Retool or Rebuild if JT leaves and what would you do?

[steveat]

Bozak's name hasn't come up in a while..Signing him and Stastny would be nice. We'd actually be ok and I think Stas knows that not very many teams will want to sign longer than 4 years

 

[BelovedIsles]

Here we go with the Stastny talks. Misery begets misery. All the Isles would be doing is treading water, while being 6 inches under the surface. This team needs to retain Tavares and add appropriate pieces/coaching or else it's pretty much doom. You can't compete with the powerhouses in the conference with a cobbled together Filppula/Stastny/Komarov/Cole/Vrbata/Marooon whoever. This is the kind of thinking that people are ****ing grilling Snow for having.

People are being realistic. Reality is that JT is probably moving along. So what’s plan B then. A hodge podge of fillers.

I think there’s more of a likelihood at acquiring talent via trade; that’s why I’d dangle a first rounder and a few of those seconds for a 2C, top 4 D, or starter.

If they are retooling you use (most of) those picks to improve the club now; if they are rebuilding, use them to draft.

 

[Hunn]

This team as currently constructed is not as bad as the last season indicates, despite finishing 17 points out. Apart from well-known anchors (Clutterbuck, Greiss, Ladd), Nelson, and fillers (like Fritz, Pelech, Prince, etc), the only player I would like to trade is Leddy. Simply because I see him redundant and good enough to flip for better needs (and I can be wrong of course).

The forward corps already provide one of the best offense in the league, minus JT they drop to somewhere in 10-15 range, not bad pole position to start. The problem is defense and goaltending, and defense can be solved by shrewd management and adequate coaching.

This team needs a change of culture and professional coaching, that's all. So my verdict: retool.

 

[Richie Daggers Crime]

If they are retooling you use (most of) those picks to improve the club now; if they are rebuilding, use them to draft.

I hear ya. I just am thinking that the "retooling" with Ian Cole and Filpulla or whoever the f*** type thing just gets you nowhere. I mean, people were clamoring for Jussi f***ing Jokinen in March. Teams need a vision, an identity and a plan to be successful. This cobbling together of cast-offs in their mid-30s patchwork just isn't gonna work. But, Isles fans are conditioned to not only accept it, but consider it the norm. The team needs retooling WITH Tavares. If Tavares goes and Snow sticks around, it's gonna be pretty bleak.

 

[BelovedIsles]

I hear ya. I just am thinking that the "retooling" with Ian Cole and Filpulla or whoever the **** type thing just gets you nowhere. I mean, people were clamoring for Jussi ****ing Jokinen in March. Teams need a vision, an identity and a plan to be successful. This cobbling together of cast-offs in their mid-30s patchwork just isn't gonna work. But, Isles fans are conditioned to not only accept it, but consider it the norm. The team needs retooling WITH Tavares. If Tavares goes and Snow sticks around, it's gonna be pretty bleak.

I’d much prefer to retool with better talent. Having proper management would help. A good GM will find that talent and not settle for castoffs ala Jokinen.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Have to retool. Can't waste Barzal like we did Tavares. Can't do anything until new management though!!!

 

[Glory Days]

Retool with what? The free agent class isn't very good and teams can't retool with 35 year old players. The team doesn't have a deep prospect pool to trade from in order to retool. I think we are facing a rebuild. The good news is there are a few players to rebuild around. The bad news is there is nobody to lead the rebuild. I think Lou L is more important if JT leaves. If JT stays the team will be pretty much set for the next few years with a few exceptions. If JT leaves we need someone to get rid of a few bad contracts and to help with drafting and development. There will be a lot of heavy lifting.

 

[hoser14]

If the Isles allow JT to walk away for NOTHING!!!! Then it's probably time to either move or fold the team. This nonsense has to end, no competent professional sports franchise would be run this way. An unsigned JT was a dark cloud this season, JT should have been either re-signed last or traded last summer.

There isn't much after Barzal, Beauvillier, Eberle and Lee, and Lee isn't staying if JT walks. This teams needs a goalie, a 3rd line center, a 2nd pair defensemen if DeHaan walks. The rest are deposable junk.

