Nylander vs Pettersson

[flamesforcup]

While I’m honoured you hold me in such high regard, you aren’t the authority on the matter. Nylander has been a centre his entire career and that was always the plan until they won the lottery with Matthews. They’ve shown great chemistry and have been kept together, but this doesn’t change the fact that almost any reliable hockey person you ask will tell you Nylander’s game is more ideally suited for centre ice. That’s always been the case...

And you’re obviously an expert on looking bad but nobody is triggered. You only make yourself look childish with that sort of response. If you don’t think he can play centre then can you provide valid reasons as to why?

Talent analysis always works best when you try to be objective and evaluate based on the individual skills and abilities of a player... consistently allowing your disdain for a particular team enter into the equation only makes it easier for users to ignore you if they haven’t already.

lol dude Nylander isnt a centre end of story. If he was he wouldve played at centre this year and in the playoffs. He was invisble on the wing when the game got rough I can only imagine how bad it wouldve been if he was at centre

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I don't know if I can see Nylander as alot more than he already is. Pettersson I think has very high potential.

At the time of the draft I liked Pettersson more last year than I did Nylander in 2014 and my team was in prime position to take both. I also think Pettersson is more likely a center than Nylander. Not that I'm sure how likely it is however, he will need to add more weight.

I would take Pettersson, although it is more risky than taking the proven 60 point guy.

 

[sparxx87]

I'm sorry but there's a difference between objective analysis and being delusional.
Please explain how nylanders game is more suitable for center ice? Because the last time I checked there's a big defensive responsibility on a center. Hovering doesn't cut it at center ice and they would be wise to keep him away from there like they have ever since he entered the league. You being delusional doesn't change any facts unfortunately

This literally holds no significance when determining the position nylander plays,

Every manager would want it's C/W to be a center rather than a winger this doesn't make him a center. There's nowhere we can go with this discussion if you're not willing to swallow your pride and accept the reality

It doesn’t, but why would they develop him at centre if that’s not his long term fit? That makes sense to you? Players that won’t play centre are moved immediately upon hitting pro. Nylander wasn’t. He only moved to the wing when Matthews came.

When Tyler Seguin and Claude Giroux began their NHL careers on the wing, did this suddenly make them wingers?

 

[Holymakinaw]

If you would have just typed that at the beginning, you would have saved yourself looking like an idiot.

Well that's just like, your opinion, man.

And not a very nice one, either.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Pettersson crushing this vote

I wonder if he'll ever make it to the NHL?

 

[DDRhockey]

I wonder if he'll ever make it to the NHL?

Pettersson is still 19 until end of november. You act like he has been a prospect forever.

Funfact, backstrom also stayed an extra year in shl

 

[M2Beezy]

I wonder if he'll ever make it to the NHL?

O yeah i wouldnt worry about it, hes a beauty

 

[Hugh Mungus]

It doesn’t, but why would they develop him at centre if that’s not his long term fit? That makes sense to you? Players that won’t play centre are moved immediately upon hitting pro. Nylander wasn’t. He only moved to the wing when Matthews came.

When Tyler Seguin and Claude Giroux began their NHL careers on the wing, did this suddenly make them wingers?

I'm sure if you did some unbias research you would find a number of players that were projected to be centers that ended up as career wingers, so this is anything but a reliable argument.

That also is not my point, my point is that nylander is currently a winger and there's nothing you can say that will change that.

Him being projected as a center in the future is irrelevant to the discussion and does not make him a center currently. This is common logic, and I'm not going to comment on it anymore since you're showing no signs of being realistic on the matter.

 

[David Suzuki]

Nylander until Pettersson has played in the NHL

 

[4thline]

Him being projected as a center in the future is irrelevant to the discussion and does not make him a center currently.

You heard it here 1st: how one player projects in the future is irrelevant to a discussion about the future performance of that player vs. another. Common logic.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

You heard it here 1st: how one player projects in the future is irrelevant to a discussion about the future performance of that player vs. another. Common logic.

I think you might have reading comprehension issues, the discussion was about him being a center RIGHT NOW which makes projection irrelevant

Common logic

 

[4thline]

I think you might have reading comprehension issues, the discussion was about him being a center RIGHT NOW which makes projection irrelevant

Common logic

No, you were discussing that, no one else was.

Proclamations that Petterson's half SHL season at centre is a justification to pick him

Gotta go with the schmucks kid. Center edge plus his numbers in Sweden are unreal.

