Red Deer gives players the finger

[Sammy*]

Here's just some the Flames owners:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=harley+hotchkiss+volunteer+&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="Murray+Edwards"+volunteer+&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="Alvin+Libin"+volunteer+&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="Allan+P.+Markin"+volunteer+&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q="Allan+Markin"+volunteer+&meta=

:lol :lol
B & R is hilarious as he keeps on getting pounded but comes back for more

 

[Phanuthier*]

I don't have to do their taxes to know that someone living in a tax haven isn't paying his share of Canadian taxes.

Did you have anything to back this up?

 

[YellHockey*]

Those weren't all donating money.

Read them.

Why don't you read them and point out the relevant links? Or are you just obscuring the fact by pointing to a useless google search?

 

[Phanuthier*]

Why don't you read them and point out the relevant links? Or are you just obscuring the fact by pointing to a useless google search?

Since you are having so much trouble with them, let me hold your hand through a few...

Mr. Hotchkiss has also made great contributions to the health sector as a volunteer. At a time when Alberta's health system was undergoing tremendous change, his leadership and dedication helped raise awareness of the many exciting health initiatives occurring in Calgary, and focused attention on positive outcomes.

and

His volunteer commitments have included the United Way, Calgary Family Service Bureau, the Alberta Paraplegic Association, the Independent Petroleum Association of Canada, and the Michigan State University Foundation Board. He served as governor and vice-chair of the Banff Centre, chair of the Manning Awards Selection Committee and as a governor and chair of the Alberta Governors of the Olympic Trust of Canada.

and

Harley became an officer in the Order of Canada in 1997, and received the Alberta Order of Excellence in 1998. He received an Honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from the University of Calgary in 1996, an Honorary Doctor of Science Degree from Michigan State University in 2000, and a host of other honours. He is the current chairman and a trustee for the Alberta Heritage Research Foundation for Medical Research, and served for six years as governor and two years as vice-chairman of The Banff Centre. He also served for six years as a member and five years as chairman of the Foothills Provincial General Hospital Board of Management, along with a host of other volunteer community efforts too long to list.

and

Mr. Edwards is also active in community affairs as a Director of Canada Olympic Trust and as a member of the Board of Governors of The Council for Canadian Unity, among others.

and

Showing no interest in retirement, Alvin combines a full work schedule with his many volunteer and community service commitments.

and

Alvin Libin is an active community leader who has made enduring contributions to the province, primarily in the areas of health care delivery and research, technology and science research and post-secondary education.

and

Mr. Libin has a strong commitment to the City of Calgary and the Province of Alberta and has provided leadership in various volunteer positions.

Now are you sure none of the NHL owners volunteer?

 

[Phanuthier*]

It's called common sense.

Wow, I didn't know that was common sense. Is this common sense to anyone out there that Eugene Melnyk lives in Barbados and doesn't pay taxes?

Anyone?

 

[kerrly]

It's not hard to be morally superior to a group of NHL owners.

By the way, how many NHL players live in the Barbados to avoid paying taxes?

How many NHL players have ever lost money, let alone taken a risk directly from playing this game?

 

[Marconius]

Since you are having so much trouble with them, let me hold your hand through a few...

Mr. Hotchkiss has also made great contributions to the health sector as a volunteer. At a time when Alberta's health system was undergoing tremendous change, his leadership and dedication helped raise awareness of the many exciting health initiatives occurring in Calgary, and focused attention on positive outcomes.

and

His volunteer commitments have included the United Way, Calgary Family Service Bureau, the Alberta Paraplegic Association, the Independent Petroleum Association of Canada, and the Michigan State University Foundation Board. He served as governor and vice-chair of the Banff Centre, chair of the Manning Awards Selection Committee and as a governor and chair of the Alberta Governors of the Olympic Trust of Canada.

and

Harley became an officer in the Order of Canada in 1997, and received the Alberta Order of Excellence in 1998. He received an Honorary Doctor of Laws Degree from the University of Calgary in 1996, an Honorary Doctor of Science Degree from Michigan State University in 2000, and a host of other honours. He is the current chairman and a trustee for the Alberta Heritage Research Foundation for Medical Research, and served for six years as governor and two years as vice-chairman of The Banff Centre. He also served for six years as a member and five years as chairman of the Foothills Provincial General Hospital Board of Management, along with a host of other volunteer community efforts too long to list.