Without JT, the future doesn't look good and doesn't matter if Snow and Dead Weight are replaced, who's going come here?

It might take another generation if ever to right this mismanaged mess.

 

[IslesNorway]

If JT leaves we are somewhere in between a retool and a rebuild. We have good nucleus of young(-ish) players who can play a big part for many years still (Barzal, Beauvillier, Lee, Pulock, Leddy, Pelech) along with some good prospects (Ho-Sang, Toews, Bellows, Sorokin) who could do very well in time, so no total rebuild is needed. However, until the new arena is built attracting free agents will be hard, so acquiring players through trades or building through the draft is essential. If we can stack up a few picks in the upcoming draft and maybe use one or two picks to trade for a good player, that could be smart.

 

[Poliz24]

If JT leaves, I really think Garth is out. If that happens, I honestly wouldn't be too upset with it. Yes I love JT like the most of us here.. But Garth is responsible for building a team around JT, which resulted in one playoff series win. As much as players win you games, we need a new Identity and direction from the top.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Re-tool? Bozak, Statsny, blah

Re-build? Trade Eberle, Lee, Leddy

Stop caring? Priceless

 

[Sparksrus3]

Our team with JT was good enough to be 17 points out of a tie with Columbus and New Jersey for the 8th spot. Lee career year,Bailey career year , Barzal rookie of the year, Tito great second half, Eberle 59 points.. Will all these guys have even better years next year ? We certainly will not be a playoff team next season with or without JT. Our D is just horrible and while Hickey leaving seems to be ok with our fans the D will be much worse without him .Please let's not sign any more Andrew Ladd types . Any one with talent is not signing here as ufa. Even if JT signs this is still a disfunctional team.
How about re tool the team and rebuild the coaching / front office

 

[YearlyLottery]

Our team with JT was good enough to be 17 points out of a tie with Columbus and New Jersey for the 8th spot. Lee career year,Bailey career year , Barzal rookie of the year, Tito great second half, Eberle 59 points.. Will all these guys have even better years next year ? We certainly will not be a playoff team next season with or without JT. Our D is just horrible and while Hickey leaving seems to be ok with our fans the D will be much worse without him .Please let's not sign any more Andrew Ladd types . Any one with talent is not signing here as ufa. Even if JT signs this is still a disfunctional team.
How about re tool the team and rebuild the coaching / front office

Your post just screams it was not 100% a roster issue but a coaching issues as well.

 

[majormet]

I think if Weight is coaching and we don't get a #1 goalie and JT leaves and our defense is the same cast of characters, we will be a sub 70 point team for sure.

The choice for the Isles is very binary... if they sign JT they have to make a cup run now and trade some futures for either a top 4 dman or a goalie.

If JT is gone, team is going to be bad and can probably send off Nelson, Lee etc.. and tank

 

[NC 1972]

Why would anyone with talent choose to come to the Islanders if they controlled their own destiny? I mean seriously, terrible culture horrific management being a nomad for the next 3-5 years these are the reasons Tavares is on the brink of leaving are they not. And should he choose to leave that shock wave echo's through out the league and only the desperate looking to cash in on a final paycheck will seek out the NYI.

 

[Hunn]

Our team with JT was good enough to be 17 points out of a tie with Columbus and New Jersey for the 8th spot. Lee career year,Bailey career year , Barzal rookie of the year, Tito great second half, Eberle 59 points.. Will all these guys have even better years next year ? We certainly will not be a playoff team next season with or without JT. Our D is just horrible and while Hickey leaving seems to be ok with our fans the D will be much worse without him .Please let's not sign any more Andrew Ladd types . Any one with talent is not signing here as ufa. Even if JT signs this is still a disfunctional team.
How about re tool the team and rebuild the coaching / front office

I actually disagree. With forward corps being not worse than last year, with improvements on D (probably even from within), and most importantly with PROFESSIONAL COACHING STUFF – this team can make playoffs with JT and probably-possibly even without JT.

