Panarin Thread II (wins Calder)

[Hawkaholic]

but what about those other rfa's of the hawks.....

Panik, Rasmussen, and Kempny should be happy with under 1mil contracts at the very most. They are replaceable depth players.

 

[LDF]

Panik, Rasmussen, and Kempny should be happy with under 1mil contracts at the very most. They are replaceable depth players.

yes and i think they may be more than a mil. but only time will tell.

 

[TLEH]

his goal was his 100th point in 107 NHL games... Ridiculous.

 

[halcyon]

Can Stan hurry up and sign him or what? If there is any player who you sign mid-season first and worry about cap implications later, Panarin would be it. I mean Stan has no trouble extending Marcus ****ing Kruger to a 3mil+ AAV contract mid-season, but apparently decides to be hesitant with Panarin of all players. The only player who could put the puck in the net during those abysmal losses to Philly and the Peg.

The longer Panarin goes without getting re-signed, the more I get worried about him being a cap casualty. Which is just not something this team can handle and still be able to contend. They need to go for the Cup every year they can while Toews and Kane are in their primes still (well, Toews is debatable, but that's a different story). Trading Panarin for assets just doesn't help this team at all, because if we sit around waiting years for assets to develop the core is going to be too old to contend at that point. We need to lock him down now. We really lucked out that he chose the Hawks out of all 30 teams in the NHL (being a good team had a lot to do with it, but there are a lot of good teams in the NHL), and now are in danger of losing him because Stan apparently has decided that the one player he SHOULD lock down at all costs is the player he will decide to nickel and dime? I mean obviously I don't know exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but Panarin's reported demands aren't even that much, so I don't get the hold-up.

 

[LDF]

Can Stan hurry up and sign him or what? If there is any player who you sign mid-season first and worry about cap implications later, Panarin would be it. I mean Stan has no trouble extending Marcus ****ing Kruger to a 3mil+ AAV contract mid-season, but apparently decides to be hesitant with Panarin of all players. The only player who could put the puck in the net during those abysmal losses to Philly and the Peg.

The longer Panarin goes without getting re-signed, the more I get worried about him being a cap casualty. Which is just not something this team can handle and still be able to contend. They need to go for the Cup every year they can while Toews and Kane are in their primes still (well, Toews is debatable, but that's a different story). Trading Panarin for assets just doesn't help this team at all, because if we sit around waiting years for assets to develop the core is going to be too old to contend at that point. We need to lock him down now. We really lucked out that he chose the Hawks out of all 30 teams in the NHL (being a good team had a lot to do with it, but there are a lot of good teams in the NHL), and now are in danger of losing him because Stan apparently has decided that the one player he SHOULD lock down at all costs is the player he will decide to nickel and dime? I mean obviously I don't know exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but Panarin's reported demands aren't even that much, so I don't get the hold-up.

re the bold, i agree, but my problem is, while SB was trying to be a nice gm and give kruger his real nice contract as payment for past and future favors, the hawks needs to lock down Panarin. i can see the idea of exposing kruger in the expansion, that is the future favor i was referring too. but no contract for panarin is too dangerous.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Can Stan hurry up and sign him or what? If there is any player who you sign mid-season first and worry about cap implications later, Panarin would be it. I mean Stan has no trouble extending Marcus ****ing Kruger to a 3mil+ AAV contract mid-season, but apparently decides to be hesitant with Panarin of all players. The only player who could put the puck in the net during those abysmal losses to Philly and the Peg.

The longer Panarin goes without getting re-signed, the more I get worried about him being a cap casualty. Which is just not something this team can handle and still be able to contend. They need to go for the Cup every year they can while Toews and Kane are in their primes still (well, Toews is debatable, but that's a different story). Trading Panarin for assets just doesn't help this team at all, because if we sit around waiting years for assets to develop the core is going to be too old to contend at that point. We need to lock him down now. We really lucked out that he chose the Hawks out of all 30 teams in the NHL (being a good team had a lot to do with it, but there are a lot of good teams in the NHL), and now are in danger of losing him because Stan apparently has decided that the one player he SHOULD lock down at all costs is the player he will decide to nickel and dime? I mean obviously I don't know exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but Panarin's reported demands aren't even that much, so I don't get the hold-up.

At this point, I feel this is the more likely end. I now feel it's about a 60% chance his RFA rights are traded this summer, and I feel that number increases as everyday goes by.

I forget which podcast I was listening to (Powers' or Zawaski's) but one of them recently said Panarin's preseason ask was more like a $6.5M AAV, not $6M. His agent has every right to increase that ask based on what Panarin has shown this season.

