Red Deer gives players the finger

[me2]

if the owners had meaningful revenue sharing amongst themselves, the league wouldn't be in this mess. i guess that's my biggest gripe about the players being expected to assume 100% responsibility for the state of the game and being expected to fix it.

If the price of timber falls, are the lumberjacks "being expected to fix it.". No, the market is correcting.

If the price of iron ore falls, are the mining companies "being expected to fix it.". No, the market is correcting.

Players aren't being expected to fix anything, No, the market is correcting. Markets change, theirs is going through a slump, they'll get paid less.

Even the 24% rollback was the players' idea.

What they used to make is irrelevant to what they can make. New CBA, new deal. Perhaps they should stop painting themselves as the victims and start thinking about how rich they'll be after the new deal.

 

[Steve L*]

Took a whole page to find someone mature enough to realize this is about charity and not some childish petty vendetta.
Thank you for bringing some sensibility to HF's business boards.

Why not contribute to the charity directly then if its all about that? Then no money gets diluted into paying arena costs or staff. Thats the best way the charity can win.

Not supporting the charity and not supporting the tour are 2 totally seperate things, shame you cant realise that.

 

[Aarex]

So write a big fat check to the Canadian Cancer Society and stay home. The charity wins and the big message gets sent to the rightful recipients.

Without charity events (like this) I would not donate money to charity. I'm also willing to bet that at least 85% of the people who come with me also don't donate to charity. Tickets to this event are 12.95 each. That is 13 dollars which will provide me with entertainment for the evening and send money to good causes.

If people could get over the blame game here and come together for a evening that will be a low cost enjoyable one with all the money going to good causes we could make a difference. But so long as all you spartacus's out there remain on this stubborn pole their efforts won't be significant enough to make a difference.

 

[ACC1224]

Without charity events (like this) I would not donate money to charity. I'm also willing to bet that at least 85% of the people who come with me also don't donate to charity. Tickets to this event are 12.95 each. That is 13 dollars which will provide me with entertainment for the evening and send money to good causes.

If people could get over the blame game here and come together for a evening that will be a low cost enjoyable one with all the money going to good causes we could make a difference. But so long as all you spartacus's out there remain on this stubborn pole their efforts won't be significant enough to make a difference.

What percentage of the 12.95 do you think will go to the charity?

 

[CarlRacki]

Without charity events (like this) I would not donate money to charity. I'm also willing to bet that at least 85% of the people who come with me also don't donate to charity.

That's kind of sad and I hope you're very wrong about the 85 percent figure.

 

[Marconius]

Without charity events (like this) I would not donate money to charity. I'm also willing to bet that at least 85% of the people who come with me also don't donate to charity. Tickets to this event are 12.95 each. That is 13 dollars which will provide me with entertainment for the evening and send money to good causes.

If people could get over the blame game here and come together for a evening that will be a low cost enjoyable one with all the money going to good causes we could make a difference. But so long as all you spartacus's out there remain on this stubborn pole their efforts won't be significant enough to make a difference.

...and what percentage of your $12.95 woulld go to charity if you just cut them a cheque and mailed it off? I'd be surprised if 30% of the hockey ticket went to the actual charity after all the operating costs etc. were taken out

Since you're so concerned, you could make a bigger difference by simply donating your $12.95 straight to charity. But I suppose as long as all those 'Spartacus' out there who demand something in return for their charitable donation, most of that money disapears before it even hits the charity it's meant for.

 

[mr gib]

It is tax deductable when it isn't business related as well.

even benevolence has a cloak of greed - i mean - good buisness

 

[Lanny MacDonald*]

Wow, I didn't know that was common sense. Is this common sense to anyone out there that Eugene Melnyk lives in Barbados and doesn't pay taxes?

Anyone?

The way Canadian tax law works for Melnyk to avoid paying taxes in Canada he would have to divest himself of all assets on Canadian soil. As an ex-patriot and having gone through this exact issue I am pretty familiar with this. Melnyk pays Canadian taxes by owning the Senators. To say otherwise is burying your head in the sand and ignoring reality.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Suspected horse cheat, Eugene Melnyk.



I don't have to do their taxes to know that someone living in a tax haven isn't paying his share of Canadian taxes.

I'm a CPA south of the border, and I'll tell you that regardless of where you live, you still owe taxes to the country you have citizenship with. In many cases, you receive credit for any taxes paid to the country in which you work, but you are still paying taxes.

