Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part II

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shultzyfeelinirie20

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Jan 30, 2012
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i wish we could do a trade around callahan/ferraro/quincy/kindl plus a pick or two and get a solid blueliner like an andy greene or somthing or maybe even setiguchi from winnipeg just get a lil something extra with our spare parts that might not get a chance here in Det.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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luke adam for andersson/kindl was in the trade threads and i thought that was pretty even kindl needs a change as does adam

I don't see a need for Luke Adam at all. I live in Upstate NY, so I've seen him quite a bit between the Sabres and Amerks. There's nothing special there at all. Sheahans a better version of him IMO.
 

InjuredChoker

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Dec 25, 2011
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LTIR or golf course
How is it that no matter who Edler is paired with his numbers keep dropping...while the 5 other defenseman seem to benefit when not paired with him? That can't just be luck, it's too much of a variance.

sh% is variance. HE CAN NOT INFLUENCE THE SH% OF CANUCKS FORWARDS. if they weren't getting shots on net, not getting chances, like every player would do better without edler from possession stand point, your argument would make sense. but that is not the case.

is it right toput it on edler on that sedin's, kesler, hansen, higgins and burrows have combined for 7 goals all year when playing with edler, despite them getting more chances to score with edler than when they have been without him?

some could be attributed to bad play but most, absolutely not.

there have been lots of players who have had as bad on-ice sh% as edler, with as good track record. they have bounced back. coburn, campbell, jordan staal are similar players just from last year. andy greene few years back, same with erik karlsson and subban. with karlsson is was the year before he won the norris and went something like -30. they had that same variance, same bad luck and they bounced back.

there have been zero players, who have maintained as low on-ice sh% long-term since 07 (data isn't available beyond that).

edler's on ice sh% from 07-13: 8.03

this year: 4.53

and actually little lower after last night.

jason garrison has been his most frequent partner.

here is garrison's shot attempt percent with edler: 50.4%

here is without edler: 46.6%

garrison has been doing better with edler on shot attempts. puck just hasn't gone in and has gone in slightly more to canucks net. past 6 years that i have looked there is no other dman that hasn't bounced back from similar situation, and has maintained as bad sh% long-term.

bieksa is the only other dman he's played even fairly significant minutes and there is similar thing with him (except he's even in +/- with him).

players suffering from bad sh% has happened lots of times before, players who get minuses like that while being good to very good possession players has basically never happened long-term. well might have happened in 80s or 90 as one doesn't have the stats from those days but it was different game back then anyway.

Lidstrom is not comparable to Edler. He always played against the other teams top players. Edler had been playing on the middle or bottom pair presumably matched up against the other teams bottom 6 players when it could be helped.

edler was used against top opposition as a shutdown guy to start the season.

some players he's been up against most this season (not from the same team).

thornton
zubrus (plays on jagr line mostly, jagr is few mins back)
perron (EDM best ES player this year)
bäcklund (hudler played on the same line, but 30 secs less against him)
doan
kopitar
perry
patrick kane


top opposition most of the time. didn't look further that closely as the sample sizes started to get that small. he's been up against the other team's bottom 6 players but so was lidström that last norris year. both were mostly against one of the two top lines. lidström played fair amount against sobotka's, smithson's, spaling's etc. every player is sometimes against bottom 6 players.

the point was to say that he hasn't been on the ice against exceptional amount of goals, anyway. it was that he has been on the ice for exceptionally few goals.
 
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probertrules24

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Jul 10, 2007
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luke adam for andersson/kindl was in the trade threads and i thought that was pretty even kindl needs a change as does adam

I believe your thinking of another deal. The deal proposed before was Adam for Ferraro + McBain for Kindl + 2/3 for Andersson + Jurco for Grigorenko. These were 3 seperate deals that got combined and the Jurco for Grigorenko got added.

I personally wouldn't touch Adam for Kindl and probably wouldn't do it for Andersson either. Adam just doesn't seem to have the foot speed for the NHL from what I remember.
 

shultzyfeelinirie20

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Jan 30, 2012
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I believe your thinking of another deal. The deal proposed before was Adam for Ferraro + McBain for Kindl + 2/3 for Andersson + Jurco for Grigorenko. These were 3 seperate deals that got combined and the Jurco for Grigorenko got added.