 

[seafoam]

Our team with JT was good enough to be 17 points out of a tie with Columbus and New Jersey for the 8th spot. Lee career year,Bailey career year , Barzal rookie of the year, Tito great second half, Eberle 59 points.. Will all these guys have even better years next year ? We certainly will not be a playoff team next season with or without JT. Our D is just horrible and while Hickey leaving seems to be ok with our fans the D will be much worse without him .Please let's not sign any more Andrew Ladd types . Any one with talent is not signing here as ufa. Even if JT signs this is still a disfunctional team.
How about re tool the team and rebuild the coaching / front office

I am of the opinion that having the highest individual player point totals around is not directly correlated to team success.

Yes, you have to be able to score goals, but if the defense is improved (whether that’s through improvement of structure or personnel or both), some of those guys will score less points, but it will lead to more wins.

Obviously there are outliers, like last year’s PIT team going all the way without their most talented D in Letang, but no one team in the league has both Sidney Crosby AND Evgeny Malkin either, and trying to outscore your opponents every game isn’t exactly a recipe for sustained success (just ask Doug Weight).

If having the highest individual player point totals was supremely correlated to success, I think all those late-2000’s Caps teams would have gotten their Cup by now.

I’m not trying to single you out and harp on you, just stating that I’d take a dip in points if it meant the team was able to execute an air-tight system on a consistent basis.

 

[Sparksrus3]

I am of the opinion that having the highest individual player point totals around is not directly correlated to team success.

Yes, you have to be able to score goals, but if the defense is improved (whether that’s through improvement of structure or personnel or both), some of those guys will score less points, but it will lead to more wins.

Obviously there are outliers, like last year’s PIT team going all the way without their most talented D in Letang, but no one team in the league has both Sidney Crosby AND Evgeny Malkin either, and trying to outscore your opponents every game isn’t exactly a recipe for sustained success (just ask Doug Weight).

If having the highest individual player point totals was supremely correlated to success, I think all those late-2000’s Caps teams would have gotten their Cup by now.

I’m not trying to single you out and harp on you, just stating that I’d take a dip in points if it meant the team was able to execute an air-tight system on a consistent basis.

The only player I mentioned a point total was Eberle. I think we all figured he was a soft scoring forward that we hoped could get 60 points. He far exceeded my expectations in his overall game. All the other players I thought had career years or a great second half or rookie of the year . Those guys had great seasons as far as I'm concerned. I am not a chart or pie graph guy. Just the eye test for 82 games. JT was not mentioned anywhere in regard to his effort or point total just that we finished 17 points out with him. Even though he had close to his career high in points it was probably one of his more disappointing overall seasons . After the first couple of course before he learned how to stay on his skates . You are focusing on point totals in your post but I surely can see how point totals would come to the forefront . Sure was 2 super lines we had last season. Those boys could light the lamp.

 

[redbull]

i don't think a re-build is realistic. That vision/strategy should have been planned long ago, at this point, having your best asset (potentially) leave for nothing, well, that's a disaster.

The playoffs have been pretty amazing this year, the hockey is superb. For those who think the Islanders are "close" - I just don't see it. There are some nice names on the team, some nice stats, but they were so awful without the puck that I just can't see this group of players being better than this past year.

With a new coach? Maybe. But I'm not optimistic

I watched most of the World Championship games, I thought the Isles looked good in that company. Barzal's style of play still concerns me but his talent/vision is superb, if he can learn to manage the puck and play more responsibly, better defensively, which is possible.

Very excited about Lamoriello, for sure, but still many moves to make. I'm in the "re-tool" group but somehow, need a goalie and 2 defensemen (1, if we re-sign deHaan) - and if JT returns, maybe we can improve a bit.

Nowhere close to what I've seen from Boston, Washington, Tampa, Pittsburgh though.

But things change fast in the NHL. Just ask Gerrard Gallant.

 

[Instant]

I watched most of the World Championship games, I thought the Isles looked good in that company. Barzal's style of play still concerns me but his talent/vision is superb, if he can learn to manage the puck and play more responsibly, better defensively, which is possible.

