Rumor: Rasmus Sandin negotiations "going nowhere"

[BigDaddyLurch]

I didn't respond directly to you. The "limitations " I mentioned are ones brought up previously in this thread.

...you quoted me; that's responding...regardless, his limitations are what they are and the Leafs need to make a decision on his immediate future...if he is holding out for more than the $2 mill or so he deserves on a short bridge, then I personally would move him for a young, defensively-minded RHD in a similar situation, should Dubas find one who's team is a willing trade partner...just my personal opinion of the situation...

 

[Voodoo Child]

I was shocked myself to see the early-career numbers of Dermott are pretty similar to Sandin’s numbers, but Sandin is having to break through into better D group, Brodie, Liljegren, Giordano and not Polak, Zaitsev, Carrick or Ozhiganov.

If Dermott was traded at 22 he would have returned a lot more than what he did, and that’s the lesson to take from this.

You could give him a show-me bridge for a year and if he succeeds then you have to pick between him and Bunting, but if he flops he’s worth just that much less next summer. I’d trade him if he was only willing to sign a one year deal.

Sandin has some interesting tools, the skating is weak but he can PP and is a great passer in all three zones, this realistically is the year he should put it together, but he probably doesn’t want to wait for an injury to get his shot.

Training camp is less than a month away now, something should get done soon. Half the Dobson deal (3x2) should be enough.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Dress it up however you want. You literally wrote that the 2 prospects ( Dermott and Sandin)were very very similar when they are really not similar at all. Sandins skating speed has been a known and acknowledged weakness since junior/being drafted: additionally mentioned several times already In the thread...

Ok, I'll make it clearer to you: Sandin and Dermott are in a very, very similar position.

It's funny how it's so 'well known' on his skating, but when I was writing about it I was being attacked by know-nothing Leaf homers all over the place here. Pronman was saying it was above-average and rating him as a top-10 prospect in the world at the same time (just behind Kaprizov!) ahaahahahaha.

Romanov or Sandin?

Even for now until we see more from both in the NHL.

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

that my team had to play a "play in" round for the chance to lose to the Habs in 7.......

2021?

The "play-in" took place in 2020.

What are the indicators that he's terrible defensively ?

Another believer in the magic beans that are the so-called "analytics".

You simply have to see him attempt to play defensively.

 

[Blacephalon]

You do realize that statistically more teams lose several years of play off games before they win the cup right? If you do not think the Leafs are a serious contender I'll shut up because they will prove you wrong.

The Leafs core have failed year after year to win a SINGLE playoff series and you think they’re ‘serious contenders’? What a sad, delusional take lol.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I didn't respond directly to you. The "limitations " I mentioned are ones brought up previously in this thread.

Why then did you quote him?

 

[RoadWarrior]

I think Dermott's story with Toronto was incredibly similar to Sandin's now. Just because the 2 players don't have the same strengths and weaknesses doesn't mean thay aren't in the same boat.

You're right, Dermott was given lots of tries to take more responsibility. Ans Sandin hasn't had as many of those chances. But the overall trajectory is similar. Failing to land a top 4 role for years will eventually catch up to Sandin, like it did with Dermott.

I think Sandin has one more year in Toronto, max.

The leafs handling of young defenseman over the years has been awful.

Case in point Anton Stralman whom they jettisoned too early.

You can't afford to make those kinds of mistakes in the salary cap era where key players on entry level deals are critical for success.

 

[banks]

The leafs handling of young defenseman over the years has been awful.

Case in point Anton Stralman whom they jettisoned too early.

You can't afford to make those kinds of mistakes in the salary cap era where key players on entry level deals are critical for success.

Give me a break.

Toronto traded Stralman 13 years ago. You're going to hold on to that forever?

And it wasn't even a bad decision at the time, since Toronto was not the only organization to give up on him. Stalman was also ditched by Calgary that same offseason in 2009. Then he continued to be terrible in Columbus who let him walk after 2 seasons. He had a PTA with NJD and was released. That's 4 teams that all gave up on him. Should Toronto have kept him for 4 more years? He only broke out well after his ELC.

Toronto gave him a better shot than he deserved. They even signed his Swedish D partner, Frogren, to try and make him more comfortable. What more should they have done?

