Out of town thread: Where the grass is ALWAYS greener!

[417]

Radulov has points in 9 of his last games but he actually has 13 points in his last 9 games.

Those numbers....so complementary.

So cheap or you to wait until he's hot to start talking ****...

You were nowhere to be found when all Radulov could do was score on empty nets.

And you'll be nowhere to be found when be inevitably cools off.

Did I come here then and brag and boast about his lukewarm start?

Nah, I'm not that cheap and I fully expected him to put up points eventually.

But I also fully expect that when the season is done, the Stars won't be any better for having added him.

Because THAT'S what complimentary players do...

We should know, we have a complimentary player who scored 35 goals a year and we're not any better for it.

But it's cool...blow your load early, I'll play the long game, just like I did with Plekanec lol

 

[417]

I think the standard you are setting is an argument in bad faith. If the criteria for a successful transaction is a piece that makes us a contender nothing short of acquiring Crosby/McDavid is worth exploring? Since at this point we are multiple pieces away from being a contender.

Currently our lineup needs the following to be considered a contender(imo) :

Pacioretty - 1C - Gallagher
Lekhonen - Galchenyuk - Drouin
Byron - Danault - Shaw

1D - Weber
Alzner - 4PMD
Schlemko - Petry

It's safe to say we don't have the prospects or extra players to acquire such assets. Holding your breath for UFA Tavares is like the Leafs doing the same for Stamkos.

The point being acquiring Radulov makes us a better team as no player available (within our reach) will turn us into a contender. If the objective is to ice the best team possible our GM royally failed.

I agree with the needs you identified (look at that, there's me, once again, taking the time to understand and validate an opposing view, sure would be nice to get that reciprocated).

But the bolded part is where I disconnect...adding Radulov to fill a position you already identified doesn't need filling, just makes filling the needs you did identify, more difficult to address.

The Habs don't need to spend more money to be mediocre, they're doing that just fine right now.

 

[417]

Well it's not like he would make us worse. Look at what he did for us last year.

What did he do for us last year?

I was under the impression the Habs bowed out of the 1st round?

They could do that this year without Radulov

 

[McGuires Corndog]

What did he do for us last year?

I was under the impression the Habs bowed out of the 1st round?

They could do that this year without Radulov

Might not make it there without Radulov.

What he did was help us be more of a threat offensively, which is a huge problem for this team.

Is he a saviour? No, just like PK Subban isn't a savior either. Or Markov. But doesn't change the fact we'd be a much better team with all of them in the line up.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I may have been wrong about Hanzal...that's fine, despite what you claim, I don't claim to be right all the time or be flawless in my predictions

I'm not a freaking Oracle or fortune teller.

We're weak down the middle, I suggested this offseason we get rid of Plekanec and use Hanzal in the role Plekanec is currently playing.

Yeah, we know, ''you're not trying to be right.'' Which explains a lot.

I don't know what part of this ludicrous post you want me to address...

The part where you're comparing McDavid and Radulov?

Or the weak *** strawmen you attempted to craft in your quotation?

My premise is very simple to understand, I don't think Radulov does much for this team, you add him to this exact lineup and I still think we're a .500 team, just like the mighty Stars are.

And we'll continue to be a .500 team untio the GM addresses the center ice and the Defence.

Radulov for all his wonderful qualities, does NOT address ANY of those needs, he just makes addressing those needs all that more difficult.

LMAO, the Iron Lion swings and misses yet again. Pro-tip, it uses much less energy when you actually connect from time to time.

That post, rather than drawing a positive comparison between Radulov and McDavid actually relies on McDavid being a strictly, inarguably much better player than Radulov. The point, cut into nice little bite size chewables for you is this:

Assumption 1.) McDavid is wayyyyyy better than Radulov

Premise 1.) McDavid seems to be having trouble single handedly changing the fortunes of an entire organization at the moment.

Inference from Assumption 1 and Premise 1: Since it's not really a thing that even the best player can do, the expectation for a lesser player to do it is ridiculous, and so is the related proposition that just because he can't change our entire fortunes, doesn't mean we wouldn't be strictly better (by a lot).

And I'll repeat what I retorted this offseason, there were and are replacements for Radulov, we're not talking about replacing Guy Lafleur here, it's not my fault the GM seems incapable of doing something, that's on him, not me.

