Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part II

[drw02]

I have no issues with Kronner as a PP QB. The biggest problem with the PP I have is the forwards rarely attack down low. Too passive, too content with taking point shots.

As far as Vanek I'll be pissed if the Wings traded a good package of prospects/picks for him. I don't see any way he doesn't hit free agency after the season. The Wild will have first dibs because he calls Minnesota home and the Wild will have the money to sign him with Heatley coming off the books and the cap ceiling rising.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

yeah, tell me about it.

check it out

That's crazy & it's not like he's played with the top guys very often IIRC the 2nd unit forwards were at one point Cleary, Weiss & Franzen. I guess I should re-evaluate my views on Kindl.

 

[InjuredChoker]

That's crazy & it's not like he's played with the top guys very often IIRC the 2nd unit forwards were at one point Cleary, Weiss & Franzen. I guess I should re-evaluate my views on Kindl.

it might be lot of luck involved there. he's producing three times more on pp than last year, and he's not that much better. if at all.

 

[Frk It]

it might be lot of luck involved there. he's producing three times more on pp than last year, and he's not that much better. if at all.

Yeah eye test he looks worse this year. Mishandling the puck, not holding the line, questionable decisions, etc.

Last year I thought he looked way better, but he wasn't getting a lot of pts.

Weird stuff.

 

[jaster]

I think the arguing over whether or not Kronwall is a 1st unit guy or not is missing the point a bit. He might be able to get some points up from the spot, and his style is a bit different from what we're accustomed to with Lids and Rafalski back there. Still, he used to be the guy who anchored our 2nd unit, and he was at best the third best puck mover on the team in any situation. Now, he's the first. We've taken a massive step back in that from our blueline.

Is that the point though? What's the point of that point? Your points may be too pointy. I point, you point, we all point at points.

My point is this: Is the fact that we've taken that step back even worth discussing, when there's no realistic chance of us getting back to that level (given the salary cap and the fact that there is not another Nick Lidstrom)? Ok, that's not a point, that's a question. But you get my point.

I agree with the idea of getting better overall puck movement on the blueline though. I'm not sure that means we have to acquire a guy who is a better PMD than anyone currently on the roster. Maybe just add another guy as good as Kronwall. Hell, even if you got a PMD half as good as Kronwall to replace Quincey, that's a huge upgrade.

 

[Winger98]

Is that the point though? What's the point of that point? Your points may be too pointy. I point, you point, we all point at points.

My point is this: Is the fact that we've taken that step back even worth discussing, when there's no realistic chance of us getting back to that level (given the salary cap and the fact that there is not another Nick Lidstrom)? Ok, that's not a point, that's a question. But you get my point.

I agree with the idea of getting better overall puck movement on the blueline though. I'm not sure that means we have to acquire a guy who is a better PMD than anyone currently on the roster. Maybe just add another guy as good as Kronwall. Hell, even if you got a PMD half as good as Kronwall to replace Quincey, that's a huge upgrade.

I think it's worth discussing because it so impacts how the Wings are able to play the game and implement strategy. For the past season and a half now I've seen the term "boring" thrown around every third game - unless we're losing, then it's three or four times every page in a thread. But without some good puck movers, they can't play the way we're accustomed to seeing. Of course they look more conservative, their D just can't make the plays to get the puck up ice that our D used to make. While we praise Kindl and talk about Smith's potential, etc., they still aren't at a level we really need them to be at.

I'm hoping we see some sort of move in that direction to take Quincey's spot over the summer. Despite his injury problems, Markov would look great here (though he'd look great damn near anywhere).

 

[shultzyfeelinirie20]

I have no issues with Kronner as a PP QB. The biggest problem with the PP I have is the forwards rarely attack down low. Too passive, too content with taking point shots.