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The leafs handling of young defenseman over the years has been awful.

Case in point Anton Stralman whom they jettisoned too early.

Like I said earlier that still pisses me off. I ranted so hard on another forum back in the day when that happened.

You can't afford to make those kinds of mistakes in the salary cap era where key players on entry level deals are critical for success.

Agreed.

They've also gutted their prospect and youth depth by trading away picks like drunken sailors. That has already bitten them in the ass and will continue to do so as long as they are so absurdly top-heavy in their contract allocation. Ever since they won the Matthews lottery they've gotten progressively more impatient, almost like the kind of depressing shit they used to do under previous management and ownership groups.

They might get lucky and go far with their current lineup but the forward depth is bad, the defense is deeper but a bit soft and the goaltending is a massive question mark. They're a flashy and explosive regular season team, and maybe that's enough for ownership but it should not be enough for one single fan on this board. Speaking generally (i.e. not directed at you), if you're a Leafs fan and you're not demanding much, much more than you've received from this team to date, you're not a fan, you're just a Stockholm Syndrome sufferer. Have some damn self-respect and demand more before you spend any more money on the team.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Like I said earlier that still pisses me off. I ranted so hard on another forum back in the day when that happened.

Agreed.

They've also gutted their prospect and youth depth by trading away picks like drunken sailors. That has already bitten them in the ass and will continue to do so as long as they are so absurdly top-heavy in their contract allocation. Ever since they won the Matthews lottery they've gotten progressively more impatient, almost like the kind of depressing shit they used to do under previous management and ownership groups.

They might get lucky and go far with their current lineup but the forward depth is bad, the defense is deeper but a bit soft and the goaltending is a massive question mark. They're a flashy and explosive regular season team, and maybe that's enough for ownership but it should not be enough for one single fan on this board. Speaking generally (i.e. not directed at you), if you're a Leafs fan and you're not demanding much, much more than you've received from this team to date, you're not a fan, you're just a Stockholm Syndrome sufferer. Have some damn self-respect and demand more before you spend any more money on the team.

The current management has deluded themselves into believing that the current core 5 players are good enough to win a cup despite failing to advance past the first round for 5 consecutive years.

Nobody else in the league believes it.

When delusion takes over then decision making becomes irrational.

The smart move here is dumping the core 5 itself and re-stocking for another run with quality young prospects and vets on short term deals.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

The current management has deluded themselves into believing that the current core 5 players are good enough to win a cup despite failing to advance past the first round for 5 consecutive years.

Nobody else in the league believes it.

When delusion takes over then decision making becomes irrational.

I definitely want my management group with the conviction to stick to their guns when times get tough, but there's a difference between patience and outright stubbornness due to ego. Seems like they have crossed over to the latter category at this point.

The smart move here is dumping the core 5 itself and re-stocking for another run with quality young prospects and vets on short term deals.

That's an awfully big gamble.

It's all going to come down to whether or not they can retain Matthews. Losing him for nothing is simply not an option, so if you can't retain him they need to trade him for whatever they can (I understand he will control the destination) since there's no way they could keep him as an "own rental" given the incredible distraction his upcoming UFA status would become to the team; they couldn't win anything in that environment anyway. Thinking about it at large, if you can't retain Matthews you're pretty much unavoidably on a one-way ticket to Rebuildtown, Ontario so you'd need to make the appropriate decisions to fit that paradigm going forward.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

2021?

The "play-in" took place in 2020.


Another believer in the magic beans that are the so-called "analytics".

You simply have to see him attempt to play defensively.

Full apologies for not remembering correctly. I'm so lazy I can't even look it up.

I just know that every first round series the Leafs have played in went 7 games, and they somehow manage to get me to the point that I have to tell other Leafs fans, even if the Leafs are up 3-0 in a series, don't talk crap.

And that collapse to the Habs.....we got Cary Priced.....I mean it hurts to be a Leafs fan, and on top of that we are so hated despite being so pathetic haha.

Maybe someday they'll bring the glory, but I kinda doubt it. It's basically an abusive relationship that you keep coming back to.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Full apologies for not remembering correctly. I'm so lazy I can't even look it up.