Really? Because I was following the World Championships too and I definitely wasn't impressed by our guys. After half of the games I couldn't even tell if Bailey was on ice for even one shift, Barzal was scarily inconsistent - he was generating offence in the first few games, but then we saw just too much circling around with a puck and turnovers, Pulock wasn't used much. Beau and Ebs actually did some shit and played well, so kudos to them.

Considering the fact how many Islanders were on that team and that Barzal spend some time playing with Beauvillier and Eberle and had his own PP unit, I expected them to do better, to impact games, to matter, and they didn't. If I had to name 5 best forwards on that team none of them would make that list.

 

[redbull]

Really? Because I was following the World Championships too and I definitely wasn't impressed by our guys. After half of the games I couldn't even tell if Bailey was on ice for even one shift, Barzal was scarily inconsistent - he was generating offence in the first few games, but then we saw just too much circling around with a puck and turnovers, Pulock wasn't used much. Beau and Ebs actually did some **** and played well, so kudos to them.

Considering the fact how many Islanders were on that team and that Barzal spend some time playing with Beauvillier and Eberle and had his own PP unit, I expected them to do better, to impact games, to matter, and they didn't. If I had to name 5 best forwards on that team none of them would make that list.

hm. Maybe your expectations were higher than mine.

Not to start a war on this sensitive Isles board, but I think the regular-season-pts/game-stats are so much over-emphasized when evaluating players we can easily fool ourselves into seeing/expecting "better" when viewing these players in different situations. For example, I think Ryan O'Reilly is a superb hockey player, and he looked really good for Canada. I don't think he's got the stats of what Eberle, Bailey put up recently, but on the same ice/same team, he looks like a better player (queue some advanced stats to prove me wrong....in 3, 2, ....)

Bailey didn't play much, but I thought he was solid. Both defensively and offensively, a bit snake-bitten, but no JT, no top-line minutes, no points. You may argue he didn't "earn" first line minutes but frankly, anyone playing with McDavid IS the first line on that team.

Beauvillier, being a very young player, I felt was the best Isles player in the WC (Lee also good, in a limited way, on the USA team).

I probably expected the most out of Barzal but it seemed like nothing worked for him. Maybe snake-bitten, maybe just a slump, he didn't accomplish anything against the better teams.
I know Pulock was a healthy scratch, speed and defensive play likely a concern, which is understandable.

One thing I kept coming back to, and Ferraro mentioned it on the broadcast in the CAN-SUI game, was how much Bailey's performance (stats) jumped when he's on JT's wing (same for Moulson, Parenteau, Okposo, and others)....and how much Bailey's just not a $5MM player if JT's not there. I'm one of the biggest Bailey fans on this board, I think he's a smart player, good offensively, good defensively but hardly a player who drives play, makes those around him better and I worry about his impact on a non-JT team/line. At $5MM, it might be a huge problem, in a cap-world, when you're paying the 4th line so much already. And maybe the market is what it is and $5MM is the going rate for Bailey - at least he's better than Ladd.

Problem is, when you have to justify the value of any player, but using words like ".....not as bad as...." - then you're already defeated.

But these are Lou Lamoriello's problems now.

Back to the WC not to lose sights of this key point, I thought the hockey was terrible. The ice is just too big, lot of wasted perimeter play from non-scoring areas (that specifically made Barzal look less effective). I think that style of play isn't necessarily best for some players and really god NHL players may not do well in that environment.

 

[Instant]

Not to start a war on this sensitive Isles board, but I think the regular-season-pts/game-stats are so much over-emphasized when evaluating players we can easily fool ourselves into seeing/expecting "better" when viewing these players in different situations. For example, I think Ryan O'Reilly is a superb hockey player, and he looked really good for Canada. I don't think he's got the stats of what Eberle, Bailey put up recently, but on the same ice/same team, he looks like a better player (queue some advanced stats to prove me wrong....in 3, 2, ....)

(I won't even try to pull out the stats for this tournament, not worth fighting with IIHF site, which is awful) That said, I agree on O'Reilly absolutely. He was the one guy that surprised me the most. Very reliable, focused and engaged in the play - chasing opponents, creating chances, playing harder when the team needed it and trying until the end. He really did look good in this tournament.