I bet that Melnyk pays more taxes to Canada this month than you'll pay your entire life. Ever think that he lives in Barbados because it's absolutely beautiful and the weather is incredible?

 

[Icey]

Well not everyone feels as most of you do. Last night in Frisco TX was the Prospects (Texas Tornado) vs. Pro's (current and former Stars). It was also a charity event supporting the Mike Modano Foundation (greedy players!). The event sold out in 2 and a half hours. It was the largest event to ever fill the Dr. Pepper Stars Center. 4200 people attended. There was not a empty seat in the house and they actually had sold standing room only tickets.

The Stars did not disappoint. It was electric from the national anthem on. It was a great game with a mixture of old Stars such as Craig Ludwig (his son plays for the Tornado), Brent Severyn, Guy Carbonneau. Coach of the Stars Dave Tippett played along with asst. coach Mark Lamb. They were joined by Mike Modano, Marty Turco, Brenden Morrow, Joe Neiwendyk, Aaron Downey, Philippe Boucher, Sergei Zubov, Teppo Numminen, Lyle Odelin, Richard Matvichuk, Stu Barnes and Mike Keane. I may have missed some, but the point is that the fans came to see the Stars. The pros won 6-2, but it was not as loopsides a game as the score would indicate.

Fans in Dallas miss NHL hockey. You can watch the Tornado or Ft. Worth Brahamas anytime, but they don't really. They wanted to see the Dallas Stars.

Of course I bet Tom Hicks was sitting in his Mansion in Dallas laughing all night knowing that when hockey returns so will the fan and last night was evidence of that.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

part of any buisness - tax deductable

So when was the last time that you donated millions of dollars?

Try to understand this:

1) Someone donates $1M to charity
2) That person no longer has $1M
3) That person then gets to pay $350K (US tax rates) less in tax.
4) Net cash outflow = $650K.

OK, so the generous person that donated $1MM REALLY is only donating $650K. Selfish bastards like that are the reason the world is so screwed up.

Didn't Karmanos say at his press conference that he'd rather donate the $20M the Canes were losing to charity?

 

[mooseOAK*]

Why do you think we have no new CBA and the NHLPA if fighting against a CAP??...

Your concerns are exactly what the NHLPA means when it says a market for its players ... The lower the Cap number becomes the more of the middle players are forced out of the game or take minimum wage ..

For every Joe Sakic a team signs for 5 - 6 mil it will have to have 3 or 4 players making 350-500k to offset that ... DO YOU SEE established NHLers playing for that or glorified AHLers ?? .. Even 1st round rookies will be making 850 max.

The day of the $9 million hockey player is over so what you will see after these contracts expire is that everyone will be making less and the gap between the highest and lowest paid player will be smaller. In terms of percentages the highest paid players will take the biggest hit, I think.

 

[Icey]

The day of the $9 million hockey player is over so what you will see after these contracts expire is that everyone will be making less and the gap between the highest and lowest paid player will be smaller. In terms of percentages the highest paid players will take the biggest hit, I think.

I think you are wrong. The top players will always make the big money. The Joe Sakics, Mike Modano's, Martin Brouder will always get the big bucks, those big buck may just be less. The players who will take the hardest hit will be the 3rd and 4th liners. Instead of making $1 they will be making $300,000.

 

[LordHelmet]

Well not everyone feels as most of you do. Last night in Frisco TX was the Prospects (Texas Tornado) vs. Pro's (current and former Stars). It was also a charity event supporting the Mike Modano Foundation (greedy players!). The event sold out in 2 and a half hours. It was the largest event to ever fill the Dr. Pepper Stars Center. 4200 people attended. There was not a empty seat in the house and they actually had sold standing room only tickets.

Good post Icey, I was just about to bring that up. Tickets were selling on eBay for $200+... If the game in Red Deer was a finger to the players, then what was this folks?

 

[LordHelmet]

OK, so the generous person that donated $1MM REALLY is only donating $650K. Selfish bastards like that are the reason the world is so screwed up.

Yeah, it would be much better off if the person didn't donate any money at all..

 

[Mess]

The day of the $9 million hockey player is over so what you will see after these contracts expire is that everyone will be making less and the gap between the highest and lowest paid player will be smaller. In terms of percentages the highest paid players will take the biggest hit, I think.

NO if the NHL caves first in this battle and the next CBA does not have a Hard Cap ..
Regardless Salaries will come down ...

