Proposal: RNH + EDM 2018 1st(+?) for Dumba and Zucker

[TaLoN]

Context matters whether you choose to believe it or not. He had a career high in goals with 24 and missed 18 games, had those 48 points and missed 18 games so not just a "50 point" center if we're taking this season into account. You say Dumba is a 50 point Dman but he only had 50 points in one season, had a career high of 34 points this season.

It's great that he had a breakout season and I understand why Wild fans don't want to deal him but his valuation in this thread is out of control. If the Oilers are offering RNH+9th overall, the Wild better add something significant to Dumba, RNH+9th for Dumba alone is insane overpayment and would never be offered in the real world although with Chia you never know.

Either way, there's no deal to be had here that will appease both fanbases so a friendly agree to disagree and we'll all move on.

The Wild aren't trading Dumba, period. Let's end the discussion now. The valuation discussion always goes off the wall because someone asks for a player not available and thinks fair value will get it done.

No, Dumba is not available for fair value, because Dumba is worth more to the Wild than fair value says he would get in return in a market trade.

End the discussion please, Dumba is not being moved, and Wild fans will not add to a trade proposal they have no desire to make in the first place .

 

[2Pair]

Lol

Have fun being stuck in mediocrity with your McDavid value Defenseman

What a joke

You have amazing reading comprehension.

 

[CupofOil]

What's the context of what RNH had to do to get those 24 goals and 48 points? Because a 50 point winger has even less value than a 50 point defenseman.

The context is that he scored those goals and points in 18 less games, did you need to see that in my previous post? Calling him a "50 point" center based on this season is disingenuous. It's like saying that Parise is a 24 point winger.

Again, I get that Dumba is only available for a vast overpayment but lets not act like RNH+9th overall is even remotely realistic.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Go ahead and look at the rest of Dumba's career and tell me what the trends show? Coyle has never been involved in my discussion. Bringing Klefbom into this discussion makes even less sense.

Again, you’re disregarding comparisons because they don’t suit what you prefer to believe.

Klefbom was on the exact same upward trend as Dumba. He had a great year last year and a mediocre one this year. I brought him in to show you that development is not a linear path and expecting Dumba to get better every year isn’t reasonable - especially considering this year was a contract year. Keep that in mind too - it’ll be interesting to see if you still think Dumba is worth that much once he’s making 6 mil over 6 years.

What’s his story in the playoffs? The production seems to completely dry up. Genuinely curious.

I brought Coyle in because you continue to trumpet Dumba as some elite asset based on one year - again, if one year is all that matters then Coyle should be available cheaply, if Dumba’s one excellent year makes his value spike as much as you seem to think.

 

[2Pair]

The context is that he scored those goals and points in 18 less games, did you need to see that in my previous post? Calling him a "50 point" center based on this season is disingenuous. It's like saying that Parise is a 24 point winger.

Again, I get that Dumba is only available for a vast overpayment but lets not act like RNH+9th overall is even remotely realistic.

How many of those points did he score playing on the wing of the best player in the game?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The context is that he scored those goals and points in 18 less games, did you need to see that in my previous post? Calling him a "50 point" center based on this season is disingenuous. It's like saying that Parise is a 24 point winger.

Again, I get that Dumba is only available for a vast overpayment but lets not act like RNH+9th overall is even remotely realistic.

I would much rather move RNH and 9th for Dumba and Coyle or whatever the offer was than accept Dumba + whatever for Draisaitl.

 

[CupofOil]

How many of those points did he score playing on the wing of the best player in the game?

He was already on pace for career highs for the first 45 games or so before he got injured playing with the likes of Lucic and a revolving door of rookies and tweeners on his RW. He was the 2nd best Oiler forward most of the season and this is coming from somebody who was one of his biggest critics prior to this season.

In any event, Dumba is worth more but IMO, I don't think he's worth much more and yes I know that the Wild don't want to deal him. I'm just trying to keep the true value of the two players a little realistic here.

 

[57special]

Nobody in MN cares, or wants, RNH. A soft, middle six C who misses a lot of games due to injury doesn't move the needle for us. Trading for him would only cement the mediocrity. #9oa is nice, but let's not kid ourselves. Odds are that it's a middle six player- maybe- in about 3 or 4 years.

If EDM thinks he's part of their core, fine...keep him. These threads about trading for RNH are not
coming from MN fans.


EDIT- Turns out the #9oa has been pretty damn good over that past ten years...after that it gets pretty bad with the likes of James Sheppard and Mike Rupp. Check out these names;
2017- Rasmussen
2016 -Sergachev
2015 -Meier
2014- Ehlers
2013-Horvat
2012-Trouba
2011- Hamilton
2010- Cowen
2009- Bailey
2008- Couture
2007- Sheppard

If you go to #8oa, or #10oa, it gets pretty pedestrian, with the odd great player

 

[2Pair]

He was already on pace for career highs for the first 45 games or so before he got injured playing with the likes of Lucic and a revolving door of rookies and tweeners on his RW. He was the 2nd best Oiler forward most of the season and this is coming from somebody who was one of his biggest critics prior to this season.