Pettersson, better numbers in the SHL, center, I'll take the high risk higher reward

I then called those out based on Nylander being a natural C , having a non-trivial amount of NHL C time, and the team publicly stating they see him as a C long term, and the gap for a C that has made the NHL transition as a wing converting back to the middle being smaller than the one from the SHL to NHL

Factually incorrect statement

Nylander hasnt played C in 4 years. He is a winger.

Factually correct rebuttals + statements about Nylander being a natural C but it being uncertain whether he would become one full time.

He played center as recently as this season.

U19- Half season at C in SHL/ adjusted to AHL at wing
U20- 2/3's season C in AHL, 1/4 season @ C in NHL, played at top 6 level
U21- 5-10 games at C in NHL, played at top 6 level
U22- 5-10 games at C in NHL , played at top 6 level

It's not a given that he will meet the Bab's standards and make the transition, but writing it off as more unlikely than a prospect that has yet to make the NHL (even at wing) is pretty silly.

Nylander is quite obviously a natural centreman. Whether he ends up there or not still remains to be seen.

Nobody knows what the future holds, I’m just not sure how anyone can look at William Nylander and not see that he has all the necessary tools to be an effective NHL centre. Time will tell where he ends up, but your suggestion that he’s been disqualified for a bad 7 games is beyond ridiculous.

The reading comprehension issues you mentioned:

Playing C for 10% of the time doesn't make anyone a center, it really looks like you have no idea what you're talking about tbh.

Must be hard going through life experiencing a different world than every one else with discussions flying over your head, so I'll simplify things.

Natural C =/= Proven Full-time NHL C
Has Played C at NHL level with success =/= Proven Full-time NHL C

William Nylander = Natural C who has played C at the NHL level with success
William Nylander =/= Proven Full-time NHL C
William Nylander's track record at C at the SHL, AHL, and NHL levels suggests that there is yet a good chance that he becomes a Proven Full-time NHL C

 

[sparxx87]

I'm sure if you did some unbias research you would find a number of players that were projected to be centers that ended up as career wingers, so this is anything but a reliable argument.

That also is not my point, my point is that nylander is currently a winger and there's nothing you can say that will change that.

Him being projected as a center in the future is irrelevant to the discussion and does not make him a center currently. This is common logic, and I'm not going to comment on it anymore since you're showing no signs of being realistic on the matter.

Excellent, but the same unbiased research will hilight players such as Seguin and Giroux who were always centreman but began in the NHL as a winger.... so it goes both ways. (And I’m of the opinion that both were always centres, playing out of position)

It’s not a matter of what you or I say. Fact of the matter is that Nylander has played his entire career as a centre and Auston Matthews arrival was the only reason he shifted. If the Leafs saw him as a winger initially, he would have been moved there when he joined the Maries... but he wasn’t, because that wasn’t the plan. Babcock likes two centres on a line, especially a RH/LH duo for face offs. Him and Matthews have excellent chemistry, and with Bozak and Kadri, they needed elite skill with Matthews far more than another centre. This makes sense to most people, I’m not sure why you’re struggling?


....and if we’re not talking future projection, only actual results matter? ... so why is a guy whose never played a game in the league beating an established 60 point NHL’er? If I can’t project a player based on skill set and how he’s been brought up by the organization with actual results, how do you keep a straight face and project some kid whose never played to jump in and surpass all this elite talent?

I hope you can at least laugh at your own foolishness?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Ok...

Nylander has been a winger ever since he entered the league.

This is an opinion?

It has been established that nylander is a perimeter winger that likes to hover and isn't great defensively.

Again delusions don't change facts in the real world.

Actually, he came into the league as a center and played there to finish the season before AM34 was drafted.

The organization says they feel he will be a centre, he played center this season when one was needed and has played center at all levels including the N.

He could very well still be a center as soon as next season.

 

[DDRhockey]

Actually, he came into the league as a center and played there to finish the season before AM34 was drafted.

The organization says they feel he will be a centre, he played center this season when one was needed and has played center at all levels including the N.

He could very well still be a center as soon as next season.

Except mike babcock denied that he will be a center next season.

 

[kindalaidback]

what are some of you talking about?

william played on the wing when he joined the leafs in training camp back in 2014. he went back to the shl, was called up after the wjc (was a winger) and played on the lw. then he made the "transition" to center (well, he was moved back to wing in the playoffs because of his bad defensive game).

he only played center when the leafs called him up because we had no centers.

William Nylander wouldn't be playing centre in the NHL right now if the Toronto Maple Leafs head coach had his way. [...] But because of injuries at the position, Mike Babcock doesn't really have much of a choice currently with one of the team's top prospects.