and

Mr. Edwards is also active in community affairs as a Director of Canada Olympic Trust and as a member of the Board of Governors of The Council for Canadian Unity, among others.

and

Showing no interest in retirement, Alvin combines a full work schedule with his many volunteer and community service commitments.

and

Alvin Libin is an active community leader who has made enduring contributions to the province, primarily in the areas of health care delivery and research, technology and science research and post-secondary education.

and

Mr. Libin has a strong commitment to the City of Calgary and the Province of Alberta and has provided leadership in various volunteer positions.

Now are you sure none of the NHL owners volunteer?

Care to address any of this BRG? Or are you going to disappear to the same plae Messenger ran to when someone brought up the NHLPA tshirts being handed out at the game.

Not meaning to take this to any kind of personal level, but it's posters like you two who seriously undermine the NHLPA position on these boards. Poorly thoughout arguments, kneejerk reactions and unsubstantiated claims

 

[Phanuthier*]

I wouldn't hold my breath that he's coming back for this one

 

[CarlRacki]

Name them and their work.

http://www.ilitchholdings.com/Charity/charity.html

http://www.wdi.bus.umich.edu/About/

http://www.golisanofoundation.org/

http://www.karmanos.org/

http://www.detnews.com/2003/business/0305/20/d01-167040.htm

http://www.columbusfoundation.org/GD/_gd_templates/pages/gdPageSecondary.aspx?page=158

http://www.ohiohealth.com/facilities/mcconnell/about/overview/aboutjohnmcconnell.htm
There's a lot more out there if you want to spend the time researching it. And remember, this is on top of the fact almost every NHL team has its own charitable foundation, as do many of the other companies owned by NHL owners.

 

[Hunter74]

I don't just watch NHL hockey because I'm a fan of the NHL only. I watch it because I love hockey. WHL, AHL, heck, even the guys that play shinny in West Ed I'll stop by.

This wouldn't be a league of no-name players. It would be made up of guys who would cross, AHLers (next best league in North America) and former NHL players who have gone to Europe. This wouldn't be a gong show like the NHLPA attempt, this would actually be legit hockey.

Its so frustrating that these PA groupies cant even acknowledge theres some pretty good talent outside the NHL.

Almost makes posting not worth it. But someones gotta speak up or these Glen Healy clones are gonna take over the joint. Actually I feel like this message board is kinda overran by Pro PA posters. Maybe they were planted here by HF as to create controversy kinda like TSN did with Glen Healy. How else coudl people be so blindly following the NHLPA??

 

[CarlRacki]

Wow, I didn't know that was common sense. Is this common sense to anyone out there that Eugene Melnyk lives in Barbados and doesn't pay taxes?

Anyone?

If his company does business in Canada and the U.S. (and they do) then he pays taxes.

 

[Phanuthier*]

Its so frustrating that these PA groupies cant even acknowledge theres some pretty good talent outside the NHL.

Almost makes posting not worth it. But someones gotta speak up or these Glen Healy clones are gonna take over the joint. Actually I feel like this message board is kinda overran by Pro PA posters. Maybe they were planted here by HF as to create controversy kinda like TSN did with Glen Healy. How else coudl people be so blindly following the NHLPA??

Quite simple, really.

A couple fans of big market teams that want a system that favours only THEIR team, coupled with an moderator(/poster, who shall remain unnamed) who happens to stir up **** for a living in the local paper for a living.

 

[Marconius]

Its so frustrating that these PA groupies cant even acknowledge theres some pretty good talent outside the NHL.

Almost makes posting not worth it. But someones gotta speak up or these Glen Healy clones are gonna take over the joint. Actually I feel like this message board is kinda overran by Pro PA posters. Maybe they were planted here by HF as to create controversy kinda like TSN did with Glen Healy. How else coudl people be so blindly following the NHLPA??

