Pre-Game Talk: Ottawa @ Columbus Wed. Night on SportsNet 7:00 pm

[Micklebot]

Guys that do different things... I agree to an extent. You need guys who can PK, guys who can run a PP, guys who can put the puck in the net, guys who can prevent pucks from going in your own net....

But, I think
1. Guys with more than one skill (Condra = PK, possession, shut down forward) >>> guys with one skill (Neil = hitting).
2. Neil's skill isn't that useful. The other team plays keep away from him when he's on the ice - does this really wear down the other team as you suggest? Seems like it wears down Ottawa's players more than anything, more running around.

Look, I'm not in the Neil camp, I'm not really a fan, but aggitators have a role in this league. Neil might not be able to fill that role like he used to, but if the coach wants to be able to deploy someone to do that, Condra would have been a terrible choice. 8 mins a night of Neil crashing hard into the oppositions D while their 4th line forwards are out there might be worth it, or it might not. But, if the coach want's that dynamic in the lineup, then he's currently the best option we have.

Also worth pointing out, Neil currently has the 3rd lowest CA/60 on the team. The don't generate a lot of shot attempts as they pretty much exclusively dump and chase, and lack the skill to create offense off the cycle, but they haven't been getting hemmed in their own zone any worse than the other lines.

 

[Rodzilla]

Look, I'm not in the Neil camp, I'm not really a fan, but aggitators have a role in this league. Neil might not be able to fill that role like he used to, but if the coach wants to be able to deploy someone to do that, Condra would have been a terrible choice. 8 mins a night of Neil crashing hard into the oppositions D while their 4th line forwards are out there might be worth it, or it might not. But, if the coach want's that dynamic in the lineup, then he's currently the best option we have.

Also worth pointing out, Neil currently has the 3rd lowest CA/60 on the team. The don't generate a lot of shot attempts as they pretty much exclusively dump and chase, and lack the skill to create offense off the cycle, but they haven't been getting hemmed in their own zone any worse than the other lines.

I think the problem people in here have is that we don't see Neil disturb the opposing teams like he once did. He bumps them a little but I don't think opposing team are really worried he's on the ice anymore.

 

[jbeck5]

I think the problem people in here have is that we don't see Neil disturb the opposing teams like he once did. He bumps them a little but I don't think opposing team are really worried he's on the ice anymore.

That's because he hasn't had a big hit on someone since his hit on boychuk a couple years ago. He's a non factor physically. He's too slow to catch people with their head down and have them hearing footsteps and playing nervous. Kind of pointless to have Neil playing a regular shift at this point. He's never been a possession player either...

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Nope, still no Wideman/Prince.

*Loudly Exhales*

 

[BondraTime]

Baffled at Prince sitting, somewhat understand Widemam

 

[bert]

Hoffman - Turris - Stone
Prince - Zibanejad - Ryan
MacArthur - Pageau - Lazar
Michalek - Smith - Chiasson

Methot - Karlsson
Cowen - Ceci
Borowiecki - Wideman

Anderson

...should be the lineup for the next couple games

Prince was the 2nd best forward in the pre-season and should have been on the starting roster. Loss to the Habs removes the "winning team" excuse that keeps inferior players in the lineup.

Wideman needs to draw in immediately. Patty Wiercioch needs at least 2-3 games off to get his head removed from his ass. Beyond terrible play to start the season.

While I agree id like to see Wideman and that Wier hasnt been great but if anyone has paid any attention at all last year sitting Wiercioch does not work. He is a confidence player and really has only had one bad game. If you want him to be useless the rest of the season or atleast for a long stretch making him a healthy after one poor performance is the sure fire way to do it. Good thing Cameron is paying attention.

Boro and Cowen were also no good in the last game. Not sure why Wier is on a shorter leash than they are right now but I guess everyone around here has there motive for who sits and who doesnt.

Personally id sit out Boro because I know he has the mental toughness to deal with it. Cowen has certainly been better than last year but sens fans have such short memories and are going overboard only because the only comparible we have for him is an AHL level d man. If anything id probably sit the 4 of them down and explain unless they are all playing lights out one guy is going to rotate in and out of the lineup.

Id also like to see Prince come in he played so well in pre season time to give him a shot.

 

[Rodzilla]

While I agree id like to see Wideman and that Wier hasnt been great but if anyone has paid any attention at all last year sitting Wiercioch does not work. He is a confidence player and really has only had one bad game.

Boro and Cowen were also no good in the last game. Not sure why Wier is on a shorter leash than they are right now but I guess everyone around here has there motive for who sits and who doesnt.

He was awful versus both Toronto and Montreal and meh versus Buffalo, I think we'll see our top 4 get exposed a lot versus the Jackets and Penguins, my question is at what point do we look elsewhere for help in the top 4 ? He's been here more than one year and his major flaws never improved. I didn't see him get faster nor stronger, he's always been the weak slow skating tall guy.

