Proposal: Nylander and Andersen for Garland and Kuemper

[htpwn]

Yes, let's all focus exclusively on the past 35 games of their careers.

It's "hyperbolic" to pretend it's close because of a 35 game sample size while ignoring the rest of their careers, a far larger sample size, which says that it isn't close.

Nonsense.

Carter Verhaeghe: 30P in 36GP
Mathew Barzal: 28P in 36GP.

Isles should definitely make this trade.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He plays a bigger role because he's a better player. Hence his value is considerably higher.

Edit: age mixup

Last year was also Garland's first full NHL season, having only played 38 games the year before. The fact that Nylander got more usage, as a guy with 200+ NHL games on his resume, isn't exactly telling when it comes to ability levels. I'd expect a guy in his 4th full season to play more than a guy in his 1st full season.

And, this season, Garland is getting more ice time than Nylander, and is on the Coyote's top PP. Does him playing a bigger role this year now make him the better player?

With more development and everything, Nylander is probably the better player. But, if Garland can be signed for $3.5m, the return on that cap hit could be significantly better than what you'd get for ~$7m from Nylander.

 

[ShortSideFlick]

He also played 4+ more minutes per game, on the 2nd highest scoring team in the NHL, and had 17 PP points compared to only 5 for Garland. An extra 20 points isn't all that impressive, in that context.

So what you are saying is Nylander's value should be decreased because he's good enough to be a regular fixture on one of the top scoring teams' powerplay? A team with plenty of high end offensive talent for him to beat out for that spot.

In the year that's being talked about Carl Soderberg had more powerplay production that Garland, on the same "his value should be higher than his production indicates because he plays for" Arizona Coyotes. Is Soderberg also equal value to Nylander then?

There's lots to like about Garland. He's improved every year, and his significantly less NHL experience vs Nylander can be viewed as both an asset and a detriment. An asset because his lower production years relative to Nylander are potentially just him adapting to the league. A detriment because the greatest determinant of value to NHL GMs is what you've ACTUALLY done. Garland might legitimately turn out to be as good as Nylander, maybe better, but the discussion for him having similar value is for ~2 years from now, when/if he's done it consistently for an extended period of time as Nylander has. Since his contract is expiring, that also happens to be a time when he has a new contract and isn't making "9 times" less than Nylander.

No one thinks Liljegren is worth much. Leafs fans can go on about how he's been the marlies #1 D, has become a really well rounded D, etc. That doesn't mean any NHL GM is gonna pay a top 4 dman price for him, because he hasn't done that yet. They still won't even if he gets called up and at some point has a steak of 35 games where he plays like a top 4 guy. The leafs best bet is to give him a chance to play and hope he can prove he can be that. Arizona's best bet is to re-sign Garland and hope he continues to play the way he has the last 35 games.

35 games producing like another player has for half a decade isn't enough to make them the same value, even if they are on a cheap deal... that also happens to be expiring.

 

[Jormungandr]

That’s a no for me.

 

[Dominicr]

Ah yes, the 'ol "my guy is cheaper even though he needs a new deal in 20 games" argument.

even after his new deal he won’t be overpaid like nylander. There is no reason for Arizona to bail Toronto out of their cap troubles. This trade would be awful for Arizona.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Last year was also Garland's first full NHL season, having only played 38 games the year before. The fact that Nylander got more usage, as a guy with 200+ NHL games on his resume, isn't exactly telling when it comes to ability levels. I'd expect a guy in his 4th full season to play more than a guy in his 1st full season.

And, this season, Garland is getting more ice time than Nylander, and is on the Coyote's top PP. Does him playing a bigger role this year now make him the better player?

With more development and everything, Nylander is probably the better player. But, if Garland can be signed for $3.5m, the return on that cap hit could be significantly better than what you'd get for ~$7m from Nylander.

Geez, Garland should fire his agent if he's equal to Nylander but getting paid half as much.

 

[Team Cozens]

Garland has 27 points in 35 games.
Nylander as 26 points in 36 games.
Nylander is six weeks younger than Garland.
Nylander plays for the league's 4th best offense.
Garland plays for the league's 5th worst offense.
Nylander's cap-hit is NINE TIMES Garland's.

It's okay to think Nylander is the better player. It's okay to think Nylander has better trade-value. But I think it's probably somewhat close, and to say it's not even close is hyperbolic.