I personally wouldn't touch Adam for Kindl and probably wouldn't do it for Andersson either. Adam just doesn't seem to have the foot speed for the NHL from what I remember.

your right my bad but that jurco n grigorenko doesnt seem to shabby
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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That Adam McQuaid for Kindl was much more interesting idea. Big physical RD, we don't have that kind of guy now, or in our prospect system.
 

silkyjohnson50

Registered User
Jan 10, 2007
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That Adam McQuaid for Kindl was much more interesting idea. Big physical RD, we don't have that kind of guy now, or in our prospect system.

I'd do that in a heartbeat. What's the salary difference though, does it help or hurt us?
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
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Tampere, Finland

But it's also a fact that in the future we maybe don't have free roster spots for all our young wingers. If we can sacrifice one to bolster our defence (like that Tatar-trade for Edler) I'm all for it.

Tatar could be very easily be replaced by our own prospects pretty soon, Jurco and Pulkkinen are coming. And Mantha.

But no one from our current roster turns to be "alexedler" for years from now.

Those kind of trade would help both teams, so why not?
 

The Zermanator

In Yzerman We Trust
Jan 21, 2013
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implicit in that comment is that we would possibly be looking to deal guys who are not going to be a part of the future. Wouldn't mind being sellers a bit at the deadline.

I agree. The more I think about it, the less i want Holland to ship out good prospects and young guys to acquire a Vanek, Moulson, Edler or Callahan.

Best case scenario, Holland ships out enough of Eaves, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Quincey and Kindl to get Sheahan and possibly Jurco on the team permanently.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen
Weiss-Datsyuk-Alfie
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Glendening

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Lashoff-Marchenko/Almquist/Ouellet

That lineup is more than good enough to go deep in the playoffs.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
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I agree. The more I think about it, the less i want Holland to ship out good prospects and young guys to acquire a Vanek, Moulson, Edler or Callahan.

Best case scenario, Holland ships out enough of Eaves, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Quincey and Kindl to get Sheahan and possibly Jurco on the team permanently.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen
Weiss-Datsyuk-Alfie
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Glendening

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Lashoff-Marchenko/Almquist/Ouellet

That lineup is more than good enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Only if Weiss returns to form. Which is a huge question mark.

And the defense is shaky, even if we have good forwards in place.
 

Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Cleveland
I agree. The more I think about it, the less i want Holland to ship out good prospects and young guys to acquire a Vanek, Moulson, Edler or Callahan.

Best case scenario, Holland ships out enough of Eaves, Tootoo, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Quincey and Kindl to get Sheahan and possibly Jurco on the team permanently.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Franzen
Weiss-Datsyuk-Alfie
Jurco-Sheahan-Tatar
Miller-Helm-Glendening

Kronwall-Ericsson
DeKeyser-Smith
Lashoff-Marchenko/Almquist/Ouellet

That lineup is more than good enough to go deep in the playoffs.

Depending on price (obviously) I wouldn't have a problem with Edler because we know he's going to be here awhile and he's on the right side of 30. If we bring in someone who is signed for awhile, and isn't a grey beard, I can see the sense in that sort of trade. We have too many prospects to realistically work them all into the lineup the next few years anyway. I just don't want to see us blow good assets for a guy who walks in the summer.
 

JmanWingsFan

Your average Jman
Aug 18, 2011
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Somewhere
If we have to send some of the young guys down, I wonder if it's possible if we could take a flyer on Nikolai Kulemin. He always seems to be available and doesn't have very many good players to play with.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

Registered User
Aug 11, 2009
13,884
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Detroit
Adding elder makes sense as he is young and signed for years, trick is figuring out right pckg to send back. Kindle and a first for sure but then what?

Apart from that we should sell and not buy..
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
implicit in that comment is that we would possibly be looking to deal guys who are not going to be a part of the future. Wouldn't mind being sellers a bit at the deadline.

Yep but the "Those are the guys other teams will be asking about" also implies that we aren't getting/probably won't get calls about guys like Kindl. I don't know if Andersson is considered part of the future of the team, I'd guess he isn't. But yeah.
 

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
10,249
547
Only if Weiss returns to form. Which is a huge question mark.

And the defense is shaky, even if we have good forwards in place.

Hell, put Franzen on that second line for Weiss, dump Weiss, put Abby back on the top line. Whatever, he's been good there this year.

Seems like, with the way Sheahan has come along, Weiss is getting pretty expendable as a center. And we have more than enough wingers already.
 
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