Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

[Discoverer]

And I have a really strong feeling the Jays will end up with Dee Gordon by the time the offseason is over.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

And I have a really strong feeling the Jays will end up with Dee Gordon by the time the offseason is over.

What position is he playing opening day?

 

[Eyedea]

I actually wouldn't doubt a trade like Gordon either. Move a guy that's going to be R5 eligible (Pentecost, McGuire, Greene, whatever), and acquire a more stable option for 2B. It also makes the bench deeper, and you can finally expect them to punt Goins in that case. Platoon Gordon/Travis, whoever gets hot takes it, and if they're both hot then you can test them in left.

 

[BlueForever75]

Gordon can play center as well. Which also takes care of your leadoff hitter. Move Pillar to corner OF spot. If Travis gets hurt you have Gordon to cover at 2B too. Good pickup, make it happen

 

[Starry Knight]

Why would you move one of the best defensive centre fielders in baseball to the corners to have a second basemen play there? Just have Gordon play left if you want him in the outfield.

 

[BlueForever75]

Gordon has CF experience. And Pillar played phenomenally in LF when he started out there. Gives us great D. Sign a power bat for other OF spot. With Hernandez as your 4th OF which can play all 3 OF spots

 

[Eyedea]

Gordon has CF experience. And Pillar played phenomenally in LF when he started out there. Gives us great D. Sign a power bat for other OF spot. With Hernandez as your 4th OF which can play all 3 OF spots

His OF experience is limited to like ~10 winter league games from five years ago. We don't know how capable he is of taking efficient routes in CF. At least in a corner (left because his arm isn't great) he can mask his reads and routes with his speed.

 

[BlueForever75]

His OF experience is limited to like ~10 winter league games from five years ago. We don't know how capable he is of taking efficient routes in CF. At least in a corner (left because his arm isn't great) he can mask his reads and routes with his speed.

What ever the case. Trading for him would be very smart

 

[MJ65]

His OF experience is limited to like ~10 winter league games from five years ago. We don't know how capable he is of taking efficient routes in CF. At least in a corner (left because his arm isn't great) he can mask his reads and routes with his speed.

What's your take on this off season for the Jays - haven't heard much

Is there any thing to look forward to?

 

[BlueForever75]

What's your take on this off season for the Jays - haven't heard much

Is there any thing to look forward to?

If they can make a couple of signings and a couple of trades to shake up this team it would be great.

Been hearing SP depth, utility player, OF and possible backup catcher.

 

[zeke]

What's your take on this off season for the Jays - haven't heard much

Is there any thing to look forward to?

I recommend low expectations.

 

[Discoverer]

What position is he playing opening day?

Depends on the health of the current middle infielders.

 

[Eyedea]

What's your take on this off season for the Jays - haven't heard much

Is there any thing to look forward to?

Maybe a Stroman extension? Outside of Bruce and Gordon there's not a whole lot of rumours surrounding what the Jays are involved in. Biggest thing they need to get done is acquire (F/A or trade) an OFer and build that bench.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I actually wouldn't doubt a trade like Gordon either. Move a guy that's going to be R5 eligible (Pentecost, McGuire, Greene, whatever), and acquire a more stable option for 2B. It also makes the bench deeper, and you can finally expect them to punt Goins in that case. Platoon Gordon/Travis, whoever gets hot takes it, and if they're both hot then you can test them in left.

I don't think Dee would be very happy with a platoon (especially not with his vesting option). Nor would he be interested in a move to the outfield at this stage of his career. Not that his feelings matter, or he has a no trade, but happy players tend to play better. Ideally he'd be interested in being a super utility guy, but I imagine that's far fetched.

Depends on the health of the guys middle infielders.

I get it. But if Tulowitzki and Travis are healthy, who is playing LF\DH?

 

[Discoverer]

I get it. But if Tulowitzki and Travis are healthy, who is playing LF\DH?

One of Travis or Gordon.

With the injury concerns around Tulo and Travis, I think it would be smart of the Jays to acquire someone who you would be comfortable starting at SS or 2B 150 games per year. That kind of thing is almost always a luxury teams can't afford, but the Jays situation at the position isn't normal, and it makes it important to not just have major league calibre depth pieces but someone you can count on to perform at at least a league average level.

If that results in some uncertainty around who plays where when everyone's healthy, I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

One of Travis or Gordon.

With the injury concerns around Tulo and Travis, I think it would be smart of the Jays to acquire someone who you would be comfortable starting at SS or 2B 150 games per year. That kind of thing is almost always a luxury teams can't afford, but the Jays situation at the position isn't normal, and it makes it important to not just have major league calibre depth pieces but someone you can count on to perform at at least a league average level.

If that results in some uncertainty around who plays where when everyone's healthy, I don't have a problem with that.

Fair enough. I don't hate the option, and I agree its ideal (if Dee can still play a passable shortstop) if all parties are on board. They are all under team control through atleast 2020 IIRC, so its worth ensuring that its not a contentious situation.

