book this season, and has been the leader on the forwards IMO - not Iginla. What makes Iginla so good is he does the little things so well, so refined; that he perserves and wins the little battles and gets into positioning so well. That's what Kobasew does.

You might think "oh, Calgary fan, blindly bashing the Oilers" but you'd be wrong there. Raffi Torres impressed the hell out of me, if I were Kevin Lowe, I'd be building my roster around this guy. Clearly a winner. Shean Horcoff is another guy who I didn't think very much of (eg. "disallusioned Oiler fan thinking his team is the shat") but have come away impressed every time I see these guys. Obviously, Ryan Smyth who is the Candian symbol of a lion's heart. I can accept there are Oiler players who impress me. These guys do the little things, win the little battles, win the puck battles and do the little things right, to win you hockey games. Dispite how "impressive" Hemsky's points look, I don't think he's a guy I'd want on my team when the game's on the line.

 

[Phanuthier*]

I just saw you make three or four allusions to Iginla in this thread and I just posted to clarify that "offensively," Iginla and Chucko's shouldn't be in the same sentence.

I'll let you in on a little secret. After all his scouting reports, after all his young, inconsistant seasons, I had labelled Iginla as a peak 25 goal scorer myself. Almost everyone had. Oiler fans were flocking the Flames board with theri Smyth>Iginla posts, and I was inclined to believe them at the time.

The comparison wasn't about Chucko's upside, it was that you shouldn't make a call on a player like Chucko and write off his potential this early when he is still improving. With his physical assets and character attributes, who knows what a little heart can do.

 

[se7en*]

Horcoff has more points then Iginla, in less games.

Horcoff > Iginla as well, I guess?

So you're saying Hemsky=Horcoff and Kobasew=Iginla? And in the next post you have the gall to call me "ignorant"? It takes alot of chutzpah to call someone ignorant after proclaiming Kobasew and Chucko the next Iginlas!

 

[Phanuthier*]

So you're saying Hemsky=Horcoff and Kobasew=Iginla? And in the next post you have the gall to call me "ignorant"? It takes alot of chutzpah to call someone ignorant after proclaiming Kobasew and Chucko the next Iginlas!

huh?

Where did I say that?

I don't think "ignorant" is the word that describes you if you thats what you read. To be ignorant, you have to be imformed. I'm thinking more of a word where you are informed, but still clueless... I'll let you guess that one.

And I never said either of them were the next Iginla. I used examples to show what these guys did well, compared to what Iginla does. I've explained enough times that you should be able to grasp ahold of one of them. Or else, you fit that word that I referenced to above. If you arn't "ignorant" I'm sure you can figure that one out.

 

[se7en*]

Why? What's that gonna prove?

"Hey, look, a bunch of posters from Hockeys Future think player x is a better then player y. Of coarse, both are in the Western Conference and time zones where most of the games they play are past their bedtime."

I just said I would rather have Kobasew. You think a poll is going to convince me?

Do you think a poll is going to convince you?

Like I said, I'll let you believe that your inconsistant, dime-in-a-dozen, soft Alice Hemsky is a better player then Kobasew, who comes to play every night, can play in all situations, creates chances from his speed and physical play and isn't afraid to drive to the net. I'll also let you believe that Hemsky, who has never won anything in his life, is more valueable then Kobasew, who has come in the clutch as a rookie with Boston in the NCAA being their MVP at the final four, who was Team Canada's MVP at the WJC gold medel game, who was captain and MVP on the Lowell Lockmonsters and the coach's go-to-guy on a team that featuered Eric Staal, and a player who has been to the Stanley Cup finals... over Alice Hemsky, an inconsistant forward who had a bunch of points in the first couple games of a NHL season, and thats as far as his resume goes.

It's not about individual performances - its about what an individual can do for a team. Kobasew is the Flames most consistant forward from the begining of the seaosn to now (heck, getting Iginla going some nights), for a team tied for the division lead. Hemsky can barely float his team into a playoff spot right now.

Convince me of what? Hemsky is flat-out the better player; everyone outisde Calgary knows that.

So what if Kobasew rode on the coattails of Iginla and Kiprusoff who fluked their way to the Stanley Cup Finals. What does that prove? I guess Afanasenkov is better than Crosby because he's been to the finals.

All right, you go on and "let" me believe that Hemsky is the better player!

 

[Cerebral]

Watch Kobasew and you'll see.

Read articles from Lowell last year, and you'll be impressed.

