Proposal: Nylander and Andersen for Garland and Kuemper

[Leafs1991]

Last year Nylander had more than 50% more points than Garland. No, it isn't close.

Garland is just starting his NHL career. I've seen Garland play, he at least likes to go to the corners more than Nylander. I would personally give the edge to Garland.

 

[Leafs1991]

I find it interesting how differently the leafs board saw this when Dubas was handing out those contracts.

I made the argument that Nylander should make far less than Pastrnak (Nylanders final elc year: 20 goals/60 points Pastrnak final elc paced for 38 goals/77 points). What was I told on the leaf board? "Pastrnak has way more PP time. Pastrnak's linemates are better. Pastrnak plays more minutes per game. etc." The precise same thing was done when comparing Marner to Rantanen.

Funny how just raw point production is all that matters when it's the LEAF player with more points...

Agreed. Nylander is very predictable as a player and doesn't go into the corners or like to forehead consistently. Pastrnak is loads better and the fact that there are Leaf fans who disagree with that is crazy.

Leafs fans should also go watch Garland play cause he is just as good as Nylander in the IQ department, if not better, and actually plays defense and forechecks. I'd give Nylander the edge in skating.

I'd 100% do this deal.

 

[Mosby]

Not when you can't rely on him to be your #1 goalie.

Don't get me wrong -- when healthy, Kuemper is a Veznia-calibre goalie - although I do believe his numbers are perhaps a little inflated by playing behind a very stingy defensive team in the Coyotes for the past few years. The problem is -- a team cannot go into a season relying on him to play 55-60 games... which means you generally need a guy who's at least a "1B" goalie to pair with him, and those guys usually cost around $3m.

The Coyotes haven't been a stingy defensive team since the early years of Dave Tippett though. Different story under Rick Tocchet. Just because the offense sucks doesn't mean they are defensive. Look at the playoff series versus Colorado where the Coyotes were giving up a 2:1 shot ratio, or more, every game and the scores were only relatively close because of Darcy Kuemper.

Kuemper has had two longer term injuries in Arizona and both are because Rick Tocchet plays him every single game. He gets no rest. Every goalie would get injured in that situation. And Rick Tocchet is out of his depth as a head coach.

 

[Leaftors]

Last year, over an additional 68 games, Garland scored at 2.09 ES P/60 compared to Nylander at 2.29 ES P/60. And that's with Toronto scoring 47 more goals than Arizona.

What are these stats this year?

 

[rt]

Not when you can't rely on him to be your #1 goalie.

Don't get me wrong -- when healthy, Kuemper is a Veznia-calibre goalie - although I do believe his numbers are perhaps a little inflated by playing behind a very stingy defensive team in the Coyotes for the past few years. The problem is -- a team cannot go into a season relying on him to play 55-60 games... which means you generally need a guy who's at least a "1B" goalie to pair with him, and those guys usually cost around $3m.

Stingy D? Only 9 teams have given up more shots the last three years.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Start with Matthews. Haha

Ok we can throw in a Matthews jersey to help sweeten the deal. l

 

[seanlinden]

Stingy D? Only 9 teams have given up more shots the last three years.

Not necessarily the quantity of shots that determines whether a team is solid defensively.

Look at the differentials between Kuemper and the guys who've replaced him when hurt in 2019-20
Kuemper 29gp, 2.22, .928
Raanta 33gp, 2.63gaa, .921
Hill 13gp, 2.62gaa, .918

Don't get me wrong, Kuemper is the best of the bunch, but those are still pretty solid numbers for Raanta & Hill. Arizona gives up a ton of shots, but their goalies don't tend to fair too poorly.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Garland is just starting his NHL career. I've seen Garland play, he at least likes to go to the corners more than Nylander. I would personally give the edge to Garland.

Nylander is in the corners on every shift.

 

[34]

Nylander is worth more than both of them.

 

[Petrus]

I find it interesting how differently the leafs board saw this when Dubas was handing out those contracts.

I made the argument that Nylander should make far less than Pastrnak (Nylanders final elc year: 20 goals/60 points Pastrnak final elc paced for 38 goals/77 points). What was I told on the leaf board? "Pastrnak has way more PP time. Pastrnak's linemates are better. Pastrnak plays more minutes per game. etc." The precise same thing was done when comparing Marner to Rantanen.