I've been mentally preparing myself to see Panarin go for months, and as each day passes without a new deal, it seems more and more likely he will go. In the meantime, I'm just trying to enjoy watching him in a Hawks jersey while I can.

 

[LDF]

At this point, I feel this is the more likely end. I now feel it's about a 60% chance his RFA rights are traded this summer, and I feel that number increases as everyday goes by.

I forget which podcast I was listening to (Powers' or Zawaski's) but one of them recently said Panarin's preseason ask was more like a $6.5M AAV, not $6M. His agent has every right to increase that ask based on what Panarin has shown this season.

I've been mentally preparing myself to see Panarin go for months, and as each day passes without a new deal, it seems more and more likely he will go. In the meantime, I'm just trying to enjoy watching him in a Hawks jersey while I can.

and while you are correct, in a offseason, panarin and agent will be open for bids from other teams. who cares about draft picks awarded then.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

and while you are correct, in a offseason, panarin and agent will be open for bids from other teams. who cares about draft picks awarded then.

You can trade his RFA rights before an offer sheet is signed, that's what happened with Saad.

 

[JaegerDice]

Can Stan hurry up and sign him or what? If there is any player who you sign mid-season first and worry about cap implications later, Panarin would be it. I mean Stan has no trouble extending Marcus ****ing Kruger to a 3mil+ AAV contract mid-season, but apparently decides to be hesitant with Panarin of all players. The only player who could put the puck in the net during those abysmal losses to Philly and the Peg.

The longer Panarin goes without getting re-signed, the more I get worried about him being a cap casualty. Which is just not something this team can handle and still be able to contend. They need to go for the Cup every year they can while Toews and Kane are in their primes still (well, Toews is debatable, but that's a different story). Trading Panarin for assets just doesn't help this team at all, because if we sit around waiting years for assets to develop the core is going to be too old to contend at that point. We need to lock him down now. We really lucked out that he chose the Hawks out of all 30 teams in the NHL (being a good team had a lot to do with it, but there are a lot of good teams in the NHL), and now are in danger of losing him because Stan apparently has decided that the one player he SHOULD lock down at all costs is the player he will decide to nickel and dime? I mean obviously I don't know exactly what is going on behind the scenes, but Panarin's reported demands aren't even that much, so I don't get the hold-up.

They have a workable number in mind and if Panarin and his agent demand more, he will be moved for assets.

People on this board whine all the time about Stan giving players too much money too quickly. Now Stan is pulling an Yzerman and some of the same people are ****ting their pants at the bargaining table.

No winning.

 

[LDF]

You can trade his RFA rights before an offer sheet is signed, that's what happened with Saad.

all true and that is the worst case.

but it will suck. here comes my bias, i do not trust SB in trades and salary awards.

 

[LDF]

They have a workable number in mind and if Panarin and his agent demand more, he will be moved for assets.

People on this board whine all the time about Stan giving players too much money too quickly. Now Stan is pulling an Yzerman and some of the same people are ****ting their pants at the bargaining table.

No winning.

you have a point, but in ref to force trades or trades, how many times has the team came out as the sure winner, and how will the team rebound with panarin traded. who will take his place???

 

[halcyon]

They have a workable number in mind and if Panarin and his agent demand more, he will be moved for assets.

People on this board whine all the time about Stan giving players too much money too quickly. Now Stan is pulling an Yzerman and some of the same people are ****ting their pants at the bargaining table.

No winning.

Well, I already explained why moving Panarin for "assets" does not help this team at all. This team should be going for the Cup every year while they can and while the core is still intact and not too old to contend.

I don't trust Stan when it comes to trying to "pull an Yzerman." And I don't think Panarin is the type of player he should be doing that with. There are also certain tax benefits Yzerman gets by virtue of GMing a team located in Florida, which Stan doesn't have.

Panarin's demands were reported to be between 6 and 6.5 million per year for 6 years. That is perfectly reasonable for a 25-year-old who scored 77 points in his first season and so far is backing it up by showing he wasn't a one-season wonder (which anyone with half a brain could have told you anyway).

If Stan thought he could get Panarin for LESS than that by waiting, that was a dumb pipe dream. If Panarin finishes with another really good season, his asking price will only go up. Not to mention that Panarin reportedly said he was leaving negotiations completely up to his agent, which is worrying, as I'm sure his agent will just try to get as much money as possible.

This team's left wing depth is in the ****ter and now we're in danger of losing the only good left wing we have. Trading Panarin is effectively saying the Hawks will not contend for the Cup anymore for a long, long time. If I were Stan I would sign him now instead of letting this drag dangerously on. Many, many people have run the numbers and concluded that it IS workable with the cap to sign Panarin to a 6-6.5 mil AAV contract. Might require moving Kruger if Vegas doesn't take him, but Panarin vs. Kruger is not a difficult decision whatsoever.

