Proposal: Official Dallas Stars Should Clean House Thread

[Kcb12345]

Dickinson doesn't do anything for me in the NHL. He honestly hasn't impressed me once with the Stars, and I was a big fan of the pick back in 2013.

Yet you think there's reason to believe Dickinson (hardly cutting it in the NHL right now) and Nichushkin (mediocre numbers in the KHL this year and last) could be on the 2nd line. I guess that could work if we're hoping for another lottery pick.

He's supposed to be a goal scorer and playmaker at this level. Plays 7-8 minutes a night (useless grinder ice time) and plays with Ritchie and Elie, our 2 worst offensive forwards. He has not been given a fair chance to succeed at all. When he gets confident and is given more time (last year) he has shown he can dominate at times. This is why I've been so high on him for a while now. His stats obviously don't show it but he seriously has potential to be good and is being held back by Jim Nill and Ken Hitchcock. I don't expect this to change sadly. They will never give him a legit chance. Never. No one can really accurately judge him as a bad player when he barely even gets to play and has shown more signs of being good than bad...he's also a lot better defensively than I thought I've noticed this year

 

[Morry83]

Dickinson is garbage. AHL scorer. 4th line NHLer. The fact that Nill considers him untouchable and the future second line center is laughable.

 

[Troy McClure]

It's true Dickinson hasn't been given any ice time on anything approaching an offensive line, but... I can't think of time where I said "wow" while watching him play. Even in his very limited minutes, we should see some flash of some offensive skill, right?

 

[BfantZ]

A team can't buy out an injured player's contract without the player's permission, so that's one potential huge problem affecting all three of your buyout options. Spezza and Hanzal have NMCs, so theoretically they could agree to the buyout since they won't have to clear waivers (unless they want to go through waivers, which is probably unlikely). Methot however would have to clear waivers, which he probably won't, which means he probably won't agree to a buyout because I strongly doubt he wants to end up at whichever teams picks him up with no say in the matter since he does have a 10 team NTC.

I would suspect spezza will be fine by the summer unless he also has back surgery . I think hanzal will take the buy out and methot should be healthy in the summer too I would think . Hard to say though .

 

[BfantZ]

It's true Dickinson hasn't been given any ice time on anything approaching an offensive line, but... I can't think of time where I said "wow" while watching him play. Even in his very limited minutes, we should see some flash of some offensive skill, right?

Have you watched him at all with Texas ? He actually does standout compared to the rest of the team skill wise. Kids got hands . He needs to be getting ice time . He is being treated like a low level prospect . No reason why he shouldn’t at least been given a look in the top 6 . If he was given the same opportunity nichushkin was given his first season and played with benn and seguin no doubt he would be a totally different player .

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

seriously guys... the adage, 'you're never as bad as your worst day and never as good as your best,' is true. you all keep clinging to those few bright sparks thinking he can make it consistent.. it's just hopes and dreams. friggin jesus lessard only worse.

Quite true, although I apply that to the team in general and our prospects as a whole, rather than any one player. I believe they will elect to supplement rather than blow up, because the youth, while not superstars, could all become 15 goal scorers, and fit fine on one of our three 4th lines.

And we can help for the lightbulb to go on for a few of them. For a guy like Roussell or Pitlick, sometimes the change of scenery or a good opportunity does accelerate progress, which is rarely as even as we think it should be.

 

[Smelling Salt]

I think with Nish there is optimism because of his rookie year. But a perceived bad attitude combined with unimpressive stats in the KHL (especially this past season) can make one a skeptic for sure. Plus who knows how that hip injury affected him. Not sure what it is with Dallas Stars players and hip injuries...

 

[Troy McClure]

Have you watched him at all with Texas ? He actually does standout compared to the rest of the team skill wise. Kids got hands . He needs to be getting ice time . He is being treated like a low level prospect . No reason why he shouldn’t at least been given a look in the top 6 . If he was given the same opportunity nichushkin was given his first season and played with benn and seguin no doubt he would be a totally different player .

No, I haven't watched the Texas Stars. I only watch the NHL, and in the NHL, I don't think I've seen him do anything with the puck that showed a high degree of skill. Maybe it is hidden. Maybe more ice time would see him try more creative stuff. Maybe he's just nervous and is rushing things because he knows any mistake will get him stapled to the bench.

I'm not declaring Dickinson to be a spare. I'm only saying I haven't seen anything to get me excited about his potential.

 

[Satan]

Have you watched him at all with Texas ? He actually does standout compared to the rest of the team skill wise. Kids got hands . He needs to be getting ice time . He is being treated like a low level prospect . No reason why he shouldn’t at least been given a look in the top 6 . If he was given the same opportunity nichushkin was given his first season and played with benn and seguin no doubt he would be a totally different player .

He's being treated like a fringe NHLer because he hasn't shown anything at this level to deserve more ice time.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

JD scored a goal in his first game, maybe even his first shot like Janmark, so there is that. If he turns out like Janmark, he will be a keeper.

 

[Morry83]

JD scored a goal in his first game, maybe even his first shot like Janmark, so there is that. If he turns out like Janmark, he will be a keeper.