I'm not so much frustrated with ALL the PA posters just the ones that race in, throw around a bunch of inane bs, hide from any kind of legitmate response and then just disappear. I feel more badly for the quality PA posters who get lumped into that group

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Who`s autograph would you rather have, Jarome Iginla`s or Hotchkiss`s?
Who did Oiler fans in the 80s cheer for- Messier or Pocklington?
Who do Leaf fans from the 70s have fonder memories of: Sittler or Ballard?

where would Jarome, Messier or Sittler be without the NHL?

 

[Hawker14]

it's almost like the pro-owner guys think the players should be embarrassed to be a part of the nhlpa and try to hide it.

if i was part of an association that raised the average income of my co-workers by 300% over 10 years I'd be screaming it from rooftops.

so it's okay for nhl teams to publicly support charities, but it's inappropriate for the nhlpa ?

sorry, that argument just doesn't jive with me.

i guess it's easier to hate the players in this dispute since they are more visible and we know how much they make. that's the only reason i can see. or maybe some just relate better to billionaires than millionaires.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

it's almost like the pro-owner guys think the players should be embarrassed to be a part of the nhlpa and try to hide it.

if i was part of an association that raised the average income of my co-workers by 300% over 10 years I'd be screaming it from rooftops.

so it's okay for nhl teams to publicly support charities, but it's inappropriate for the nhlpa ?

sorry, that argument just doesn't jive with me.

i guess it's easier to hate the players in this dispute since they are more visible and we know how much they make. that's the only reason i can see. or maybe some just relate better to billionaires than millionaires.

I dont mind if players make charity tours like this to raise money but please don't give us your PA propaghanda...

for a Jets fans, I thought you'd be litle more sympathetic towards the owners considering you need one if you're ever gonna get a team back...

still bitter about '96?

 

[Hawker14]

I dont mind if players make charity tours like this to raise money but please don't give us your PA propaghanda...

for a Jets fans, I thought you'd be litle more sympathetic towards the owners considering you need one if you're ever gonna get a team back...

still bitter about '96?

well for one, there were enough revenues for the nhl to be a healthy league. $ 2.1 billion split 30 ways is $ 70 million per team.

i don't feel sorry for a billionaire like leopold (nashville) because a billionaire like snyder won't share "hockey" revenues.

if the owners had meaningful revenue sharing amongst themselves, the league wouldn't be in this mess. i guess that's my biggest gripe about the players being expected to assume 100% responsibility for the state of the game and being expected to fix it.

 

[CarlRacki]

if i was part of an association that raised the average income of my co-workers by 300% over 10 years I'd be screaming it from rooftops.

so it's okay for nhl teams to publicly support charities, but it's inappropriate for the nhlpa ?

1. So the NHLPA is responsible for the 300 percent growth in salaries over the past decade? Phew, thanks for clearing that up. And all this time we've been led to believe ti was the owners' doing.
2. Please find me one post condemning the NHLPA for supporting charity (p.s. handing out NHLPA merchandise at a hockey game attended by people who could afford $25 ticket for an exhibition is not charity, it's promotion).

 

[Marconius]

it's almost like the pro-owner guys think the players should be embarrassed to be a part of the nhlpa and try to hide it.

if i was part of an association that raised the average income of my co-workers by 300% over 10 years I'd be screaming it from rooftops.

so it's okay for nhl teams to publicly support charities, but it's inappropriate for the nhlpa ?

sorry, that argument just doesn't jive with me.

i guess it's easier to hate the players in this dispute since they are more visible and we know how much they make. that's the only reason i can see. or maybe some just relate better to billionaires than millionaires.

It's not wrong for the NHLPA to support charitites.This whole thread was because someone claimed that the low fan count at Smyth's event indicated lack of supoort for the NHLPA. Then another poster claimed it wasn't an NHLPA event, it was a charity event. He was easily dismissed by the fact that NHLPA gear had been given out to those fans in attendence, and that the event was indeeed a NHLPA-charity event.

