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Phanuthier said:Only a couple times have I seen him compared to "Iginla, at 19 years old."
LOL by who? Roger Millions?
Phanuthier said:Only a couple times have I seen him compared to "Iginla, at 19 years old."
Phanuthier said:Watch Kobasew and you'll see.
Read articles from Lowell last year, and you'll be impressed.
It's not about individual performances, but what you can do for a team. Kobasew does the little things away from the puck that makes his team successful - something Hemsky doesn't do. Kobasew creates chances using his speed (ie. saved many icing calls by beating defenseman tot he puck), he's in the corner battling and he's winning puck battles. I don't see Hemsky do that very often. Kobasew is the type of player I'd want when the game is on the line - Hemsky, on the other hand, I don't know what to expect from him night in and night out. Kobasew took a page out of Iginla's book this season, and has been the leader on the forwards IMO - not Iginla. What makes Iginla so good is he does the little things so well, so refined; that he perserves and wins the little battles and gets into positioning so well. That's what Kobasew does.
You might think "oh, Calgary fan, blindly bashing the Oilers" but you'd be wrong there. Raffi Torres impressed the hell out of me, if I were Kevin Lowe, I'd be building my roster around this guy. Clearly a winner. Shean Horcoff is another guy who I didn't think very much of (eg. "disallusioned Oiler fan thinking his team is the shat") but have come away impressed every time I see these guys. Obviously, Ryan Smyth who is the Candian symbol of a lion's heart. I can accept there are Oiler players who impress me. These guys do the little things, win the little battles, win the puck battles and do the little things right, to win you hockey games. Dispite how "impressive" Hemsky's points look, I don't think he's a guy I'd want on my team when the game's on the line.
I don't believe I've ever denied how talented Hemksy is. I live in Edmonton, I get the song and dance about Hemsky. But I just don't think he has the mojo away from the puck to be a good enough player.Cerebral said:Watch Hemsky and you'll see how gifted he is as well.
How do you think Iginla gets most of his goals?Cerebral said:I've seen almost every game Kobasew has played so far this season and I've been fairly impressed. However, offensively, I'm still not sold on him being a big scorer. His points have come in spurts and a lot of them have been of the garbage variety where any one of 5 players could have gotten credit for it (for an example, check out one his goals against Edmonton).
But he doesn't do it consistantly. That's the key. Some nights, Hemsky will look impressive as hell, other days, you'll see him shy away from the corners and other battles for the puck. Look at what supposed "skilled' players like the Sedin twins or Pavel Datsyuk did in the playoffs. Nothing.Cerebral said:Kobasew might use his speed to create plays but Hemsky does the same thing. He beat two guys on a rush in Edmonton's 5-1 victory over Nashville and fed to the puck to Smyth for a relatively easy goal. Kobasew might do a lot of the little things right but Hemsky does a lot of the big things. He's still frustrating at times to watch but Edmonton's relative success on the powerplay has been due in large part to Hemsky's work.
Roger Millions wouldn't know the difference between Ryan Smyth and Jason Smith.Tikk said:LOL by who? Roger Millions?
As opposed to, say, MN_Gopher?Tikk said:Thanks for the input from someone who isn't blinded by their big red-tinted glasses.
Phanuthier said:I'll let you in on a little secret. After all his scouting reports, after all his young, inconsistant seasons, I had labelled Iginla as a peak 25 goal scorer myself. Almost everyone had. Oiler fans were flocking the Flames board with theri Smyth>Iginla posts, and I was inclined to believe them at the time.
The comparison wasn't about Chucko's upside, it was that you shouldn't make a call on a player like Chucko and write off his potential this early when he is still improving. With his physical assets and character attributes, who knows what a little heart can do.
I've been reading Calgarypuck.com since 1998 when Mike Board wrote for them, and they were independent of the message board Fire On Ice (now called Calgarypuck.com). I have also been reading Hockey's Future since 2000, back in the old tree format when you'd get a max number of posts of about 30 posts a day, and you'd have to have "honarary mentions" of a prospect to keep this Hockey's Future.Tikk said:Really? Back in 1996? Hardly anyone had internet, no one knew what a message forum was, thus I doubt that we were just "flocking" to these supposed "Calgary forums" (because a trip through the Wayback Machine shows that the Flames didn't have a message forum until after 2000 and didn't even have a website until 1998)
Ok, if you want to try and disprove that one, how about:Tikk said:And you might wanna ditch the "Yeah well at Kobasews been to the finals!" argument until the Flames make the playoffs consistently.