Funny how just raw point production is all that matters when it's the LEAF player with more points...

You make it sound like the Leaf board is one giant hive mind.

Pasta is the better player and was signed with a higher cap %. At the time, Nylander was coming off 2 back to back seasons of 60 points whereas 1 for Pasta.

I will say there are a lot Leaf fans at that time that thought Nylander is better. You’d be hard pressed to see a Leaf thinking this so now.

 

[rt]

Not necessarily the quantity of shots that determines whether a team is solid defensively.

Look at the differentials between Kuemper and the guys who've replaced him when hurt in 2019-20
Kuemper 29gp, 2.22, .928
Raanta 33gp, 2.63gaa, .921
Hill 13gp, 2.62gaa, .918

Don't get me wrong, Kuemper is the best of the bunch, but those are still pretty solid numbers for Raanta & Hill. Arizona gives up a ton of shots, but their goalies don't tend to fair too poorly.

Raanta has fantastic career numbers prior to coming to Arizona. The Coyotes acquired him to be a starter because he’s got elite talent. He’s just too injury prone to be relied on. Which is why the brought in Kuemper and gave him and extension prior to starting his first game. They also drafted Hill because he was a great goalie prospect and proved that since he was drafted. He didn’t come out of nowhere. The Coyotes are good at identifying and developing goalies. It’s no mirage. It’s just success in that one area.

 

[elitepete]

Garland isn't closer to Nylander

Yeah, he’s way ahead.

 

[Leafs1991]

Nylander is in the corners on every shift.

Really? Cause there are clear examples I can pull that would show you he is definitely not in the corners every shift.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Really? Cause there are clear examples I can pull that would show you he is definitely not in the corners every shift.

Are they the parts of his shift were he is in the front of the net, making defensive play or covering at the point?

 

[Leafs1991]

Are they the parts of his shift were he is in the front of the net, making defensive play or covering at the point?

Nope. I'm just willing to admit Nylander does not do that stuff every shift and can look pretty lazy. For example, in the most recent game during the 1st period, a pass was made to his side of the ice in the offensive zone while he was standing in the right faceoff dot. He didn't move until the puck was in the player's possession. And what did he do? He just skated by and waved his stick around.

I don't watch these games with rose-colored glasses on.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

What are these stats this year?

This season, Garland is at 2.48 ES P/60, compared to 1.70 ES P/60 for Nylander.

Over the last 2 seasons (~100 games each), the totals are 2.23 for Garland, compared to 2.09 for Nylander.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Nope. I'm just willing to admit Nylander does not do that stuff every shift and can look pretty lazy. For example, in the most recent game during the 1st period, a pass was made to his side of the ice in the offensive zone while he was standing in the right faceoff dot. He didn't move until the puck was in the player's possession. And what did he do? He just skated by and waved his stick around.

I don't watch these games with rose-colored glasses on.

I don't wear glasses of any kind. I admit that Nylander is not a perfect player.

 

[socko]

I think Campbell is going to be the Leafs starter going forward, so they shouldn't be bring in any goaltender that isn't content with a backup type of role. Perhaps that backup role will see more action than typical backups, but I don't see the Leafs looking for a starter when Campbell looks to fit the bill.

 

[Miri]

Garland isn't closer to Nylander

Yup, Garland is better :-P

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Yup, Garland is better :-P

Not until he proves it

 

[Bobby Terrance]

He also played 4+ more minutes per game, on the 2nd highest scoring team in the NHL, and had 17 PP points compared to only 5 for Garland. An extra 20 points isn't all that impressive, in that context.

They were the 4th highest scoring team because of him, not in spite of.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

They were the 4th highest scoring team because of him, not in spite of.

He was the 4th highest scorer on their roster, so he definitely contributed to the overall team success. But, on the other hand, Garland was the 3rd highest scorer on the Coyotes roster. If the Coyotes scored 47 more team goals last season, and Garland played 4 more minutes per game, do you think there would still be a 20 point difference in their raw point totals?