 

[WhiteLight*]

He was awful versus both Toronto and Montreal and meh versus Buffalo, I think we'll see our top 4 get exposed a lot versus the Jackets and Penguins, my question is at what point do we look elsewhere for help in the top 4 ? He's been here more than one year and his major flaws never improved. I didn't see him get faster nor stronger, he's always been the weak slow skating tall guy.

It's time.


We need to Cowen or Wiercioch <----> #2 d-man.

Now.

 

[aragorn]

The pre-season is not the regular season, the regular season is not the playoffs & the 1s rd is not the same as 2nd, 3rd or 4th rds. As we move along in the hockey season the intensity continues to go up & the team has to be able to match it or find themselves out of it.

On Neil, the first time one of our skilled guys gets a cheap shot & is hurt, the majority on here will be calling on Neil to settle the score. When everyone's favourite son Karlsson got punched in the head by Brian Boyle the majority on here were on board with Matt Carkner dropping Boyle. We don't need Neil until we need him, if we remove all of the toughness from this lineup that already doesn't have very much on it, the skill players will pay the price. That's what Quinn & the Leafs did was go after our skilled players, that's what we did against Montreal a couple of yrs ago in the playoffs to beat them & that is what teams will do to a small, soft Ottawa team.

Besides Neil is not what the problem is, Ryan, Zibanejad, Lazar & a few other of the guys we expect to be better & produce pts & are not is the problem right now. The lack of secondary scoring besides the Hoffman, Turris & Stone trio is the probem, the lack of scoring from any defenceman besides Karlsson is also a problem & our goalies have to be better. Neil is one very small component of this team who plays the lowest minutes. But of course everyone wants to see how Prince will do at the expense of the loyal soldier who has given his all for this franchise.

 

[Icelevel]

at least macarthur and lazar swapped to start

 

[Baby Ryan]

The pre-season is not the regular season, the regular season is not the playoffs & the 1s rd is not the same as 2nd, 3rd or 4th rds. As we move along in the hockey season the intensity continues to go up & the team has to be able to match it or find themselves out of it.

On Neil, the first time one of our skilled guys gets a cheap shot & is hurt, the majority on here will be calling on Neil to settle the score. When everyone's favourite son Karlsson got punched in the head by Brian Boyle the majority on here were on board with Matt Carkner dropping Boyle. We don't need Neil until we need him, if we remove all of the toughness from this lineup that already doesn't have very much on it, the skill players will pay the price. That's what Quinn & the Leafs did was go after our skilled players, that's what we did against Montreal a couple of yrs ago in the playoffs to beat them & that is what teams will do to a small, soft Ottawa team.

Besides Neil is not what the problem is, Ryan, Zibanejad, Lazar & a few other of the guys we expect to be better & produce pts & are not is the problem right now. The lack of secondary scoring besides the Hoffman, Turris & Stone trio is the probem, the lack of scoring from any defenceman besides Karlsson is also a problem & our goalies have to be better. Neil is one very small component of this team who plays the lowest minutes. But of course everyone wants to see how Prince will do at the expense of the loyal soldier who has given his all for this franchise.

I agree especially with the bolded

I think we have the right players, but the wrong formation. Would like to see Prince in too but oh well.

Pageau and MacA next to Ryan is much better than having Zibby there in between. Faster wheels and better play making to help Ryan. Put Zibby with Michalek and Lazar/Chiasson for a more possession/checking type of line that if things click, has the potential to put up good points.

As for defense, we don't have enough 'offensive minded' D in the lineup that can be relied on game in game out to create some chances outside of EK. Chabot looks to be that guy, but obviously not yet.

Would've like to Neil to show DSP a thing or two for going on Turris in the Habs game though.

 

[bert]

He was awful versus both Toronto and Montreal and meh versus Buffalo, I think we'll see our top 4 get exposed a lot versus the Jackets and Penguins, my question is at what point do we look elsewhere for help in the top 4 ? He's been here more than one year and his major flaws never improved. I didn't see him get faster nor stronger, he's always been the weak slow skating tall guy.

Him and Ceci were both very good against Buffalo he was also great down the stretch last year this team doesnt make the playoffs without him. I dont think he was nearly as bad as everyone else does against Toronto especially comparing him to Cowen and Boro but its obvious you have your bias like many people around here. He wiffed on a couple pucks and can certainly play better but to just mail it in and bury him is not the way to go about it. You clearly value certain skills in d men more than others based on your break down, i also dont know what the 'he has been here longer than a year' has anything to do with it. I am not going to argue the entire board here he can play better but I have a longer memory than 3 games.