Hemsky has created chances with his passing and creativity with the puck every game this season...Phanuthier said:Like I said, I'll let you believe that your inconsistant, dime-in-a-dozen, soft Alice Hemsky is a better player then Kobasew, who comes to play every night, can play in all situations, creates chances from his speed and physical play and isn't afraid to drive to the net.
Here's some:I'll also let you believe that Hemsky, who has never won anything in his life
Hemsky has shown up for most, if not all, the games this season... way to completely dismiss this season and focus on the last.over Alice Hemsky, an inconsistant forward who had a bunch of points in the first couple games of a NHL season, and thats as far as his resume goes.
It's not about individual performances - its about what an individual can do for a team. Kobasew is the Flames most consistant forward from the begining of the seaosn to now (heck, getting Iginla going some nights), for a team tied for the division lead. Hemsky can barely float his team into a playoff spot right now.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Hemsky's totals in the stats column have been somewhat inconsistent this season (as have Kobasew's I might add) but he's been working hard pretty much every game he's played. He might not play the body like a guy like Kobasew but he's still trying to make things happen out on the ice.Phanuthier said:Consistantcy is something I value. Maybe's the Flames are all cut from the same cloth, and the fans adapted it well, but I've always been far more impressed with consistantcy, heart, and what a player does away from the puck then what they do with the puck. To me, that is what wins championships. I think the Oilers actually have alot of players that could make some noise in the playoffs (if they make it there) but guys like Hemsky will drag them down IMO.
Feel free to bring this post up at the end of the season. Or in 2 years. If Hemsky proves me wrong, I'll eat my words.Cerebral said:I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Hemsky's totals in the stats column have been somewhat inconsistent this season (as have Kobasew's I might add) but he's been working hard pretty much every game he's played. He might not play the body like a guy like Kobasew but he's still trying to make things happen out on the ice.
There seems to be an unfair stigma that two-way players with a little bit of skill are "heart" players (although Kobasew has more skill than the average grinder) and that skilled players lack that fire. I completely disagree with this - I've seen Hemsky get absolutely levelled trying to get around a few defencemen this season with his fancy stickwork. Does he get rid of the puck the next time contact closes in and avoid getting hit? No, he tries the same move again in an effort to create some offence.
Skilled players can have heart too and it's unfair to label Hemsky as a perimeter player that avoids contact. Is he at times inconsistent with his play? Yes. Does he come out every game trying to put points on the board and fight through some tough hits (see the Cullimore knee on him Saturday night)? Yes as well. If players with his offensive talent are a dime a dozen as you previously stated (he's in the top 30 in the NHL in scoring right now tied with Richards, Palffy, Arnott and Iginla), he must be an incredibly strange dime.
Phanuthier said:I'll also let you believe that Hemsky, who has never won anything in his life.
Nicely played...danny.7i said:Here's some:
- won the Mike Bossy Trophy as the best professional prospect in the QMJHL
- named NHL Rookie of the Month in 2004
- helped Pardubice HC win the Czech Republic League championship and was MVP of the playoffs
- helped the Czech Republic win gold at the 2005 World Championships
Phanuthier said:I'll let you in on a little secret. After all his scouting reports, after all his young, inconsistant seasons, I had labelled Iginla as a peak 25 goal scorer myself. Almost everyone had. Oiler fans were flocking the Flames board with theri Smyth>Iginla posts, and I was inclined to believe them at the time.
The comparison wasn't about Chucko's upside, it was that you shouldn't make a call on a player like Chucko and write off his potential this early when he is still improving. With his physical assets and character attributes, who knows what a little heart can do.
I have to ask, is Kobasew, though?Phanuthier said:Dispite how "impressive" Hemsky's points look, I don't think he's a guy I'd want on my team when the game's on the line.