Proposal: RNH + EDM 2018 1st(+?) for Dumba and Zucker

[Filthy Dangles]

Alas the opportunity to acquire Dumba for RNH passed two summers ago.

I tried arguing we'd have been better off with Hall+Dumba than RNH+Larsson.

Not a lot of Oiler fans agreed with me at the time. A few homers probably still wouldn't...

hindsight is always 2020 but man these are the difference in being a stanley cup team vs not.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Dumba probably worth more than the 9th OA

Ya, given how hard it is to actually get a defender like Dumba, I'd say the Wild are better off not making this deal.

 

[yababy]

So Dumba is a fantastic untouchable player worth way more than any of those guys...until it's time to pay him. Then he's only worth 5 mil.

Dumba is the Wild's best player. Think about that for a moment and then maybe you'll go a bit easier on Wild fans. Would you give up your teams best player?

Exactly, nobody is going to touch Dumbs until they know how much he's gonna cost.
Wild can't afford him on their back end since the top 3 are already at 17M.
Oilers also can't afford to add to the blue line without getting rid of a contract.

These 2 teams are not good trading partners

 

[Bazeek]

Exactly, nobody is going to touch Dumbs until they know how much he's gonna cost.
Wild can't afford him on their back end since the top 3 are already at 17M.

If we can't afford to carry all 4 long term, Dumba's not the guy we dump.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I don't think many would say he's our best player right now. He's not better than Suter or Staal. He's probably not currently better than Spurgeon and I wouldn't put him above Granlund. But he probably slots in just below those guys, and he's only 23. It's the combination of age, performance and overall trajectory that makes us so protective.

So you are saying a 26 year old 60+ point (last two years) winger is better than a 23 year old 50+ point dman? That certainly does not follow what Wild fans are saying.

Also a 28yr old d-man who has worse numbers and is small is better than Dumba? Staal is 34 next season. This will be one of his last good years. Suter is 34 next year and coming off a major injury.

Dumba is your best player. He deserves 6+ easily. Long term he is probably in the 7 range.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Solid picks but not an all star among them. And again, i dont trust this regime to find a star. Other than Brodin’s draft there were stars to be had, Chuck and his staff couldnt find them.

Well, Granlund has only been really good in the idiotic 3v3 all-star format, so I'm not sure holding that against him holds up.

Check out Granlund vs. Tarasenko over the last 2 years.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

So you are saying a 26 year old 60+ point (last two years) winger is better than a 23 year old 50+ point dman? That certainly does not follow what Wild fans are saying.

Also a 28yr old d-man who has worse numbers and is small is better than Dumba? Staal is 34 next season. This will be one of his last good years. Suter is 34 next year and coming off a major injury.

Dumba is your best player. He deserves 6+ easily. Long term he is probably in the 7 range.

He has worse numbers only because he played fewer games. And he's still better and more reliable in his own zone at this point in time, a fairly important aspect of being a defenseman in the NHL.

 

[TaLoN]

So you are saying a 26 year old 60+ point (last two years) winger is better than a 23 year old 50+ point dman? That certainly does not follow what Wild fans are saying.

Also a 28yr old d-man who has worse numbers and is small is better than Dumba? Staal is 34 next season. This will be one of his last good years. Suter is 34 next year and coming off a major injury.

Dumba is your best player. He deserves 6+ easily. Long term he is probably in the 7 range.

referring to Granlund? Yes, Granlund is a better player right now than Dumba. His all around game is so much more compete. Though Dumba COULD still surpass Granlund at some point, just hasn't happened thus far. Granlund and Dumba are the two players Wild fans have CONSISTENTLY said are the only untouchable players.

It's just most people outside Minnesota recognize the value Granlund brings to the Wild and thus don't make trade offers, yet they never recognize the value Dumba has for the Wild, thus repeatedly make offers no matter how often we say he's not available.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

He has worse numbers only because he played fewer games. And he's still better and more reliable in his own zone at this point in time, a fairly important aspect of being a defenseman in the NHL.

The same arguments Wild fans use to shoot down the trade, you then use to prop up your own player.

As an Oiler fan I would take Dumba over Spurgeon any day of the week. I'd also offer a lot more for him. I guess you disagree.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The same arguments Wild fans use to shoot down the trade, you then use to prop up your own player.

As an Oiler fan I would take Dumba over Spurgeon any day of the week. I'd also offer a lot more for him. I guess you disagree.

And that is probably 70-80% due to age, which is a different argument than what I said.

Spurgeon is the better player, right now.

Dumba is the better asset, right now, because he still has upward trajectory.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

referring to Granlund? Yes, Granlund is a better player right now than Dumba. Granlund and Dumba are the two players Wild fans have CONSISTENTLY said are the only untouchable players.