I guess the next question is the acquisition cost, and whether $10-13MM is best allocated on such a player.

 

[Discoverer]

Fair enough. I don't hate the option, and I agree its ideal (if Dee can still play a passable shortstop) if all parties are on board. They are all under team control through atleast 2020 IIRC, so its worth ensuring that its not a contentious situation.

I guess the next question is the acquisition cost, and whether $10-13MM is best allocated on such a player.

I don't really have a problem with the salary assuming the acquisition cost is basically a depth prospect or two. I get the impression the Marlins are far more interested in clearing his salary than in getting a good return.

 

[zeke]

For me, I always gamble on upside.

So I gamble that Tulo/Travis will be mostly healthy. Because if they're not, we're toast anyways no matter who we sign to back them up.

What we should do is sign Darvish.

 

[TF97]

Gordon can play center as well. Which also takes care of your leadoff hitter. Move Pillar to corner OF spot. If Travis gets hurt you have Gordon to cover at 2B too. Good pickup, make it happen

Why would you move Pillar out of CF when he is one of the best defenders at a prime position in favour of a guy who has minimal CF experience? Besides, even if Gordon can play the outfield, just stick him in left where he can act as a Revere type of defender.

 

[Discoverer]

Yep. "Sign whoever is going to get the biggest contract" is always the right answer.

 

[zeke]

"pay $15m x yrs for a utility guy" is definitely the better option.

 

[Discoverer]

"pay $15m x yrs for a utility guy" is definitely the better option.

$13 million, but more importantly, the "utility guy" in question has been worth an average of 3.1 fWAR over the last four years.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I don't really have a problem with the salary assuming the acquisition cost is basically a depth prospect or two. I get the impression the Marlins are far more interested in clearing his salary than in getting a good return.

Its a heavy ticket for what he contributes. But I agree, I eat it if the acquisition cost is something soft (i.e. Richard Urena). I mentioned in here before the Marlin I want most (outside of the obvious Yelich\Ozuna\Realmuto; who are a combination of too expensive in terms of assets, and flat out unavailable) is Dietrich. He's got sneaky Ben Zobrist written all over him.

For me, I always gamble on upside.

So I gamble that Tulo/Travis will be mostly healthy. Because if they're not, we're toast anyways no matter who we sign to back them up.

What we should do is sign Darvish.

If we're gambling on upside (i.e. the top-4 in the rotation are healthy) then I'm not sure the funds spent on him couldn't be best used elsewhere. If I'm spending ~$25MM on Darvish over five years, I might as well spend ~$22MM on Martinez for five years.

 

[rent free]

one of the greatest pitchers of this generation. R.I.P

 

[ShaneFalco]