I just know that every first round series the Leafs have played in went 7 games, and they somehow manage to get me to the point that I have to tell other Leafs fans, even if the Leafs are up 3-0 in a series, don't talk crap.

And that collapse to the Habs.....we got Cary Priced.....I mean it hurts to be a Leafs fan, and on top of that we are so hated despite being so pathetic haha.

Maybe someday they'll bring the glory, but I kinda doubt it. It's basically an abusive relationship that you keep coming back to.

No issues everyone has brain farts, Washington went 6 if I remember without looking it up. Obviously Columbus went 5. , but that was the maximum for the play ins.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

No issues everyone has brain farts, Washington went 6 if I remember without looking it up. Obviously Columbus went 5. , but that was the maximum for the play ins.

Yeah I mentioned "all but Caps series" earlier. That went 6, I think 3 or 4 of the games went to OT.

It sucks haha.

But I gotta say, watching Matthews win the Rocket last year, and become the all time highest goal scorer for the Leafs was pretty awesome. You gotta take what you can get. And then maybe he takes off for somewhere else, and well it was a pleasure to watch the guy.

I mean, Sundin was great.......we'll see where it all goes.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

...you quoted me; that's responding...regardless, his limitations are what they are and the Leafs need to make a decision on his immediate future...if he is holding out for more than the $2 mill or so he deserves on a short bridge, then I personally would move him for a young, defensively-minded RHD in a similar situation, should Dubas find one who's team is a willing trade partner...just my personal opinion of the situation...

Didn't realize it was you specifically. It was more an amalgamation of the comments prior. I don't disagree either that a cheap stay at home d ( say Mayfield for example) would fit like a glove . You said terrible skater and implied defensive weakness. I agree with 1 of those assertions. But my bad for not realizing the source of my quoting .

 

[Menzinger]

I'll spell it out to you:
No two prospects are the same but prospects that don't play don't develop and flounder. An agent's job is to angle his player into a position where he can play and develop.

I've definitely seen Sandin. While idiots like Pronman were rating his skating 'above average', here's what I wrote back in 2019: GDT: - All-Purpose Preseason Game Discussions

And Dermott was given ample opportunity, including time in the Leafs top 4 to show what he can do. The suggestion that Dermott was developmentally hindered by lack of opportunity doesn't line up with what actually happened with him in Toronto.

There's nothing suggesting they also won't do the same for Sandin when he eventually signs an extension

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

2021?

The "play-in" took place in 2020.


Another believer in the magic beans that are the so-called "analytics".

You simply have to see him attempt to play defensively.

Was he on the ice for many goals against? Drag down his partners? Allow tons of chances? Anything more to offer then " just watch him attempt to play d " ambiguity?

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

You'd punt Muzzin to give Sandin some confidence?

Your worst case scenario is about 90% likely to happen. You cant just gift a 22 year old d man a roster spot on a contending team.

On a what?

 

[HabsAddict]

Of all things skating is something that can be worked at and seriously improve. IF the player is willing to put in the hard work.

You simply can't be undersized and slow.

And no, nobody is entitled to a starting position. It's EARNED.

 

[Weltschmerz]

feels like this discussion is also going nowhere

 

[BruinsBtn]

And Dermott was given ample opportunity, including time in the Leafs top 4 to show what he can do. The suggestion that Dermott was developmentally hindered by lack of opportunity doesn't line up with what actually happened with him in Toronto.

There's nothing suggesting they also won't do the same for Sandin when he eventually signs an extension

I would bet the agents of Dermott and Sandin disagree.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Was he on the ice for many goals against? Drag down his partners? Allow tons of chances? Anything more to offer then " just watch him attempt to play d " ambiguity?

What about forces the forwards to come back deeper in the zone, creating fewer offensive chances.

There's a lot of stuff that the magic beans do not evaluate.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

On a what?

contending. Nobody is shocked you dont know what that is since you only watch toronto.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

contending. Nobody is shocked you dont know what that is since you only watch toronto.

Ya know, everyone says Toronto will lose in the first round and then it always happens. You think anyone actually thinks they’re a contender?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Ya know, everyone says Toronto will lose in the first round and then it always happens. You think anyone actually thinks they’re a contender?

Yeah, I do.