We saw last June that GM's can make better finacial decsions if they need to...but they will still give out BAD Contracts to special Players ..

 

[guymez]

Well not everyone feels as most of you do. Last night in Frisco TX was the Prospects (Texas Tornado) vs. Pro's (current and former Stars). It was also a charity event supporting the Mike Modano Foundation (greedy players!). The event sold out in 2 and a half hours. It was the largest event to ever fill the Dr. Pepper Stars Center. 4200 people attended. There was not a empty seat in the house and they actually had sold standing room only tickets.

The Stars did not disappoint. It was electric from the national anthem on. It was a great game with a mixture of old Stars such as Craig Ludwig (his son plays for the Tornado), Brent Severyn, Guy Carbonneau. Coach of the Stars Dave Tippett played along with asst. coach Mark Lamb. They were joined by Mike Modano, Marty Turco, Brenden Morrow, Joe Neiwendyk, Aaron Downey, Philippe Boucher, Sergei Zubov, Teppo Numminen, Lyle Odelin, Richard Matvichuk, Stu Barnes and Mike Keane. I may have missed some, but the point is that the fans came to see the Stars. The pros won 6-2, but it was not as loopsides a game as the score would indicate.

Fans in Dallas miss NHL hockey. You can watch the Tornado or Ft. Worth Brahamas anytime, but they don't really. They wanted to see the Dallas Stars.

Of course I bet Tom Hicks was sitting in his Mansion in Dallas laughing all night knowing that when hockey returns so will the fan and last night was evidence of that.

Great event... put on by the Texas Tornado Hockey team and their owner Kirby Schlegel in their home arena. Proceeds went to the Texas Tornado Foundations and the various charities of the NHL stars participating in the event (including the Mike Modano Foundation). People also got to view the Stanley cup, which was on hand courtesy of the NHL.
There is a big difference between this event and a bunch of NHL players touring the country playing each other and handing out NHLPA gear.

If you are going to report a story at least report it accurately.

 

[Hoss]

The day of the $9 million hockey player is over so what you will see after these contracts expire is that everyone will be making less and the gap between the highest and lowest paid player will be smaller. In terms of percentages the highest paid players will take the biggest hit, I think.

I think you are wrong, unless a individual player cap is instituted, it is more likely the gap between the elite player and your support players will increase. The league's top players always enjoy the highest salaries, the number of million dollar players is likely to decrease to compensate. This really is the nature of the beast, the rich get richer, the bottom rung guys stay about the same (maybe even a raise) and the middle of the pack guys take the big hit (just like income tax).

 

[mr gib]

So when was the last time that you donated millions of dollars?

Try to understand this:

1) Someone donates $1M to charity
2) That person no longer has $1M
3) That person then gets to pay $350K (US tax rates) less in tax.
4) Net cash outflow = $650K.

OK, so the generous person that donated $1MM REALLY is only donating $650K. Selfish bastards like that are the reason the world is so screwed up.

Didn't Karmanos say at his press conference that he'd rather donate the $20M the Canes were losing to charity?

depends how you cook the books

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

If the game in Red Deer was a finger to the players, then what was this folks?

A game in a metropolitan area with a galactically higher population?

I'm not dismissing the original poster's point entirely, but it's hardly fair to dismiss basic population differences here. 800 in Red Deer, 4200 in Frisco, which is basically a suburb in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area, right? Red Deer has a population of 75,000, while the DFW area has what, 6 million people? Is it really shocking or symbolic that 4200 people could show up in an area with 80 times the population? (And even if a few more tickets could have been sold, it would still seem to be far from surprising.)

 

[Icey]

A game in a metropolitan area with a galactically higher population?

I'm not dismissing the original poster's point entirely, but it's hardly fair to dismiss basic population differences here. 800 in Red Deer, 4200 in Frisco, which is basically a suburb in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area, right? Red Deer has a population of 75,000, while the DFW area has what, 6 million people? Is it really shocking or symbolic that 4200 people could show up in an area with 80 times the population? (And even if a few more tickets could have been sold, it would still seem to be far from surprising.)

I think you're missing the point. The point was that the game sold out in two and half hours. These tickets were going on e-bay for $200 and people were paying it. There is another charity game tonight in Fort Worth, but no NHL players are playing, no Mike Modano, no Marty Turco, no Sergei Zubov. There are still over 1,000 tickets available. ANd in case you're not aware of it, but the drive to Frisco, TX from many parts of DFW area is over an hour. I know people who drove over 2 hours to see this game. They could have sold ten times as many tickets, if the arena could have held them. If this game was at the AAC, I bet 17,000 tickets would have been sold to a sell-out crowd.