Yeah we were just all suspiciously right that there were no replacements, and one of the replacements you suggested (Hanzal) was shown to be laughably inferior to Radulov through their play on the exact same team. It's just such a suspicious coincidence, and definitely no inferences can be drawn from it.

So focusing on getting a star/leader is going to do nothing.

But re-signing Radulov is going to do what exactly?

You can focus on whatever you like. I sometimes like to focus on *something lewd involving a wildly unattainable woman*, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. You need to have a realistic plan to achieve it. Saying that you're not doing something that will improve your lot in life right now because you're ''focusing'' on something way better is how you end up doing nothing.

 

[NotProkofievian]

So cheap or you to wait until he's hot to start talking ****...

You were nowhere to be found when all Radulov could do was score on empty nets.

And you'll be nowhere to be found when be inevitably cools off.

Did I come here then and brag and boast about his lukewarm start?

Nah, I'm not that cheap and I fully expected him to put up points eventually.

But I also fully expect that when the season is done, the Stars won't be any better for having added him.

Because THAT'S what complimentary players do...

We should know, we have a complimentary player who scored 35 goals a year and we're not any better for it.

But it's cool...blow your load early, I'll play the long game, just like I did with Plekanec lol

LMAO.

Yeah, you feel free to go to war with ''Radulov wouldn't have done anything!'' after a 60 point season. I'll have you note that this prediction actually accounts for the inevitable scoring droughts he'll encounter throughout the rest of the season.

 

[Vodka_Tonic]

I agree with the needs you identified (look at that, there's me, once again, taking the time to understand and validate an opposing view, sure would be nice to get that reciprocated).

But the bolded part is where I disconnect...adding Radulov to fill a position you already identified doesn't need filling, just makes filling the needs you did identify, more difficult to address.

The Habs don't need to spend more money to be mediocre, they're doing that just fine right now.

Point is, having Radulov allows you to use another winger for a trade. Pacioretty for example.

And by the way, you build depth by adding at the top lines, pushing lesser players down the depth chart.
Adding bottom line players does nothing for your depth, you just stockpile warm bodies.

 

[le_sean]

He tried to get Radulov. I don’t know why people keep shitting on Bergevin for this. There are plenty of things to hate him for, but he actually tried with this one. It’s tough to commit $7m per year to a 31 year old that was clearly incapable of playing an 82 game schedule. He coasted the second half of the season. He’s not going to all of a sudden get in shape at this point in his career.

Plus you sign him and what leverage do you have? You still have a gaping hole at C with no cap space.

 

[DXStriker]

He tried to get Radulov. I don’t know why people keep ****ting on Bergevin for this. There are plenty of things to hate him for, but he actually tried with this one. It’s tough to commit $7m per year to a 31 year old that was clearly incapable of playing an 82 game schedule. He coasted the second half of the season. He’s not going to all of a sudden get in shape at this point in his career.

Plus you sign him and what leverage do you have? You still have a gaping hole at C with no cap space.

The top 6 C is something everyone agrees on but unless one agrees to come here via free agency its too hard to trade lol

For the Radulov thing it comes down to the window and the ages of Weber/Price . if we give Radulov 6 to 8 years , even if he sucks for the last 3 or 4 , are we going to be a contender with price and weber above 35 taking 18 mil on the cap.

If the next couple years is our window then i would have went all in on radulov (8yrs) .

He was our best playoff player by a MILE , having Drouin and Radulov on the same line or on different lines would have been amazing

 

[ECWHSWI]

So cheap or you to wait until he's hot to start talking ****...

You were nowhere to be found when all Radulov could do was score on empty nets.

And you'll be nowhere to be found when be inevitably cools off.

Did I come here then and brag and boast about his lukewarm start?

Nah, I'm not that cheap and I fully expected him to put up points eventually.

But I also fully expect that when the season is done, the Stars won't be any better for having added him.

Because THAT'S what complimentary players do...

We should know, we have a complimentary player who scored 35 goals a year and we're not any better for it.

But it's cool...blow your load early, I'll play the long game, just like I did with Plekanec lol

think I'll start playing the long game too...


Drouin sucks.