Injuries forcing Maple Leafs to use William Nylander up the middle

Lining up at centre out of necessity to start his NHL career, Nylander will be back on the wing to start this season. Babcock would have preferred that in the first place, noting Nylander now won’t have to meet daily with coaches to run through video of defensive mistakes.

William Nylander aiming for top rookie status on Maple Leafs | The Star

william has never been a full-time center. last year (the media asked him about playing center) and willie said that he's been switching position since he started to play hockey.

and currently, he is a winger.

edit: and because i just read this post: willie did not play 5-10 games at center at top 6 level as a u-21 player. he played a few games on the fourth line and one game centering jvr and marner-- it was not good.

 

[4thline]

Except mike babcock denied that he will be a center next season.

About 4:25- "I'm not certain, that will depend on our lineup"

Denied indeed.

 

[DDRhockey]

About 4:25- "I'm not certain, that will depend on our lineup"

Denied indeed.

He is not convinced. Almost 3 seasons in nhl now. When will he be a center then? When he retires?

 

[rent free]

He is not convinced. Almost 3 seasons in nhl now. When will he be a center then? When he retires?

2.25 seasons in the nhl and he has been a center for .5 seasons (22 games in 2016 and 20 games this season). we also had bozak there and no one in the system ready to play 3C.

 

[4thline]

He is not convinced. Almost 3 seasons in nhl now. When will he be a center then? When he retires?

He's 22, would he be more of a centre if he stayed in the AHL for that time like a Kadri?
Or being largely inneffective like Johansen?
Or how about Seguin? Only 27 less faceoffs taken in their U22 years
Bryan Little, didn't establish himself as a full time C until 23,
Ditto Giroux
Ditto Brassard.


Sure would have been smart to write them all off at 22

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Except mike babcock denied that he will be a center next season.

that has never happened. Its sad that you have to play make belief just because your narrative isn't real.

Is he a center right now? No. Can he be a center? Yes. Can he be a center next season? Depends on the team and his play.

Will he never be a center? Maybe, but that would not be expected to anyone but weird, anti leafs, "I hope everything goes wrong for Toronto" type of people.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Excellent, but the same unbiased research will hilight players such as Seguin and Giroux who were always centreman but began in the NHL as a winger.... so it goes both ways. (And I’m of the opinion that both were always centres, playing out of position)

It’s not a matter of what you or I say. Fact of the matter is that Nylander has played his entire career as a centre and Auston Matthews arrival was the only reason he shifted. If the Leafs saw him as a winger initially, he would have been moved there when he joined the Maries... but he wasn’t, because that wasn’t the plan. Babcock likes two centres on a line, especially a RH/LH duo for face offs. Him and Matthews have excellent chemistry, and with Bozak and Kadri, they needed elite skill with Matthews far more than another centre. This makes sense to most people, I’m not sure why you’re struggling?


....and if we’re not talking future projection, only actual results matter? ... so why is a guy whose never played a game in the league beating an established 60 point NHL’er? If I can’t project a player based on skill set and how he’s been brought up by the organization with actual results, how do you keep a straight face and project some kid whose never played to jump in and surpass all this elite talent?

I hope you can at least laugh at your own foolishness?

Quit dancing around the point and just accept the fact that nylander is not a Center

And as far as laughing goes, I'm laughing my *** off reading your post on why nylander is a center when he clearly isn't. Idk why you can't just accept this. Nylander has no qualities of a center. Move on.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

Actually, he came into the league as a center and played there to finish the season before AM34 was drafted.

The organization says they feel he will be a centre, he played center this season when one was needed and has played center at all levels including the N.

He could very well still be a center as soon as next season.

There's 4 center spots on an NHL team and nylander couldnt make a single one.

I'm starting to see a trend here that leafs fans don't give a single s*** about looking foolish

 

[Hugh Mungus]

No, you were discussing that, no one else was.

Proclamations that Petterson's half SHL season at centre is a justification to pick him

Where exactly did I try to justify one player over the other? That's just an opinion I have which you are allowed to disagree with.

Facts on the other hand, are not refutable for a sane person.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

There's 4 center spots on an NHL team and nylander couldnt make a single one.

I'm starting to see a trend here that leafs fans don't give a single s*** about looking foolish

the same could be said about you and your useless commentary. Why are you so standoffish? Did a leafs fan hurt your feelings as a child?

I merely corrected him in that he did, in fact, join the league as a center, no need to be a hugh mungus baby about it.