In any event, Dumba is worth more but IMO, I don't think he's worth much more and yes I know that the Wild don't want to deal him. I'm just trying to keep the true value of the two players a little realistic here.

Starting march 3rd Nugent-Hopkins played 16 games to finish the season. He scored 8 goals and 17 points in those 16 games. Connor McDavid had an assist on 7 of those goals. Without RNH moving to McDavids wing, you wouldn't even be able to call him a 50 point player. RNH has played 7 seasons in the NHL and has bested 50 points 3 times, TBH, calling him a 50 point center is a compliment if anything.

 

[Digitalbooya]

@ChaoticOrange

@ManofSteel55

Knows they made a mistake. Calls for backup. Lol, jeezus.

RNH looks to be going into next season with the LW spot with McDavid on lockdown. He is a VERY good player that simply should not be any team’s 1C. He’s a strong 2C and put up a 35-45-80 pace with McDavid. Heck he was on a 60 point pace without him.

Honestly could care less as I don’t want him. You know this. I’ve said it across many threads where you attack Wild fans for having opinions *gasp*. I mean look at your next post:

Wild fans are a complicated bunch. From what I can tell there’s a core group that seem to think that the team only needs an elite 1C and everything else they have is fine and the group of 5-7 key pieces (Like Dumba, Zucker, Coyle, Spurgeon, Suter, Granlund etc) of the Wild should only be moved if it gets them a Draisaitl type and nothing else is of interest as it’s better to be consistently in the playoffs then our recent yo-yo string of crap-a game from the west final-crap.

Then you have another faction that want to hit the big red button and blow it all up as they know the team will never be a cup contender as it’s constructed with contracts like Parise and Suter on the books until 2076. They understand that the team as it’s put together will always be a playoff team but they’ll be stuck in an endless mediocrity loop like the early 2000’s Oilers - never bad enough to get a high pick to get that C they need, but never good enough to truly contend.

Dumba isn’t worth Draisaitl. We know it, they know it, everyone knows it. Dumba and bits and pieces like Nino and Coyle isn’t happening either - again everyone knows that. The problem as far as I can tell is that anything else we could offer like picks and futures makes them worse short term and they’re not interested.

“Bits and pieces like Nino and Coyle.” Dude, how can you call them bits and pieces. Both were 55 point players last year. Both broke their legs this year.

Dumba is worth more than the 9th and RNH is worth more than Zucker.

I think the value is not too far off. I honestly didn't watch enough Wild games this year to really judge Dumba's progression, but based on stats and the word around here, I would be interested in him filling the RD spot beside Nurse and on our powerplay.

I don't see why Minnesota trades Dumba though.

What about RNH makes him more valuable than Zucker? That 80 point pace he did with the most offensively gifted player in the league (which again is just a pace)?

Again, you’re disregarding comparisons because they don’t suit what you prefer to believe.

Klefbom was on the exact same upward trend as Dumba. He had a great year last year and a mediocre one this year. I brought him in to show you that development is not a linear path and expecting Dumba to get better every year isn’t reasonable - especially considering this year was a contract year. Keep that in mind too - it’ll be interesting to see if you still think Dumba is worth that much once he’s making 6 mil over 6 years.

What’s his story in the playoffs? The production seems to completely dry up. Genuinely curious.

I brought Coyle in because you continue to trumpet Dumba as some elite asset based on one year - again, if one year is all that matters then Coyle should be available cheaply, if Dumba’s one excellent year makes his value spike as much as you seem to think.

Coyle is different than Dumba though. Dumba is a #7 overall pick doing what he was projected to do. Sure, everything isn’t linear but I think it’s fair to expect 40+pts next year.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Nobody in MN cares, or wants, RNH. A soft, middle six C who misses a lot of games due to injury doesn't move the needle for us. Trading for him would only cement the mediocrity. #9oa is nice, but let's not kid ourselves. Odds are that it's a middle six player- maybe- in about 3 or 4 years.

If EDM thinks he's part of their core, fine...keep him. These threads about trading for RNH are not
coming from MN fans.


EDIT- Turns out the #9oa has been pretty damn good over that past ten years...after that it gets pretty bad with the likes of James Sheppard and Mike Rupp. Check out these names;
2017- Rasmussen
2016 -Sergachev
2015 -Meier
2014- Ehlers
2013-Horvat
2012-Trouba
2011- Hamilton
2010- Cowen
2009- Bailey
2008- Couture
2007- Sheppard

If you go to #8oa, or #10oa, it gets pretty pedestrian, with the odd great player

Sheppard? Eh...the only blemish.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I would much rather move RNH and 9th for Dumba and Coyle or whatever the offer was than accept Dumba + whatever for Draisaitl.

Of course you would. It’s stupid for Minnesota to even entertain.

 

[57special]

He was already on pace for career highs for the first 45 games or so before he got injured playing with the likes of Lucic and a revolving door of rookies and tweeners on his RW. He was the 2nd best Oiler forward most of the season and this is coming from somebody who was one of his biggest critics prior to this season.

.

So, RNH is better than Draisaitl, or McDavid? Because the latter two walk on water, according to EDM fans, so this RNH fella must be pretty good.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

sorry, no, please end thread, Dumba is a non - starter. He's not being moved.