 

[Kriss E]

He tried to get Radulov. I don’t know why people keep ****ting on Bergevin for this. There are plenty of things to hate him for, but he actually tried with this one. It’s tough to commit $7m per year to a 31 year old that was clearly incapable of playing an 82 game schedule. He coasted the second half of the season. He’s not going to all of a sudden get in shape at this point in his career.

Plus you sign him and what leverage do you have? You still have a gaping hole at C with no cap space.

Well, ya, you have a hole at C, which we still have today, but we don't have to worry about who is going to play wing for us if we package Pacioretty for a center.

You're right, Bergevin tried, but coming on TV saying it's first come first serve made him look a little foolish. Like the salesman who thinks he has a deal in the bag...but really...he doesn't.
He should have been more proactive into alternatives. Same for Markov. If he isn't coming back, Shatterkirk should have absolutely been a target.

Bergevin was not well prepared, he was careless.

 

[sandviper]

I think the obvious thing should be that Radulov would have been an asset for us offensively had we been able to retain him. I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise. He's not a center, clearly a position of need, but he is both creative offensively and a real dog on the puck.

Sure, he's a winger and we are loaded with those, but that is a good problem to have. The problem now is we are too easy to shut down (like we were last playoffs). Before, the other team can just shut Radulov down and the rest of the team can't score. Now, they shut Drouin down and we are in the same boat. Obviously, if we had both Radulov and Drouin, things get tougher for the opponent.

Anyhow, Radulov is gone so there isn't much we can do other than hope others pick it up. I genuinely think that can be Hudon, but I'm not getting the feeling the team is putting him in the best position to succeed.

 

[Kriss E]

But I also fully expect that when the season is done, the Stars won't be any better for having added him.

Radulov plays what...20min? Not even..? And we all agree he isn't a premiere player like a Crosby or McDavid.
So yea, he isn't going to have such an impact that the Stars are going to coast through other their other problems during 66%+ of the time he isn't on the ice.

As someone else said, it isn't about McDavid vs Radulov. It's to show that even generational talent such as McDavid aren't full proof for their team to be successful. It doesn't mean that he doesn't make their team better. Of course he does.
Same with Radulov but to a lesser extent. He isn't near McDavid. He is a complementary player as you say, but that is still a top 3-6 player that contributes, so yes, of course he helps the team and makes it better. He isn't going to erase the rest of their problems though. That isn't an argument.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well this offseason...that's what I was told.

That the additions of Bishop, Methot, Hanzal and especially Radulov were the type of moves that showed just how great Jim Nill was, that's what I was told.

I remember questioning how good Bishop really was, how Methot would fare away from EK and how Radulov, while being a good player, can't change an entire teams fortune on his own.

Oddly Enough, that's exactly what we're seeing in Dallas.

Alot of people lament the loss of Radulov and I'll say it right now, if I had known the alternative would be nothing, I'd never have been so vehemently opposed to NOT committing beyond 3yrs...

However, I STILL maintain that this GM needs to focus on acquiring a player who can star/lead for this team and I don't think Rads is that player.

The Habs do not have a Seguin or Benn or league leading PP here.

If Radulov would be on this team as we speak, I STILL think we'd be a .500 hockey team but we'd also be a capped out .500 hockey team.

And that's not a more desirable outcome for me.

That's as a diplomatic of a post on the topic as I can make.

Diplomatic but not entirely true. The idea is to improve your team. Is adding Bishop an improvement over Niemi and Lehtonen. Saying no is disingeneous. Adding Methot to a young D core was the thing to do. And adding Radulov, well his stats speak for itself. He doesn't change the team but the good news is that he'just not signed for 1 year. And there is nothing that suggest that Dallas won't improve over the years when he'll still play a key role. Some thought that just signing that big contract would have made him slow down. Doesn't seem like he is. As far as Hanzal is concerned, no idea where you are taking this. Most people in here wanted no part of him. But why the continuous comparing with Nill? 'Cause some thought he was better than Bergevin and somehow, if he is finally not, it makes Bergevin better?

Of course one player doesn't change an entire team fortune, we are suppose to have the best goalie that has ever played the game of hockey, and we will haven't reached a 3rd round with him. And with him this year, we were not going to make the playoffs. BUt if we always had to wait till we have great player to add other great players....shouldn't we rebuild then?