 

[LDF]

Well, I already explained why moving Panarin for "assets" does not help this team at all. This team should be going for the Cup every year while they can and while the core is still intact and not too old to contend.

I don't trust Stan when it comes to trying to "pull an Yzerman." And I don't think Panarin is the type of player he should be doing that with. There are also certain tax benefits Yzerman gets by virtue of GMing a team located in Florida, which Stan doesn't have.

Panarin's demands were reported to be between 6 and 6.5 million per year for 6 years. That is perfectly reasonable for a 25-year-old who scored 77 points in his first season and so far is backing it up by showing he wasn't a one-season wonder (which anyone with half a brain could have told you anyway).

If Stan thought he could get Panarin for LESS than that by waiting, that was a dumb pipe dream. If Panarin finishes with another really good season, his asking price will only go up. Not to mention that Panarin reportedly said he was leaving negotiations completely up to his agent, which is worrying, as I'm sure his agent will just try to get as much money as possible.

This team's left wing depth is in the ****ter and now we're in danger of losing the only good left wing we have. Trading Panarin is effectively saying the Hawks will not contend for the Cup anymore for a long, long time. If I were Stan I would sign him now instead of letting this drag dangerously on. Many, many people have run the numbers and concluded that it IS workable with the cap to sign Panarin to a 6-6.5 mil AAV contract. Might require moving Kruger if Vegas doesn't take him, but Panarin vs. Kruger is not a difficult decision whatsoever.

while i think JaegerDice is a great poster and many times i have been in agreement with him.

with this topic as it stands, your post if fantastic and right on the dime.

 

[JaegerDice]

Well, I already explained why moving Panarin for "assets" does not help this team at all. This team should be going for the Cup every year while they can and while the core is still intact and not too old to contend.

I don't trust Stan when it comes to trying to "pull an Yzerman." And I don't think Panarin is the type of player he should be doing that with. There are also certain tax benefits Yzerman gets by virtue of GMing a team located in Florida, which Stan doesn't have.

Panarin's demands were reported to be between 6 and 6.5 million per year for 6 years. That is perfectly reasonable for a 25-year-old who scored 77 points in his first season and so far is backing it up by showing he wasn't a one-season wonder (which anyone with half a brain could have told you anyway).

If Stan thought he could get Panarin for LESS than that by waiting, that was a dumb pipe dream. If Panarin finishes with another really good season, his asking price will only go up. Not to mention that Panarin reportedly said he was leaving negotiations completely up to his agent, which is worrying, as I'm sure his agent will just try to get as much money as possible.

This team's left wing depth is in the ****ter and now we're in danger of losing the only good left wing we have. Trading Panarin is effectively saying the Hawks will not contend for the Cup anymore for a long, long time. If I were Stan I would sign him now instead of letting this drag dangerously on. Many, many people have run the numbers and concluded that it IS workable with the cap to sign Panarin to a 6-6.5 mil AAV contract. Might require moving Kruger if Vegas doesn't take him, but Panarin vs. Kruger is not a difficult decision whatsoever.

*shrugs*

Frankly, Im not of the opinion that the situation is as urgent as you feel.

Panarin is an RFA, the only real threat is from an offer sheet in a league where they never happen.

I dont blame Stan for sticking to a price early in the negotiation, especially when we still dont know what the cap will do.

The Blackhawks have, for better or worse, identified their core with the contracts theh have handed out. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Crawford.

The rest fit around them. If they refuse, they are moved for pieces that will.

 

[LDF]

*shrugs*

Frankly, Im not of the opinion that the situation is as urgent as you feel.

Panarin is an RFA, the only real threat is from an offer sheet in a league where they never happen.

I dont blame Stan for sticking to a price early in the negotiation, especially when we still dont know what the cap will do. i do, he has been proven he can't do it. not identifying, but the actual negotiations

The Blackhawks have, for better or worse, identified their core with the contracts theh have handed out. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Crawford. and i am sorry, you are not adding AA nor panarin to that core???

The rest fit around them. If they refuse, they are moved for pieces that will.

and i also don't agree in moving them for pieces.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

and i also don't agree in moving them for pieces.

Panarin is not a member of the core until he is locked into a long term deal, regardless of fan opinions.

How many fans prematurely wrote Saad into the core with a permanent marker?

 

[JaegerDice]

and i also don't agree in moving them for pieces.