Granlund and Dumba are the two truly untouchable players.

have fun with that

 

[TaLoN]

have fun with that

Thank you, I will.

 

[Digitalbooya]

have fun with that

Fun with keeping our best offensive facilitators? We will.

 

[57special]

Sheppard? Eh...the only blemish.

well, Cowen...Bailey was maligned for a long time in NYI, then he blew up last year.

 

[Remember2004]

Interesting deal that I would probably consider. Dumba would be a great fit on the Oilers, but trading RNH hurts, since he's shown some great chemistry with McDavid recently. Would Puljujarvi work instead? Or Strome + Bear + 2nd?

Solid Offer.

Is this the new Ryder +Halak +2nd? This is literally the same proposal for Gallagher LMAO

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So, RNH is better than Draisaitl, or McDavid? Because the latter two walk on water, according to EDM fans, so this RNH fella must be pretty good.

The latter two are more valuable than any single piece that the Wild possess. Most Wild fans would agree with that. RNH is very good. You’ll find most Oiler fans don’t relish the idea of moving him considering how shallow our forwards are.

It’s after that our team goes to crap.

Absolutely unmovable: McDavid
Only moving if it gets us a proven, prime aged #1 D with term (the Goldilocks deal, I believe you’d put Dumba in this category, for better or worse) Drai, Nurse
Not much sense moving - RNH, Larsson, Khaira
Bad year, shouldn’t sell low - Klefbom, Benning, Sekera, Talbot, Kassian
Oh god help - Lucic, Russell
Young and meh - Strome, Caggiula, Slepyshev
High end young assets - #9 overall, Yamamoto, Puljujarvi

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Is this the new Ryder +Halak +2nd? This is literally the same proposal for Gallagher LMAO

Same poster if I’m not mistaken

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Knows they made a mistake. Calls for backup. Lol, jeezus.

Honestly could care less as I don’t want him. You know this. I’ve said it across many threads where you attack Wild fans for having opinions *gasp*. I mean look at your next post:

“Bits and pieces like Nino and Coyle.” Dude, how can you call them bits and pieces. Both were 55 point players last year. Both broke their legs this year.

What about RNH makes him more valuable than Zucker? That 80 point pace he did with the most offensively gifted player in the league (which again is just a pace)?

Coyle is different than Dumba though. Dumba is a #7 overall pick doing what he was projected to do. Sure, everything isn’t linear but I think it’s fair to expect 40+pts next year.

Going for groceries. Will respond to novel when I’m back, haha.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

well, Cowen...Bailey was maligned for a long time in NYI, then he blew up last year.

So, Cory Schneider in 2013 got traded for a 9th OA. Can we say Schneider's value is equal to Dumba's? That might be a good measuring stick.

 

[IceBoxHockey]

Wild fans are a complicated bunch. From what I can tell there’s a core group that seem to think that the team only needs an elite 1C and everything else they have is fine and the group of 5-7 key pieces (Like Dumba, Zucker, Coyle, Spurgeon, Suter, Granlund etc) of the Wild should only be moved if it gets them a Draisaitl type and nothing else is of interest as it’s better to be consistently in the playoffs then our recent yo-yo string of crap-a game from the west final-crap.

Then you have another faction that want to hit the big red button and blow it all up as they know the team will never be a cup contender as it’s constructed with contracts like Parise and Suter on the books until 2076. They understand that the team as it’s put together will always be a playoff team but they’ll be stuck in an endless mediocrity loop like the early 2000’s Oilers - never bad enough to get a high pick to get that C they need, but never good enough to truly contend.

Dumba isn’t worth Draisaitl. We know it, they know it, everyone knows it. Dumba and bits and pieces like Nino and Coyle isn’t happening either - again everyone knows that. The problem as far as I can tell is that anything else we could offer like picks and futures makes them worse short term and they’re not interested.

You can keep calling Nino, Coyle, and Zucker spare pieces all you want but that doesn’t make it true. You’ve gone out of your way multiple times to say that, plus take other shots at Wild fans and it’s getting tiring.

I would say most Wild fans are pretty reasonable with the value of their players. We know Dumba + whatever isn’t going to get us Draisitli but it’s the only thing that makes senses if we are trading with EDM. There are other teams out there that could beat any realistic offer the Oilers could make but even then I don’t see it happening.

We have waited patiently for years with Dumba and now that he is finally tapping into his offensive potential (something we desperately need) it doesn’t do us any good to trade him away for futures or lesser players. We need more players like him, not less. Now, a deal for Brodin would be much easier for EDM to get.

 

[McAsuno]

Ok, you want Dumba, put McDavid on the table and we'll talk, otherwise, no conversation to be had.

LMFAO, in what kind of world does Dumba = McDavid for a trade?
That's by far one of the most silliest comments I've seen on here. Holy cow.

 

[Digitalbooya]

So, Cory Schneider in 2013 got traded for a 9th OA. Can we say Schneider's value is equal to Dumba's? That might be a good measuring stick.

Blah, that’s a weird comparison. Schneider is a fantastic goalie. Not sure how you can compare a dman to a goalie though.