And he’s scored 2 in 34 games since then. I don’t see how that matters.

 

[Kcb12345]

And he’s scored 2 in 34 games since then. I don’t see how that matters.

On 7 or 8 minutes of ice time a night playing with Elie and Ritchie. Can't judge a player poorly when he isn't given a legit chance to succeed. Never in his career has he been given a legit chance. Trust me, if he played with Benn and Seguin or even with Radulov then watch out. I focus a lot on his game and at times he is dominant out there and has a nice shot and playmaking ability that he needs to use more. He definitely has not shown his full potential though due to the fact that he is probably in fear about being benched or sent back down. The Hitchcock Effect. Ruins development and it will happen with many more to come

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

If Seguin doesn't want to re-sign with us (wouldn't blame him) we've gotta trade him away for the best return possible and start the rebuild. This team goes no where without Seguin.

If we go the rebuild route I say we trade Benn as well. We know that contract is going to bite us in the ass, so why not let it bite someone else.

That being said I hope Seguin re-signs and we try to compete with a new coach. Also revamp the roster a bit.

 

[northstars]

Stars should just fold and reenter the league as an expansion team. I suspect they would be a far better team after the dust settles. lol

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Other random thoughts on the collapse:

Winner of the off season means nothing......

The first period against BOS was great, but reminded me that they played aggressive D early in the year, hounding the puck, but that gradually fell off, and it shows.

Watching good PP teams, like BOS, PIT, TB, they all move the puck around with skilled passes. Stars started the year that way, were top 10 in PP, but now, they stand around the perimeter, sort of like they have the last ten years.

Is there such a thing as a PP coach? Oh yeah, we have one, but he must be on vacation.

Similarly, is there such a thing as a "clear the puck" coach? We need one.

Lastly, we need a "shoot the damn puck coach." They have all been prone to overpassing this year, and now more than ever.

 

[JesusNPucks]

If Seguin doesn't want to re-sign with us (wouldn't blame him) we've gotta trade him away for the best return possible and start the rebuild. This team goes no where without Seguin.

If we go the rebuild route I say we trade Benn as well. We know that contract is going to bite us in the ass, so why not let it bite someone else.

That being said I hope Seguin re-signs and we try to compete with a new coach. Also revamp the roster a bit.

I may be in the minority here, but I think we should do that anyways. I would make trading Benn my #1 priority this off-season. His value will likely only go down from here, and I'd get as much back as I can. If, after that, Seguin wants out, I'd ship him as well because, based on his contract, his value will never be higher. Those two alone would bring in a major haul for a rebuild or retool. The only one I'd be (very) hesitant to trade is Klingberg because of that steal of a contract is for several more years.

 

[eartotheground]

Lastly, we need a "shoot the damn puck coach." They have all been prone to overpassing this year, and now more than ever.

Guy Gadowsky?

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Only problem with the "trade Seguin" and "trade Benn" theories is you can't always be building for the future and ignore the now. Also, if we analyzed the "hauls" teams have gotten for one player, I bet they aren't usually much.

Start with us acquiring Seguin (or the returns to Boston for Thornton and Kessel, for that matter) The team getting the best player nearly always wins the trade. Quantity rarely makes up for quantity. And, if a large part of that haul was draft picks, well, by recent history, we would end up with a bag of nothing. And it would take five years to know we got nothing.

Not to mention, yes, every GM thinks just like you do, get the great players on cheap contracts, trade the aging players we over paid. Doubtful any real life GM falls for the trap.

The reality is if you get lucky and draft a Benn and/or Klingberg, or acquire a Seguin, the best option is nearly always keeping your best players and build around them. Yeah, part of that process is probably over paying to do so, since there will always be some GM who will pay a big salary for a long term to get his guy. But, avoiding that continually, never results in a good team, just one typically churning in the lower half of the league, like AZ, OTT, etc.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I may be in the minority here, but I think we should do that anyways. I would make trading Benn my #1 priority this off-season. His value will likely only go down from here, and I'd get as much back as I can. If, after that, Seguin wants out, I'd ship him as well because, based on his contract, his value will never be higher. Those two alone would bring in a major haul for a rebuild or retool. The only one I'd be (very) hesitant to trade is Klingberg because of that steal of a contract is for several more years.

It's really not that bad of an idea. We couldn't get it done while we had Benn and Seguin in their prime on cheap contracts. Now that they'll both be older with larger contracts I doubt we'll get close to the cup.

 

[JesusNPucks]

It's really not that bad of an idea. We couldn't get it done while we had Benn and Seguin in their prime on cheap contracts. Now that they'll both be older with larger contracts I doubt we'll get close to the cup.

And that's my thought in all this. The goal is a Cup, not having great players on your team. The past 5 years have proven that this young core can't get it done. So, naturally, it seems time to shake-up that core, at least in part. As a fan, I'd be much happier with that than with saying "We'll do better next year (with this same group)."

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

I don't think the problem is necessarily JB, TS, AR and JK. You might argue JB for leadership, but the offensive point totals would be hard to replace.