Panarin is no more core than Saad was when he was traded.

Anisimov isnt really core either given the success this team had without a 2C. They won 3 cups with a center castoff-turned winger-turned center (and back to winger), a guy on what should have been his retirement lap, and a guy bought out with nothing to lose.

Do I like both players? Sure. Are they most likely to be among the fat cut should the cap go the wrong way or a trade deal comes about? Yes.

 

[LDF]

Panarin is not a member of the core until he is locked into a long term deal, regardless of fan opinions.

How many fans prematurely wrote Saad into the core with a permanent marker? and here is where i disagree, it was SB screw up and he underrated saad, b/c he thought he could replace him. now look, how many yrs have the team been trying to find a viable replacement???

Panarin is no more core than Saad was when he was traded.

Anisimov isnt really core either given the success this team had without a 2C. They won 3 cups with a center castoff-turned winger-turned center (and back to winger), a guy on what should have been his retirement lap, and a guy bought out with nothing to lose.

Do I like both players? Sure. Are they most likely to be among the fat cut should the cap go the wrong way or a trade deal comes about? Yes.

there is a strong point in both of your excellent counters, but i will add a new one.

panarin is identified as a core, based on talent, elite talent. as a result of this, he needs to be locked up and immediately.

jd, ref the bold, excellent counter and i can not think of a response.

 

[Hawkaholic]

*shrugs*

Frankly, Im not of the opinion that the situation is as urgent as you feel.

Panarin is an RFA, the only real threat is from an offer sheet in a league where they never happen.

I dont blame Stan for sticking to a price early in the negotiation, especially when we still dont know what the cap will do.

The Blackhawks have, for better or worse, identified their core with the contracts theh have handed out. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Crawford.

The rest fit around them. If they refuse, they are moved for pieces that will.

He could go back to Russia, and then the Hawks get nothing at all for him.

 

[BobbyJet]

At this point, I feel this is the more likely end. I now feel it's about a 60% chance his RFA rights are traded this summer, and I feel that number increases as everyday goes by.

I forget which podcast I was listening to (Powers' or Zawaski's) but one of them recently said Panarin's preseason ask was more like a $6.5M AAV, not $6M. His agent has every right to increase that ask based on what Panarin has shown this season.

I've been mentally preparing myself to see Panarin go for months, and as each day passes without a new deal, it seems more and more likely he will go. In the meantime, I'm just trying to enjoy watching him in a Hawks jersey while I can.

Yeah. I think Stan was biding his time somewhat, and at the same time gambling that Panarin would not reach the same level of play this season - and he started rather slowly with signs that he may go through (his version of) a sophomore slump. But that is looking far less likely now. Stan had better get serious about signing this guy.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Yeah. I think Stan was biding his time somewhat, and at the same time gambling that Panarin would not reach the same level of play this season - and he started rather slowly with signs that he may go through (his version of) a sophomore slump. But that is looking far less likely now. Stan had better get serious about signing this guy.

Maybe Stan is banking on DeBrincat ultimately being a similar/cheaper fit with Kane and Anisimov, while flipping Panarin's rights for a winger who will fit with Toews.

I really don't know what to make of Bowman's strategy here, but that's a scenario that may be part of his playbook.

 

[BobbyJet]

Maybe Stan is banking on DeBrincat ultimately being a similar/cheaper fit with Kane and Anisimov, while flipping Panarin's rights for a winger who will fit with Toews.

I really don't know what to make of Bowman's strategy here, but that's a scenario that may be part of his playbook.

It's a good point though. That $ 21 M will be on the books for years, dictating much of what can or can't get get done. Unless something gives (a major trade and/or a big salary cap increase) this has to be Hawks' strategy going forward. A player like DeBrincat making the squad would be a huge bonus - similar to the hope for Schmaltz, Forsling and Motte (all making ELC's, 2 of the 3 still with Hawks and Schmaltz shouldn't be in RFD for long).

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Panarin is no more core than Saad was when he was traded.

Anisimov isnt really core either given the success this team had without a 2C. They won 3 cups with a center castoff-turned winger-turned center (and back to winger), a guy on what should have been his retirement lap, and a guy bought out with nothing to lose.

Do I like both players? Sure. Are they most likely to be among the fat cut should the cap go the wrong way or a trade deal comes about? Yes.

Panarin is better than Saad. He absolutely should be a core piece.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Panarin is better than Saad. He absolutely should be a core piece.

Agreed. Still wouldn't mind playing a little hardball with him though. I would be much more upset about losing Panarin than I was with Saad.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Panarin is better than Saad. He absolutely should be a core piece.

I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but he's just not part of the core yet.