 

[Rodzilla]

Him and Ceci were both very good against Buffalo he was also great down the stretch last year this team doesnt make the playoffs without him. I dont think he was nearly as bad as everyone else does against Toronto especially comparing him to Cowen and Boro but its obvious you have your bias like many people around here. He wiffed on a couple pucks and can certainly play better but to just mail it in and bury him is not the way to go about it. You clearly value certain skills in d men more than others based on your break down, i also dont know what the 'he has been here longer than a year' has anything to do with it. I am not going to argue the entire board here he can play better but I have a longer memory than 3 games.

So because we critic a player we have a bias ? Or are we simply realist? Not saying you're wrong, he did play good last year, and like you said he's a confidence player, so if we want him to succeed we can't really scratch him, what I am saying is that he's not a top 4 dmen, and never will be. Been here longer than a year has to do with the fact that I expect improvement, if you're not scoring 60+ pts I expect you to be good at other things, what is Weir good at? First pass, when he's fast enough to make one. He's weak along the boards, he will take stupid hooking penalties, he'll interfere with people. He'll get muscled off the puck, chase people, get caught from behind and get his stick lift. I'm sure you see all those things too. Do you think we'll contend with Weir on the 2nd pair?


I'm arguing just for arguing here, of course I'll give him more than 3 games, but I also have a longer memory than the 20 games where everything went right for the team and masked a lot of his flaws. Aside from that, his time here has been average to mediocre.

 

[Six Assets]

My boy Ryan will score 2 goals today

 

[Othello*]

WhiteLight dropping truth in this thread.

 

[Ouroboros]

My boy Ryan will score 2 goals today

I have to assume you mean Johansen, right?

 

[Uchiha]

Neil's style of play is outdated and obsolete. There's no benefit of having him in the lineup while sitting Prince - who is much better than most of the bottom six.

 

[Micklebot]

Neil's style of play is outdated and obsolete. There's no benefit of having him in the lineup while sitting Prince - who is much better than most of the bottom six.

Realistically, we shouldn't be deciding between Neil and Prince. It should be between Neil and Chiasson.

I've been happy with both relative to expectations I have for them, but I'd still prefer Prince in the lineup over either.

Same goes with Boro vs Wideman; I'd rather Wideman in even though Boro hasn't really disapointed. Wier has struggled, but I'd like to give him around 10 games before making a decision.

 

[BonkTastic]

I think the problem people in here have is that we don't see Neil disturb the opposing teams like he once did. He bumps them a little but I don't think opposing team are really worried he's on the ice anymore.

Yeah, I'm not trying to champion Chris Neil here, he's in the twilight of his career, but even if you think that he should be out of the lineup for a "more skilled guy", we have a perfectly good Shane Prince sitting in the pressbox right now, and we have a lot of wingers (or centers who could be converted to wingers) who might be ready in Year 3 of Condra's contract with the Bolts. We're totally covered in both the short and the long term for that spot in the lineup.

So even if you dislike having Neil in the lineup, why is "Pining Over Erik Condra" the other side of that coin?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Pretty much this.

Zibby and Ryan need to get going. That's the big issue right now

The only reason you agree with him/her is because s/he has poutine as an avatar

You clearly are biased and your opinion has been invalidated good sir!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Nope, still no Wideman/Prince.

They likely draw in tomorrow unless things go really, really well tonight I suppose

 

[Back in Black]

3 Hours to go!

 

[Uchiha]

Realistically, we shouldn't be deciding between Neil and Prince. It should be between Neil and Chiasson.

I've been happy with both relative to expectations I have for them, but I'd still prefer Prince in the lineup over either.

Same goes with Boro vs Wideman; I'd rather Wideman in even though Boro hasn't really disapointed. Wier has struggled, but I'd like to give him around 10 games before making a decision.

If it's between Chiasson and Neil I'll take Chiasson every time.

Chiasson can actually be effective on the penalty kill and semi effective on the power play. He's just better than Neil in almost every aspect of the game. The only thing that Neil has over Chiasson is hitting/fighting.

The only downside with Chiasson is that he's a penalty machine, but Neil isn't a saint in that regard as well.

 

[Rodzilla]

Yeah, I'm not trying to champion Chris Neil here, he's in the twilight of his career, but even if you think that he should be out of the lineup for a "more skilled guy", we have a perfectly good Shane Prince sitting in the pressbox right now, and we have a lot of wingers (or centers who could be converted to wingers) who might be ready in Year 3 of Condra's contract with the Bolts. We're totally covered in both the short and the long term for that spot in the lineup.

So even if you dislike having Neil in the lineup, why is "Pining Over Erik Condra" the other side of that coin?

Oh I don't know, but to be honest like I said I respect Neil and even though he's too slow to do anything these days I kinda agree with Aragorn, or at least I think he's the least of our worries because I don't really believe teams would attack us more physically with Neil out but hey...


My biggest concern and I am starting to get annoying with it is the D's top 4 and the D's mobility, giving them 10 more games before I am in full out rage mode

 

[Stone Valley]

nothing less than a win will suffice, be that in regulation, OT, or SO....