Have told the story before, but Bob Gainey told me once that in hockey, you can change out just 5 players and go from pretender to contender, and he proved it can be done, including getting a Cup. Problem is making right moves of course.

Dumping your best players is dumb. Adding around them is more practical, doable, and a better path for team improvement.

Basically, Nill needs to find a way to add depths scoring, upgrade D, and replace the backup goaltender, in that order.

-How many wingers do we need in the top 6-9 to do that? 2-3 if you count on Benn, Seguin, Rads, Janmark as top 6 forwards and Faksa and the rest to be good third and fourth liners.

-Adding Miro and maybe Heatherington in place of Hammer and Patyern fixes the D, so basically already in place, IMHO (some will vary)

-And yes, replace Kari, or keep him for another year hoping Otter and/or Point mature.

Yes, this lineup requires no to few injuries, and maybe hope that there will be no big drop offs in offensive production (our problems in 16-17 and 17-18 respectively) but in the cap world, most teams are in the same boat.

Building a super skill team that can withstand slumps and injuries, as history has shown, requires tanking to get top 3 picks, if not the top pick, several years in a row. We can lose out and help ourselves along that route.....

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

BTW, I would agree with others that to improve, we really need to upgrade our scouting dept., and our minor league player development, i.e., coaches in Austin.

And, lastly, I don't think we can continue to change directions, specifically, hiring new coaches, although with Hitch's age, we are setting ourselves up for that. I don't think Nill's drafting is really conducive to playing Hitch's system, etc.

Lastly, going back to Gainey, there are only three situations where good players are available - contract issues, attitude issues or injury issues. Otherwise, teams keep good players except for the rare hockey trade, where there is a surplus of, say D on one team, traded for FW on a team with a surplus of those.

So, in reality, if we are going to make hockey trades to improve the team, the most likely would, if we consider Honka and Miro to be the same type of player as JK, trade one of those three for a young, high production forward. And/or, if we suck next year, package up Seguin, if unlikely to resign, at the TDL, and others, and start acquiring prospects, and then wait a few more years.

 

[Kcb12345]

We aren't trading Benn. Move on people. But, if we did I'd love to try and snag a couple young studs from some team. If we trade Benn, I'd hope Nill is fired shortly after so we don't waste whatever draft picks we get as part of the return package

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

And agree:

With whoever said take a chance on a project, like a Max Domi, maybe E Kane, who seems to have flamed out elsewhere, but who does have the basic talent.

And, we aren't trading Jamie. Besides the talent level, there is always the face of the franchise issue.

 

[Duffeldof]

It's same time funny and frustrating to see how people here are ready to blow the whole ship.

Only situation where I would start total rebuild is if team has no top talent, enough of it or they are getting old and this is last chance to get something in return. Also one contributor would be salary cap situation and bad contracts.

Talent wise we have:

Seguin 71pts (24th)
Benn 69pts (27th)
Radulov 65pts (36t)
Klingberg 61pts (47th)

They all are top 50 in points while whole team has been struggling to find the back of the net this season.

And we have Heiskanen coming. Even if Benn and Radulov would start declining now we would still have (if Seguin signs) Seguin - Klingberg - Heiskanen as our top three studs.

The problem is in the second line.

4th best scorer is Janmark 34pts (196th)
5th Faksa 30pts (238th)
6th Shore 28pts (266th)

There is three first line forwards in every team. Statisticly our top three forwards should be in 1-99th spot in the stats.
Seguin, Benn and Radulov make the cut nicely. All being well above average.

Our second line forwars should be in 100-198 spots.
Janmark in the middle of the pack. Faksa in the end.

Third line should be 199-297.
Shore is right on the top. Jason Spezza is semi high with Tyler Pitlick.

There is huge second line forward hole in the team.

As GM I would ink my forward roster to next year like this.

Benn - Seguin - Radulov
Janmark - XXX - XXX
Roussel - Faksa - Pitlick
McKenzie - Dickinson - Elie
Shore

I won't count anything on Hanzal because obvious reasons. Will he be ready to play next season? Will he reach his level? Will he stay healthy?

If we cannot get rid of Spezzas lat contract year I don't mind playing him in bottom 6 but he has to play wing atleast when everyone is healthy.

We need top 6 C and Spezza doesn't seem to make the cut anymore. Faksa is stapled to 3C. If Hanzal comes back we have more C problems.

With Roussel I think we have no need to sign him to extension if his not willing to give discount. If the deal is right, why not. If his asking too much I won't cry after him.

Ritchie I think he can have better career somewhere else. And if his not contributing to top 6 we are stacked anyway.

Outside of Benn, Seguin, Radulov, Janmark, Faksa every forward is negotiable in my eyes.

Talking about defence I think we are doing fine. Heiskanen, Honka, Heatherington will replace what we lose in Hamhuis, Pateryn.

Goalie wise. Bishop is starter and we will sign some cheap backup if its Kari or someone else.

I think we need to trade for two atleast one top 6 players. I would't count on Nichushkin I see him as potential bonus player at this point.