Bailey didn't play much, but I thought he was solid. Both defensively and offensively, a bit snake-bitten, but no JT, no top-line minutes, no points. You may argue he didn't "earn" first line minutes but frankly, anyone playing with McDavid IS the first line on that team.

Eh, solid fits. He wasn't awful by any means, but he wasn't great either. Though I do want to point out he didn't stay on that first line very long. Completely off topic now, I think the first line was the biggest coaching mistake that Team Canada made. Again and again and again. Changing the players on that line with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins constantly was just ridiculous. Schenn was a black hole, killing any offensive opportunity he got, Jost worked his way up and should've stayed there, there was also Bailey, Schwartz, Eberle for a moment... I think even Beau got his chance for a shift or two. I don't know what was going on, maybe the players were promised they're gonna play with McDavid, so they needed to shuffle them every period. (Yes, I know I'm exaggerating, but it was bad.)

Beauvillier, being a very young player, I felt was the best Isles player in the WC (Lee also good, in a limited way, on the USA team).

Beau was really, really good. I'm happy with him. And also it's a further proof that my theory about him is correct and he's gonna be that solid guy that can adapt to a situation on a spot. Playing center, left wing, right wing, bigger ice, he still looks solid.

Lee was Lee. When you give him a good, playmaking center, he's gonna do well.

I probably expected the most out of Barzal but it seemed like nothing worked for him. Maybe snake-bitten, maybe just a slump, he didn't accomplish anything against the better teams.

Yeah, I don't know what was going on out there with Barzal. For a moment there - first few games - he looked like the second best forward on team Canada (and let's be honest, that's as high as any player could go with McDavid being all McJesus-y almost all the time) and then something stopped working. But he's young, he had an amazing rookie season, was in Europe, all forgiven and forgotten and let's hope he's gonna get his shit together before training camp.

One thing I kept coming back to, and Ferraro mentioned it on the broadcast in the CAN-SUI game, was how much Bailey's performance (stats) jumped when he's on JT's wing (same for Moulson, Parenteau, Okposo, and others)....and how much Bailey's just not a $5MM player if JT's not there. I'm one of the biggest Bailey fans on this board, I think he's a smart player, good offensively, good defensively but hardly a player who drives play, makes those around him better and I worry about his impact on a non-JT team/line. At $5MM, it might be a huge problem, in a cap-world, when you're paying the 4th line so much already. And maybe the market is what it is and $5MM is the going rate for Bailey - at least he's better than Ladd.

Problem is, when you have to justify the value of any player, but using words like ".....not as bad as...." - then you're already defeated.

But these are Lou Lamoriello's problems now.

I was always in the middle about Bailey. He's not as good as some people think but not as bad as others paint him to be. I think he's as important to Tavares as Tavares is to Bailey. Sure, he gets better stats with Tavares, but many, many times I look at that Lee/Tavares/Bailey line on the ice and Bailey is the only one who even tries to play some defence.

That said, after the season that he had a $5M contract is below market value and it's a surprisingly good contract. But yes, on a team with one of the most expensive 4th line in the league, things look different. Maybe Lou will work his magic here.

Back to the WC not to lose sights of this key point, I thought the hockey was terrible. The ice is just too big, lot of wasted perimeter play from non-scoring areas (that specifically made Barzal look less effective). I think that style of play isn't necessarily best for some players and really god NHL players may not do well in that environment.

Maybe you're right. But some of the players were a really positive surprise for me on Team Canada. Jost, O'Rielly, Nugent-Hopkins, Dubois or Parayko did well. The Islanders, not so much. But maybe I just had too high expectations going into that tournament.

EDIT: Oh wow, sorry, I somehow wrote an entire encyclopedia

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Our D is just horrible and while Hickey leaving seems to be ok with our fans the D will be much worse without him .

I am willing to take my chances without Hickey anchoring our defense. What does an anchor do, anyways?