 

[mr gib]

http://www.ilitchholdings.com/Charity/charity.html

http://www.wdi.bus.umich.edu/About/

http://www.golisanofoundation.org/

http://www.karmanos.org/

http://www.detnews.com/2003/business/0305/20/d01-167040.htm

http://www.columbusfoundation.org/GD/_gd_templates/pages/gdPageSecondary.aspx?page=158

http://www.ohiohealth.com/facilities/mcconnell/about/overview/aboutjohnmcconnell.htm
There's a lot more out there if you want to spend the time researching it. And remember, this is on top of the fact almost every NHL team has its own charitable foundation, as do many of the other companies owned by NHL owners.

part of any buisness - tax deductable

 

[Phanuthier*]

it's almost like the pro-owner guys think the players should be embarrassed to be a part of the nhlpa and try to hide it.

if i was part of an association that raised the average income of my co-workers by 300% over 10 years I'd be screaming it from rooftops.

so it's okay for nhl teams to publicly support charities, but it's inappropriate for the nhlpa ?

sorry, that argument just doesn't jive with me.

i guess it's easier to hate the players in this dispute since they are more visible and we know how much they make. that's the only reason i can see. or maybe some just relate better to billionaires than millionaires.

Given some of the crap they spew, yeah I do think they should be embarassed by their union and representatives.

Reality check here... average salary to play a tier 2 sport is $1.8 million? Now thats all fine and dandy, but when you start b*tching and moaning, people will lose respect for you.

Now I do have to admit some of the anti-PA is a little over the top, but thats what happens when the NHLPA pushes hard... the opposing side is pushing back. This time around, though, the fans realize whats at stake (their team's future) to take the usually less-popular side - owners.

If the players union was reasonable, I'd be on their side. Like accepting the fact that they are already overpaid when they get the oppertuinity to split $42.5 million between 23 players, every year. Or maybe demanding their "partnership" with the owners to include things like looking at the owners books, taking shares of revune they helped bring in, have a voice in the say of how to market the team (this is a "partnership" after all).

As for "publically supporting a chairty" ... great, I've seen alot of player do great things in the community. I think its great to see guys giving back to the community that make them who they are. However, advertising YOUR organization (in this case, union) at a charity event is 100% inappropriate. You want to raise money for cancer? Then advertise and market the charity. Have booths and representatives to educate people about cancer. Give away stuff that supports cancer (ie. pink ribbions in suipport of breast cancer). Head shaving (ie. Mike Commodore, kudos to him) is a popular thing. If your playing a game, have a patch supporting the charity (cancer) that your event is about.

Instead, what do they do? Hand out NHLPA caps. At an event thats supposed to be about cancer.

You really wonder why its so easy to critisize them?

 

[Phanuthier*]

well for one, there were enough revenues for the nhl to be a healthy league. $ 2.1 billion split 30 ways is $ 70 million per team.

i don't feel sorry for a billionaire like leopold (nashville) because a billionaire like snyder won't share "hockey" revenues.

if the owners had meaningful revenue sharing amongst themselves, the league wouldn't be in this mess. i guess that's my biggest gripe about the players being expected to assume 100% responsibility for the state of the game and being expected to fix it.

You really want the breakdown? Here's the breakdown: Owners are stupid. Dumb as sh*t. They screwed themselves and they are the reason why the NHL is in the mess they are in. However, what needs to be done is to put a system in place to control this chaos, and it comes at the players expense. So even though you can't blame Ed Before or Bobby Holik or Martin Lapointe or Ilya Kovalchuk for taking the money and laughing all the way to the bank when the owners throw bags of money at their head, THEY are the ones that are going to have to bite the bullet and take the hit. It sucks, but thats what has to be done, and thats what the players have to realize.

 

[AltaHab]

I live just outside RD and never heard about this event until the afternoon of the game from the Fan 960...they sent a couple of people to cover the game. In contrast the oldtimers game was well advertised and they called me three months ago about tickets. The oldtimers always do well in RD. I went a few years ago. Red Story and Rocket Richard (both mic'd) were ref's. The crowd chanted Guy Guy Guy every time he touched the puck. For a old Alberta boy like me it was the only time I got see some of the 70's Habs live and in person. This NHLPA game...couldn't care less.

 

[txomisc]

part of any buisness - tax deductable

It is tax deductable when it isn't business related as well.

 

[leaflover]

They are coming to Regina tomorrow, and i'm going to support what they are doing for charity.

Took a whole page to find someone mature enough to realize this is about charity and not some childish petty vendetta.
Thank you for bringing some sensibility to HF's business boards.