Ten free-agent targets for the Blue Jays - Article - TSN

This free-agent class – similar to last year’s when they added Kendrys Morales, Steve Pearce and not much else of consequence – isn’t a great one, but there are some interesting options at various price points.
Here are 10 potential targets:
SP Hideaki Wakui
Age: 31
2017 salary: $2.2 million
Stats: 5-11, 25 starts, 158 IP, 6.6 K/9, 3.0 BB/9, 3.99 ERA
Wins Above Replacement: N/A
Wakui travelled to the World Series, and, according to the Japan Times, his “heart overflowed with all kinds of emotion,” and reaffirmed the right-hander’s desire to pitch in the majors.
He’s not the high-profile Japanese player out there - that’s Shohei Ohtani - but he could represent an interesting back-end-of-the-rotation option at a decent price.
The Jays have scouted Japan extensively over the past few years.
SP Michael Pineda, New York Yankees
Age: 29
2017 salary: $7.4 million
Stats: 8-4, 17 starts, 96.1 IP, 8.6 K/9, 2.0 BB/9, 4.39 ERA
Wins Above Replacement: 1.1
This would be a move with an eye towards 2019.
Pineda was well on his way to finding a lucrative deal this winter, until his UCL gave out mid-summer, requiring Tommy John surgery in July.
With Pineda likely sidelined for all of 2018 — a TJ surgery comes with a 12-14 month timeline — a two-year deal would give any team signing him a legit mid-rotation option for 2019, something that may interest the Jays with Marco Estrada and J.A. Happboth currently set for free agency.
Pineda has a 3.35 career ERA at Rogers Centre in seven starts.
C Alex Avila, Chicago Cubs
Age: 31
2017 salary: $2 million
Stats: .264/.387/.447 with 14 HR, 0 SB in 376 plate appearances
Wins Above Replacement: 2.5
There aren’t a whole lot of highly interesting options on the backup catcher market, but Avila is coming off an excellent season offensively – aided by a .382 BABIP – and has always been capable defensively.
He also bats left-handed and is one of the younger options available heading into his age-31 season.
Avila will have a number of suitors, however, and will likely be able to find more playing time than he’d get behind Russell Martin.
Either way, the Jays need to do better than last year when they waited out the market and ended up with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who was released a month into the season, starting a revolving door behind Martin.
OF Jay Bruce, Cleveland Indians
Age: 30
2017 salary: $13 million
Stats: .254/.324/.508 with 36 HR, 1 SB in 617 plate appearances
Wins Above Replacement: 2.7
Rumoured for a couple of years to be a Blue Jays’ trade target, Bruce is now a free agent and reports have him seeking a deal in the range of $80-$90 million.
That type of commitment might be a stretch, but about half that seems like a more realistic ballpark.
Bruce doesn’t offer much defensively or on the basepaths, and he seems like exactly the type of player the Jays need to stay away from, but he would provide a left-handed power bat from a corner outfield spot.
SP Tyler Chatwood, Colorado Rockies
Age: 28
2017 salary: $4.4 million
Stats: 8-15, 25 starts, 147.2 IP, 7.3 K/9, 4.7 BB/9, 4.69 ERA
Wins Above Replacement: 1.1
The Blue Jays have shown an interest in pitchers with extreme groundball rates, and Chatwood is just that, inducing worm-burners 58.1 per cent of the time to sit sixth in all of baseball among starters with at least 100 innings.
Getting out of Coors would obviously benefit Chatwood, as his ERA at home last season was 6.01 compared to 3.49 on the road.
SP Alex Cobb, Tampa Bay Rays
Age: 30
2017 salary: $4.2 million
Stats: 12-10, 29 starts, 179.1 IP, 6.4 K/9, 2.2 BB/9, 3.66 ERA
Wins Above Replacement: 2.4
Cobb would qualify as an impact starter since he’s going to command a significant investment and will have just about every deep-pocketed contender in the mix.
He’s also attached to draft pick compensation thanks to the qualifying offer the Rays issued the right-hander.
After missing most of 2015 and 2016 due to Tommy John, Cobb was solid in his first full season back, and will lead the second tier of free-agent arms behind Yu Darvish and Jake Arrieta.
Andrew Cashner is another name to keep an eye on.
RP Mike Minor, Kansas City Royals
Age: 30
2017 salary: $4 million
Stats: 6-6, 6 saves, 77.2 IP, 10.2 K/9, 2.6 BB/9, 2.55 ERA
Wins Above Replacement: 2.1
The bullpen isn’t Atkins’ biggest need and he’s likely to trawl the scrap heap like he did last year with Joe Smith, but Minor represents an elite lefty who could pair with Roberto Osuna to form a shutdown duo at the back end of the bullpen.
Another successful reclamation project by the Royals, Minor was closing by the end of the season with his fastball/slider combo.
Jake McGee and Tony Watson are other left-handed possibilities.
INF Eduardo Nunez, Boston Red Sox
Age: 30
2017 salary: $4.2 million
Stats: .313/.341/.460 with 12 HR, 24 SB in 491 plate appearances
Wins Above Replacement: 2.2
The super-utility player has become a necessity, evidenced by the Chicago Cubs’ use of Ben Zobrist on their way to a World Series last year and the Houston Astros having Marwin Gonzalez this year.
Not only would Nunez provide some much-needed versatility for John Gibbons, he’d be able to step in and start if injuries strike at short (270 career games), third (248 games), second (25 starts last year), and even play some outfield if needed.
OF Carlos Gonzalez, Colorado Rockies
Age: 32
2017 salary: $20 million
Stats: .262/.339/.423 with 14 HR, 3 SB in 534 plate appearances
Wins Above Replacement: -0.2
His numbers have slipped three years in a row — from a 116 wRC+ in 2015 to 110 to 84 this past season — but Gonzalez represents an interesting buy-low option.
A move to the American League would allow CarGo to slip into the DH role occasionally, and get him away from the expansive Coors Field grass.
If he’s willing to take a one-year deal in order to attempt to rebuild his value, Gonzalez could end up being a huge bargain.
Teams may be scared off by his decline and the Coors effect, but Rogers Centre is a pretty good place to hit, too, and he should be less expensive than the $18 million the Blue Jays gave Jose Bautista last year to be one of the least productive outfielders in baseball.
OF Lorenzo Cain, Kansas City Royals
Age: 31
2017 salary: $11 million
Stats: .300/.363/.440 with 15 HR, 26 SB in 645 plate appearances
Wins Above Replacement: 4.1
Sure, he’s attached to draft pick compensation thanks to the qualifying offer, but the Jays were willing to surrender a draft pick for Dexter Fowler last year, and Cain is a similar player.
There aren’t many opportunities to add a speed/power combo like this in free agency, and since the Jays pushed hard for Fowler, only to come up short, Cain makes sense a year later since the team needs are the same.
He’d immediately upgrade the top of the lineup and his defence would look good anywhere in the Rogers Centre outfield.