So let's not be sad about Sergachev....there are no Stamkos and Kucherov here. Let's not be sad about Radulov, there are no Seguin and Benn here. The day that people realized that we have NOBODY here that can support great players...isn't it time to cut the crap and realize that we are not 1 or 2 players away and that we should rebuild? We never have anybody to play with anybody. We never have anybody to give in a trade. But somehow, comparing ourselves to Jim Nill makes us feel better?

It's impossible to know where we would be with Radulov. He'd surely not have as many points as we do, but to think that he wouldn't help more than Byron or Shaw, is also really disingenous. It's all great to think that Radulov is solely a product of Benn and Seguin, but then, and you said it yourself, we don't have a Benn or a Seguin here so...how in the world was he able to do so great with us? Radulov is NOT a product. He makes things. And we don't have a lot of those guys here. THAT is what we don't have.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He tried to get Radulov. I don’t know why people keep ****ting on Bergevin for this. There are plenty of things to hate him for, but he actually tried with this one. It’s tough to commit $7m per year to a 31 year old that was clearly incapable of playing an 82 game schedule. He coasted the second half of the season. He’s not going to all of a sudden get in shape at this point in his career.

Bergy first of all refused to sign Radu to 2 years. It's not that he didn't think of it: Radulov did that thinking for him. But he flat out refused to sign him for 2 years. The fact that he even had to try to re-sign him this summer was Bergevin's own fault. The fact that he failed to re-sign him is just more his fault.

He tried? Who f***ing cares. He didn't do it.

Plus you sign him and what leverage do you have? You still have a gaping hole at C with no cap space.

Leverage on what? What ''leverage'' is cap space giving us? Seems to me like we have the gaping hole to which you refer right now, and we're less a #complementarywinger.

 

[Whitesnake]

My premise is very simple to understand, I don't think Radulov does much for this team, you add him to this exact lineup and I still think we're a .500 team, just like the mighty Stars are. And we'll continue to be a .500 team untio the GM addresses the center ice and the Defence.Radulov for all his wonderful qualities, does NOT address ANY of those needs, he just makes addressing those needs all that more difficult.

So I guess that means that you were against the Drouin for Sergachev deal? 'Cause since we all know and understand Drouin is not a real centerman, despite what you thought, and maybe still think, we got rid of a d-man that could have played with Weber, to add a guy who would be better served as a winger and is only a C because we really have nobody else. Like nobody. Did Drouin alone changed the team fortune? I guess not.....so it makes it a bad move?

 

[Whitesnake]

This Habs teams, aside from never being able to reach a Finals in 25 years, didn't have a lot of exciting hockey to see. Then came a young d-man filled with talent....but we just had to get rid of him because...because. Then came in Radulov who kinda took his place and was loved a whole lot but...we couldn't commit to him. Cause hey,....too many years...too much money. But at least, we gave Petry his contract....gave Shaw his contract....gave Plekanec his 6M$.....so THAT was fine 'cause we were able to look stupid on term, but okay on money....something which we wouldn't have been able to be with Radulov but yet...probably the one player that would have deserved it. In the meantime, we will pretend that Petry and Shaw contracts are not a problem. Just like we were able to convince ourselves that Emelin wasn't a problem. And just like some are really able to convince themselves that Price's contract isn't a problem. I guess time will tell. In the meantime, let's builid our team the way NOBODY else's does, and let's believe that we understood something nobody else did....till the end of year press conference that we will be dissapointed, but it was understandable as we lost Price and Montoya, as we didn't have Schlemko for most of the year, oh and here's a 20% augmentation on price tickets for next year....

 

[417]

Radulov plays what...20min? Not even..? And we all agree he isn't a premiere player like a Crosby or McDavid.
So yea, he isn't going to have such an impact that the Stars are going to coast through other their other problems during 66%+ of the time he isn't on the ice.

As someone else said, it isn't about McDavid vs Radulov. It's to show that even generational talent such as McDavid aren't full proof for their team to be successful. It doesn't mean that he doesn't make their team better. Of course he does.
Same with Radulov but to a lesser extent. He isn't near McDavid. He is a complementary player as you say, but that is still a top 3-6 player that contributes, so yes, of course he helps the team and makes it better. He isn't going to erase the rest of their problems though. That isn't an argument.