As far as Vanek I'll be pissed if the Wings traded a good package of prospects/picks for him. I don't see any way he doesn't hit free agency after the season. The Wild will have first dibs because he calls Minnesota home and the Wild will have the money to sign him with Heatley coming off the books and the cap ceiling rising.

i have a feeling hes headed to minny to there about to have such a stacked team its rediculous

 

[jaster]

I think it's worth discussing because it so impacts how the Wings are able to play the game and implement strategy. For the past season and a half now I've seen the term "boring" thrown around every third game - unless we're losing, then it's three or four times every page in a thread. But without some good puck movers, they can't play the way we're accustomed to seeing. Of course they look more conservative, their D just can't make the plays to get the puck up ice that our D used to make. While we praise Kindl and talk about Smith's potential, etc., they still aren't at a level we really need them to be at.

I'm hoping we see some sort of move in that direction to take Quincey's spot over the summer. Despite his injury problems, Markov would look great here (though he'd look great damn near anywhere).

I'm on board with that. Markov's health is certainly a concern, but it's slightly mitigated by the fact that we have a bunch of D prospects that could get a look and some experience if he goes down. Still, you want the guy healthy, and you better hope he is for the playoffs. What are the chances he leaves Montreal though?

 

[fimoknete]

I think it's worth discussing because it so impacts how the Wings are able to play the game and implement strategy. For the past season and a half now I've seen the term "boring" thrown around every third game - unless we're losing, then it's three or four times every page in a thread. But without some good puck movers, they can't play the way we're accustomed to seeing. Of course they look more conservative, their D just can't make the plays to get the puck up ice that our D used to make. While we praise Kindl and talk about Smith's potential, etc., they still aren't at a level we really need them to be at.

I'm hoping we see some sort of move in that direction to take Quincey's spot over the summer. Despite his injury problems, Markov would look great here (though he'd look great damn near anywhere).

the problem are more the other teams. the wings playing "boring hockey" since 2 years now. thats babcocks only chance to stay in the business with a this roster. the loss of talent the last years is enormous.
so he is brickwalling and trying not to loose games. thats a complete different style. just brickwalling. but the bottom feeders are doing it as well. thats the reason why the games look boring and its the reason we are looking so much better vs "good" teams. teams like the pens or boston at least try to win games instead hoping for a draw. that style is more prone to the counter attacks then a defensive team. the rest is datsyuk and zetta.
cant blame the coach for this. the problem is more the growing of a loosers environment. all of a sudden everybody is pround of a loss vs. chicago in the 2nd round playoffs. that doesnt sound red wing like. i can see the wings already playing like florida or calgary after datsyuk and zetta are gone. and then it gets really ugly.

 

[Johnz96*]

i have a feeling hes headed to minny to there about to have such a stacked team its rediculous

Getting Niedereitter was a great trade for them. I still think overpaying for Suter and Parise will catch up to them.

 

[Amyklas]

Getting Niedereitter was a great trade for them. I still think overpaying for Suter and Parise will catch up to them.

will? it hasn't paid off yet, so it's essentially caught up with them and they have to prove otherwise by making a run

 

[Frk It]

Getting Niedereitter was a great trade for them. I still think overpaying for Suter and Parise will catch up to them.

Cap going up in the next few years makes it not as bad. Kinda lucky for them.

 

[TatarTangle]

I'm on board with that. Markov's health is certainly a concern, but it's slightly mitigated by the fact that we have a bunch of D prospects that could get a look and some experience if he goes down. Still, you want the guy healthy, and you better hope he is for the playoffs. What are the chances he leaves Montreal though?

None. He said he wants to stay in Montreal a couple months ago. To my knowledge, they have already started to talk about a contract.

Grabovski would be the best FA signing for the Red Wings. He won't be leaving Washington though. Resigning Alfredsson and one of Cleary or Bertuzzi will be the headlines for Detroit. Yes, unfortunately, I still think one of those two evils gets resigned.

 

[Amyklas]

None. He said he wants to stay in Montreal a couple months ago. To my knowledge, they have already started to talk about a contract.