It's just most people outside Minnesota recognize the value Granlund brings to the Wild and thus don't make trade offers, yet they never recognize the value Dumba has for the Wild, thus repeatedly make offers no matter how often we say he's not available.

Ok. That's not what I see when I watch the Wild but you watch them a lot more than I do so I guess you would know.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

And that is probably 70-80% due to age, which is a different argument than what I said.

Spurgeon is the better player, right now.

Dumba is the better asset, right now, because he still has upward trajectory.

No. that's from watching him. Much more dynamic and is more of a physical presence. He's a difference maker. Spurgeon is not.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

No. that's from watching him. Much more dynamic and is more of a physical presence. He's a difference maker. Spurgeon is not.

Well, he's still in the phase of being a difference maker at both ends of the rink, one of them not being a good thing for his team. Though, I will say that those instances are getting fewer and further between.

 

[Bazeek]

So you are saying a 26 year old 60+ point (last two years) winger is better than a 23 year old 50+ point dman? That certainly does not follow what Wild fans are saying.

Also a 28yr old d-man who has worse numbers and is small is better than Dumba? Staal is 34 next season. This will be one of his last good years. Suter is 34 next year and coming off a major injury.

Dumba is your best player. He deserves 6+ easily. Long term he is probably in the 7 range.

Are you arguing that Dumba was our best player this season? Or that he's our most valuable asset right now? Because the ages of these players is only relevant to one of those positions.

 

[Bruce Granville]

Well, he's still in the phase of being a difference maker at both ends of the rink, one of them not being a good thing for his team. Though, I will say that those instances are getting fewer and further between.

Nevertheless Winnipeg sent a thank you card...

 

[ref88]

Ehhhh....

lol what?

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Are you arguing that Dumba was our best player this season? Or that he's our most valuable asset right now? Because the ages of these players is only relevant to one of those positions.

I'm saying that going forward he is your best player unless you think an old d-man coming off a major injury or a 34 year old Staal is going to repeat his season. Dumba's really good.

I understand Wild fans don't want to think like this but eventually you will have to think of retooling. You guys are getting pretty old. When your best players are a 28 yr old 60+ point winger and a 23 yr old dman then a thought of the future might be in order.

I know. Being an Oiler fan I shouldn't talk.

 

[TaLoN]

I'm saying that going forward he is your best player unless you think an old d-man coming off a major injury or a 34 year old Staal is going to repeat his season. Dumba's really good.

I understand Wild fans don't want to think like this but eventually you will have to think of retooling. You guys are getting pretty old. When your best players are a 28 yr old 60+ point winger and a 23 yr old dman then a thought of the future might be in order.

I know. Being an Oiler fan I shouldn't talk.

We have a 28yro 60+ point winger?

 

[Bruce Granville]

We have a 28yro 60+ point winger?

Tyler Ennis will break out next season...wooo!

 

[ThePhoenixx]

We have a 28yro 60+ point winger?

Sorry. Typo. 26 as I stated earlier. Doesn't change my point.

 

[TaLoN]

Sorry. Typo. 26 as I stated earlier. Doesn't change my point.

26, just entering his prime. Not sure how that's bad for the future.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

26, just entering his prime. Not sure how that's bad for the future.

Never mind. It's obvious you have no intention of following the conversation. Have a good day!

 

[Bazeek]

I'm saying that going forward he is your best player unless you think an old d-man coming off a major injury or a 34 year old Staal is going to repeat his season. Dumba's really good.

I understand Wild fans don't want to think like this but eventually you will have to think of retooling. You guys are getting pretty old. When your best players are a 28 yr old 60+ point winger and a 23 yr old dman then a thought of the future might be in order.

I know. Being an Oiler fan I shouldn't talk.

I think you're overestimating how much we don't want to think about retooling

Dumba's very good and I think his best years are ahead of him, he's just not the best player on the team right now. His contract may creep north of $6m, but it seems like it'll be possible to sign him for less than that. I don't have a good list of comparables in front of me to argue the point, though.

 

[ref88]

I think you're overestimating how much we don't want to think about retooling

Dumba's very good and I think his best years are ahead of him, he's just not the best player on the team right now. His contract may creep north of $6m, but it seems like it'll be possible to sign him for less than that. I don't have a good list of comparables in front of me to argue the point, though.

If you get Dumba for less than 50 mil over 8 years that is a bargain.

 

[TaLoN]

Never mind. It's obvious you have no intention of following the conversation. Have a good day!

You said when you're best players are 23 and 26 a thought of the future is in order...i don't see how that's any different than what we've been saying from the beginning that we need a retool, not rebuild, and that those two players are the only true untouchables.

I'm not sure what you're trying to tell us that we haven't been telling everyone from the beginning?