Somehow, I get the feeling you'll get off much easier for calling Radulov a complimentary player, than I have/will.

As for the rest of your post...fair enough.

 

[417]

This Habs teams, aside from never being able to reach a Finals in 25 years, didn't have a lot of exciting hockey to see. Then came a young d-man filled with talent....but we just had to get rid of him because...because. Then came in Radulov who kinda took his place and was loved a whole lot but...we couldn't commit to him. Cause hey,....too many years...too much money. But at least, we gave Petry his contract....gave Shaw his contract....gave Plekanec his 6M$.....so THAT was fine 'cause we were able to look stupid on term, but okay on money....something which we wouldn't have been able to be with Radulov but yet...probably the one player that would have deserved it. In the meantime, we will pretend that Petry and Shaw contracts are not a problem. Just like we were able to convince ourselves that Emelin wasn't a problem. And just like some are really able to convince themselves that Price's contract isn't a problem. I guess time will tell. In the meantime, let's builid our team the way NOBODY else's does, and let's believe that we understood something nobody else did....till the end of year press conference that we will be dissapointed, but it was understandable as we lost Price and Montoya, as we didn't have Schlemko for most of the year, oh and here's a 20% augmentation on price tickets for next year....

Radulov kinda took Subban's place?

Subban almost singlehandedly won us playoff series, he won a Norris, was an all star, represented the Canadians internationally.

Define "kinda"

 

[DAChampion]

Subban almost singlehandedly won us playoff series,

According to you, the Habs were close to beating the NYR last year.

If that's true, then "Radulov almost singlehandedly won us a playoff series."

 

[417]

According to you, the Habs were close to beating the NYR last year.

If that's true, then "Radulov almost singlehandedly won us a playoff series."

Except we went to 2 eastern conference finals with Subban starring in each of them.

To compare ANYTHING Subban did with the Habs to anything Radulov did last year is ridiculous.

And just highlights how overrated he was by fans here.

Sorry, don't mean to be disrespectful...but that's a joke.

Subban's first playoff series he shadowed Crosby and Ovechkin back to back

Subbban literally willed the Habs to come within an OT goal of beating the Bruins, with an under manned Habs team the year the Bruins won the Cup.

Radulov was our best player games 1 through 3 in a playoff series we lost. He was a non-factor in the most important games of the series.

How insulting to Subban to even put them in the same breath.

You know you've reached fanaticism when Subbaniacs are lumping Radulov in with him.

 

[le_sean]

Leverage on what? What ''leverage'' is cap space giving us? Seems to me like we have the gaping hole to which you refer right now, and we're less a #complementarywinger.

Leverage on having a realistic shot at signing John Tavares. Leverage on taking advantage of teams in cap trouble, like the Oilers and RNH.

It’s nice to have a glut of wingers with the dream of trading one for a centre, but if that was the case, it would have already happened. Or do people still expect to get Getzlaf for Charles Hudon?

 

[NotProkofievian]

Leverage on having a realistic shot at signing John Tavares. Leverage on taking advantage of teams in cap trouble, like the Oilers and RNH.

It’s nice to have a glut of wingers with the dream of trading one for a centre, but if that was the case, it would have already happened. Or do people still expect to get Getzlaf for Charles Hudon?

Uuuggggghhhhhhhhh.

Do quote this post when that happens.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Leverage on having a realistic shot at signing John Tavares. Leverage on taking advantage of teams in cap trouble, like the Oilers and RNH.

It’s nice to have a glut of wingers with the dream of trading one for a centre, but if that was the case, it would have already happened. Or do people still expect to get Getzlaf for Charles Hudon?

Oilers have $13 mil in cap space with a flat cap next year with Nurse being the only must sign piece. Even if they give raises to Maroon, Strome and Benning, they'll be fine. They're also well positioned to pay Talbot and Puljujarvi the next year. Montreal has less cap space than them going into next offseason and have just as many important contract decisions in the next few years. Oilers aren't in cap trouble.

 

[le_sean]

Uuuggggghhhhhhhhh.

Do quote this post when that happens.

A realistic shot? They will have cap space and desire, that’s a realistic shot. But judging by the theme of your posts, you will just deny everything.