Grabovski would be the best FA signing for the Red Wings. He won't be leaving Washington though. Resigning Alfredsson and one of Cleary or Bertuzzi will be the headlines for Detroit. Yes, unfortunately, I still think one of those two evils gets resigned.

I don't understand how Bert gets lumped in with Cleary and Sammy so often. Yes, he's older. But the guy still plays and creates space/opportunity. Cleary and Sammy are in a class of their own, causing my physical pain just by watching them "skate" a shift


Edit: I said it before, and I stand by it, the Wings could/should have tried to get Andy Greene when he was dirt cheap. He's still a solid D-man at a much better rate than someone like Quincey (with obvious upside re PP time)

 

[TatarTangle]

I don't understand how Bert gets lumped in with Cleary and Sammy so often. Yes, he's older. But the guy still plays and creates space/opportunity. Cleary and Sammy are in a class of their own, causing my physical pain just by watching them "skate" a shift

I don't disagree he creates space. But he'll be 40 next season. No thanks - I'll take the twentysomething with fresh legs.

If he was still a "shootout specialist" I'd consider it.

 

[Amyklas]

I don't disagree he creates space. But he'll be 40 next season. No thanks - I'll take the twentysomething with fresh legs.

If he was still a "shootout specialist" I'd consider it.

i agree with that part too (i.e. - giving a young guy a chance next year). I guess my comment was based more on the present and recent past where Sammy and Cleary seemed to drag Bert down with them in every "get rid of them" conversation. My point was just that, even currently, he's not a liability like the other two, and he brings something to the team.

 

[detredWINgs]

Shouldn't even bother discussing the idea of Vanek. The Wings are trending downward, Minnesota is not. They can simply swap out Heater's salary with Vanek's and the only big raise they need to give out is to Nino.

The only way I see him going anywhere else is if a team with a great present and a decent future - LA, Chicago, Anaheim, Pittsburgh, etc. - trades for him at the deadline and he is charmed into staying with them due to the winning culture.

 

[detredWINgs]

I don't disagree he creates space. But he'll be 40 next season. No thanks - I'll take the twentysomething with fresh legs.

If he was still a "shootout specialist" I'd consider it.

I wouldn't even consider it then. The shootout issues with this team, IMO, are nothing more than psychological.

I can see the Wings hesitation at swapping out Cleary, Sammy, and Bert with rookies or sophomores, but that doesn't need to be the case. IMO, this team could stand to add a veteran middle six forward who is currently what Cleary, Sammy, and Bert used to be - solid players with 40+ point potential who would add to a line rather than detract from it.

I'd love to see all three of them shipped off and replaced with one of Stajan, Stempniak, Bolland, Raymond, et al - the kind of guys you may lose with if in your top 6, but the type you win with on your third line.

 

[iwtb*]

We need some physically

 

[Detroit Sports*]

We need some physically

And some physicality.

 

[Hobnobs]

I miss guys who could play tough while actually contributing to the team.

I miss guys like Lapointe, McCarty, Maltby, Ward, Pushor, Errey, Fischer, Kocur...

 

[iwtb*]

Me too. There's two ****heads who need to go. Holland and Babcock.
Babcock makes guys like Ericsson and Kronwall play soft and send players like Tootoo down. And Hollan bring here players like Sammy and Cleary and Franzen.

This Red Wings team is so embrassin when they do not even defend their team mates.

 

[shultzyfeelinirie20]

^ yeah they dont seem to come around as much these days very rare to have a guy that produces and yet hits,fits, sticks up for team mates etc. only a few guys in the league like that nowadays

 

[iwtb*]

Not true. All other teams but Detroit have players who defend team mates.

 

[Kronwalled55]

^ yeah they dont seem to come around as much these days very rare to have a guy that produces and yet hits,fits, sticks up for team mates etc. only a few guys in the league like that nowadays

Yeah, you actually need to develop players like this or end up paying decent prices via trade because they rarely hit the FA market. Like a Wayne Simmonds for example. Or look at how much Clarkson was given...