 

[redbull]

(I won't even try to pull out the stats for this tournament, not worth fighting with IIHF site, which is awful) That said, I agree on O'Reilly absolutely. He was the one guy that surprised me the most. Very reliable, focused and engaged in the play - chasing opponents, creating chances, playing harder when the team needed it and trying until the end. He really did look good in this tournament.



Eh, solid fits. He wasn't awful by any means, but he wasn't great either. Though I do want to point out he didn't stay on that first line very long. Completely off topic now, I think the first line was the biggest coaching mistake that Team Canada made. Again and again and again. Changing the players on that line with McDavid and Nugent-Hopkins constantly was just ridiculous. Schenn was a black hole, killing any offensive opportunity he got, Jost worked his way up and should've stayed there, there was also Bailey, Schwartz, Eberle for a moment... I think even Beau got his chance for a shift or two. I don't know what was going on, maybe the players were promised they're gonna play with McDavid, so they needed to shuffle them every period. (Yes, I know I'm exaggerating, but it was bad.)



Beau was really, really good. I'm happy with him. And also it's a further proof that my theory about him is correct and he's gonna be that solid guy that can adapt to a situation on a spot. Playing center, left wing, right wing, bigger ice, he still looks solid.

Lee was Lee. When you give him a good, playmaking center, he's gonna do well.



Yeah, I don't know what was going on out there with Barzal. For a moment there - first few games - he looked like the second best forward on team Canada (and let's be honest, that's as high as any player could go with McDavid being all McJesus-y almost all the time) and then something stopped working. But he's young, he had an amazing rookie season, was in Europe, all forgiven and forgotten and let's hope he's gonna get his **** together before training camp.



I was always in the middle about Bailey. He's not as good as some people think but not as bad as others paint him to be. I think he's as important to Tavares as Tavares is to Bailey. Sure, he gets better stats with Tavares, but many, many times I look at that Lee/Tavares/Bailey line on the ice and Bailey is the only one who even tries to play some defence.

That said, after the season that he had a $5M contract is below market value and it's a surprisingly good contract. But yes, on a team with one of the most expensive 4th line in the league, things look different. Maybe Lou will work his magic here.



Maybe you're right. But some of the players were a really positive surprise for me on Team Canada. Jost, O'Rielly, Nugent-Hopkins, Dubois or Parayko did well. The Islanders, not so much. But maybe I just had too high expectations going into that tournament.

EDIT: Oh wow, sorry, I somehow wrote an entire encyclopedia

The fact that you used the word "encyclopedia" shows your age

I'm in agreement with everything you wrote - I was very impressed with Dubois. I thought he looked really good when the Isles played CBJ earlier in the season, he looked good in the playoffs, and seemed to be even better in the WC. I know he was a high pick and has upside, was seemingly slow(ish) to develop but he's really come on of late.

Big picture. I'm not worried about any of the Isles based on their performance at the WC. My biggest concern is (unfortunately) our (maybe) best player - Barzal. If he's the #1C next year, he's going to have to be much better - despite his tremendous rookie year, and great stats.

 

[Instant]

The fact that you used the word "encyclopedia" shows your age

I'm in agreement with everything you wrote - I was very impressed with Dubois. I thought he looked really good when the Isles played CBJ earlier in the season, he looked good in the playoffs, and seemed to be even better in the WC. I know he was a high pick and has upside, was seemingly slow(ish) to develop but he's really come on of late.

Big picture. I'm not worried about any of the Isles based on their performance at the WC. My biggest concern is (unfortunately) our (maybe) best player - Barzal. If he's the #1C next year, he's going to have to be much better - despite his tremendous rookie year, and great stats.

Okay, now you got me very interested, what that age would be?

You know what, I'm not really that concerned about Barzal. There had to be a moment when he lets go a bit and I'm quite happy it was at the World Championships rather than during the next season. But he's still only 20 years old and making him #1C and in result putting this whole team on his shoulders wouldn't be fair. I think it would be good for him to be sheltered a bit for a year or two - to mature, to develop, to correct some little mistakes in his game. He had an amazing, quite unbelievable rookie season, but that doesn't mean he's all ready to go and to drag this team anywhere.