And its funny you mention population because during the regualr NHL season all we hear is how any team in Canada can sell out an arena, but the teams in the US can't even sell-out a playoff series, but yet when its just the opposite its a population issue.

The point was the not all fans are turning their back on the players. So people actually want to see NHL players and not some nhl wannabees.

 

[Icey]

Great event... put on by the Texas Tornado Hockey team and their owner Kirby Schlegel in their home arena. Proceeds went to the Texas Tornado Foundations and the various charities of the NHL stars participating in the event (including the Mike Modano Foundation). People also got to view the Stanley cup, which was on hand courtesy of the NHL.
There is a big difference between this event and a bunch of NHL players touring the country playing each other and handing out NHLPA gear.

If you are going to report a story at least report it accurately.

Then you might also want to report that Mike Modano is also part owner of the Texas Tornado, funny you failed to mention that when you mentioned who owns the Tornado.

Who owns the Texas Tornado?
Texas Tornado Hockey Limited Partnership owns the team. Principals are Metroplex residents Bob Schlegel, Kirby Schlegel and Mike Modano.

Of course it wasn't sponsored by the Dallas Stars but the Tornado and Stars are partners, I never said it was. Mike Modano was responsible for a large portion of this event happening. And their home arena is owned by the Dallas Stars, hence the name ... Dr. Pepper Star Center.

My intention was not to report on the game, I was simply stating that there are people who actually want to go see NHL players and not turn their back on them like so many here insist everyone is doing. But perhaps the orginal poster should have pointed out that there was a blizzard with white out conditions in red deer that night and perhaps that is why only 800 people showed up.

Considering the appearance of the Stanley Cup wasn't announced until last week and this game had been sold out the day the tickets went on sale, I can bet that not many went to view the Stanley Cup. The Cup has been in Dallas many times in the past, not much of a thrill anymore.

 

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

I think you're missing the point. The point was that the game sold out in two and half hours. These tickets were going on e-bay for $200 and people were paying it. There is another charity game tonight in Fort Worth, but no NHL players are playing, no Mike Modano, no Marty Turco, no Sergei Zubov. There are still over 1,000 tickets available. ANd in case you're not aware of it, but the drive to Frisco, TX from many parts of DFW area is over an hour. I know people who drove over 2 hours to see this game. They could have sold ten times as many tickets, if the arena could have held them. If this game was at the AAC, I bet 17,000 tickets would have been sold to a sell-out crowd.

As I said, I wasn't dismissing the original poster's point entirely; I just think there are a lot of other factors involved, and population is certainly one of them.

And its funny you mention population because during the regualr NHL season all we hear is how any team in Canada can sell out an arena

We do?

 

[guymez]

A game in a metropolitan area with a galactically higher population?

I'm not dismissing the original poster's point entirely, but it's hardly fair to dismiss basic population differences here. 800 in Red Deer, 4200 in Frisco, which is basically a suburb in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex area, right? Red Deer has a population of 75,000, while the DFW area has what, 6 million people? Is it really shocking or symbolic that 4200 people could show up in an area with 80 times the population? (And even if a few more tickets could have been sold, it would still seem to be far from surprising.)

Despite the fact that some people want to equate these events they are clearly not the same. Population might have a little to do with it but I think the primary difference is the connection to the community. The Texas Tornado are a Junior 'A' team and are very well supported by the community. The Texas Tornado promoted this event (playing the NHL stars) for most of the season, and like they usually do with other games, they supported this game too. If the game in Red Deer would have involved the local Rebels Junior 'A' team against the NHL stars I have no doubt they would have drawn much better. Red Deer supports the Rebels very well. The common denominator here is the fact the local team is involved. That is a far cry from a bunch of NHL players playing each other at a charity event while handing out NHLPA gear.

 

[Icey]

As I said, I wasn't dismissing the original poster's point entirely; I just think there are a lot of other factors involved, and population is certainly one of them.



We do?

Yes. All any Oilers fan will say all season is "we can sell out any game in the middle of the winter, but you guys can't even sell out a playoff game." It gets old and now that shoe is on the other foot, they don't want to hear it.