It's not about individual performances, but what you can do for a team. Kobasew does the little things away from the puck that makes his team successful - something Hemsky doesn't do. Kobasew creates chances using his speed (ie. saved many icing calls by beating defenseman tot he puck), he's in the corner battling and he's winning puck battles. I don't see Hemsky do that very often. Kobasew is the type of player I'd want when the game is on the line - Hemsky, on the other hand, I don't know what to expect from him night in and night out. Kobasew took a page out of Iginla's book this season, and has been the leader on the forwards IMO - not Iginla. What makes Iginla so good is he does the little things so well, so refined; that he perserves and wins the little battles and gets into positioning so well. That's what Kobasew does.

Watch Hemsky and you'll see how gifted he is as well.

I've seen almost every game Kobasew has played so far this season and I've been fairly impressed. However, offensively, I'm still not sold on him being a big scorer. His points have come in spurts and a lot of them have been of the garbage variety where any one of 5 players could have gotten credit for it (for an example, check out one his goals against Edmonton).

Kobasew might use his speed to create plays but Hemsky does the same thing. He beat two guys on a rush in Edmonton's 5-1 victory over Nashville and fed to the puck to Smyth for a relatively easy goal. Kobasew might do a lot of the little things right but Hemsky does a lot of the big things. He's still frustrating at times to watch but Edmonton's relative success on the powerplay has been due in large part to Hemsky's work.

I understand the value of a good two-way player and I do like Kobasew's play so far this season but I'd take Hemsky any day of the week.

 

[se7en*]

huh?

Where did I say that?

I don't think "ignorant" is the word that describes you if you thats what you read. To be ignorant, you have to be imformed. I'm thinking more of a word where you are informed, but still clueless... I'll let you guess that one.

And I never said either of them were the next Iginla. I used examples to show what these guys did well, compared to what Iginla does. I've explained enough times that you should be able to grasp ahold of one of them. Or else, you fit that word that I referenced to above. If you arn't "ignorant" I'm sure you can figure that one out.

You implied "Kobasew/Chucko=Iginla" don't try to evade it.

You are officially a laughingstock!

 

[se7en*]

You're severely underrating Hemsky in your critique.

What do you expect?

When all else fails, expect a Flames fan to resort to the usual bashing instead of a convincing argument. Good job, buddy, good job!

 

[Phanuthier*]

Convince me of what? Hemsky is flat-out the better player; everyone outisde Calgary knows that.

Sure. I'll let you humour yourself and believe that.

You better believe that your doing something right if you're named the MVP in all those events that I named above.

Sure more impressive then Hemsky's resume.

 

[se7en*]

I live in Minnesota and I can tell you that Chucko has zero Iginla potential. He is raw but the potential for a 1st line offensive threat is out of his range.

On the Golden Gophers' roster, Chucko's offensive potential is below that Wheeler, Potulny, Kessel, Irmen and Goligoski's. Yes, Goligoski is a defenseman whose maximum potential in the NHL is 40 points. That is where I see Chucko's maximum offensive potential in the NHL - 20 goals and 20 assists.

That isn't an insult at all, Chucko can still become a great character guy. Max potential? A more physical version of Linden. A leader on and off the ice. Probably a great 2nd liner on a championship team if all his intangibles are factored in.

At the same time, he has nowhere near the potential you seem to endow him with in your illusions. He doesn't have Iginla potential. Iginla scored 21 goals and 50 points in the NHL as a 19 year old. Chucko, as a 19 year old, is clipping at a 0.15 gpg and 0.65 ppg in the NCAA. Even a 18 year old Kobasew scored 27 goals and 49 points in 43 NCAA games. You talk about all this competition but the fact is that Chucko is competing for ice-time against 18 year old freshmen like Kessel and Wheeler.

Chucko is raw but I think his offensive ceiling has somewhat expired. He is going to be 20 in three or months and he is 6th on Golden Gophers in scoring. Iginla-potential is non-existant and even Morrow-potential / Smyth-potential is slowly fading out of the picture.

But again, this isn't bad. Chucko can still become a very valuable NHL player. Through hard work and determination, he has it in him to be an excellent (and very physical) two-way 2nd liner, which every championship team needs.

Thanks for the input from someone who isn't blinded by their big red-tinted glasses.

 

[Cerebral]

You implied "Kobasew/Chucko=Iginla" don't try to evade it.

You are officially a laughingstock!

He didn't neccessarily imply that, he simply stated that Chucko has the potential to become a player of that ilk. I personally disagree with this and I don't see Chucko becoming much more than a great third liner and a decent second liner based on reports I've read but it's unfair to write off his potential before his 20th birthday.