Plus Garland plays like he cares. More PIMs, hits, blocks and shots on goal. I'd take Garland not even taking the massive contract discrepancy into consideration. Most educated hockey fans would.

 

[Pi]

Lol no. Go find Edmonton and try to rip them off. We're good.

 

[koyvoo]

I doubt Arizona is even considering moving Garland. He’s taken the extra responsibility given to him this year and proven himself special/unique talent. More people should treat themselves to watching him play. He has a very, very high skill level.

 

[OB34KNH]

Absolutely horrendous. They are the exact same age.

Nylander has produced as a #1 Winger over 4+ years.

Just because Garland is putting up numbers in a 35 game sample ----- doesn't mean jack feces.

Nylander >> Garland, until proven otherwise (over a large sample of games)

That's literally like Toronto offering Zack Hyman for Matt Barzal

Hyman: 12 goals 24 points
Barzal: 10 Goals 28 points

Also, Hyman is Toronto's #1 Defensive forward, Elite PKer, blocks shots, etc.

Please refrain yourselves from posting if you can not conceive logical proposals.

 

[LeafGrief]

even after his new deal he won’t be overpaid like nylander. There is no reason for Arizona to bail Toronto out of their cap troubles. This trade would be awful for Arizona.

Nylander isn't overpaid lmao. Please try to keep up with appropriate trash talk narratives, focus on Andersen if you want to talk about cap space this year.

 

[Cotton]

Plus Garland plays like he cares. More PIMs, hits, blocks and shots on goal. I'd take Garland not even taking the massive contract discrepancy into consideration. Most educated hockey fans would.

Did you just imply you’re an “educated hockey fan” then pump up Garland for taking more penalties? Lmao.

Btw genius, 96 shots 15 block and 16 hits compared to 87 shots 12 blocks and 11 hits isn’t the impactful argument you think it is.

 

[Team Cozens]

Did you just imply you’re an “educated hockey fan” then pump up Garland for taking more penalties? Lmao.

Btw genius, 96 shots 15 block and 16 hits compared to 87 shots 12 blocks and 11 hits isn’t the impactful argument you think it is.

I've watched enough of Leafs games to know Nylander is Casper the ghost 90% of the time.

 

[Cotton]

I've watched enough of Leafs games to know Nylander is Casper the ghost 90% of the time.

Yet you apparently haven’t watched enough hockey to know taking penalties isn’t good thing, lol. And you actually tried pumping one player over the other for single digit differences in things like hits and blocks which is neither strong suit. And shots, even though the guy with less has more goals. Please, tell me more about your hockey knowledge.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Leafs need to add a retained Marner to the deal. Phoenix adds a 5th.

 

[rt]

This thread is a magnet for big dumb .

EDIT: language filter...uhhh...stinky Pejorative Slurs?

EDIT x2: many of the replies in this thread are substandard.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Garland has 27 points in 35 games.
Nylander as 26 points in 36 games.
Nylander is six weeks younger than Garland.
Nylander plays for the league's 4th best offense.
Garland plays for the league's 5th worst offense.
Nylander's cap-hit is NINE TIMES Garland's.

It's okay to think Nylander is the better player. It's okay to think Nylander has better trade-value. But I think it's probably somewhat close, and to say it's not even close is hyperbolic.

Nylander is also MUCH MUCH more proven

 

[RemoAZ]

Yotes need to add more talent around Garland, not trade him for another big cap hit. He's our ONLY goal scorer. Plus, Nylander wouldn't be playing with anyone near to the talent the Leafs have so we should expect his production to go way down. No thanks.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Garland is a good player, but this is an extremely small sample size to be saying that he’s close to the player that Nylander is. Say whatever you want about Nylander postseason time, but Garland has a total of 2 points in 8 postseason games and Nylander has been a consistent producer for a long period of time, even before Tavares got to Toronto and Marner had his 90 point year.

Also, I’m not making any comparisons, but I’ve seen players score at or close to point per game paces in a shortened season. Derek Stepan was close in 2013 and Nazem Kadri was a point per game player in that same season. Hell, Pavel Buchnevich has 32 points in 35 games this season. I’m not putting too much stock into this year’s numbers.

 

[howkie]

I rather have Garland in the playoffs than Nylander. Garland is like mix of Hyman and Nylander. IF Garland played in Toronto omg the hype this Guy would get.
Replace Statsny with Garland, yummi

 

[XX]

Garland is a good player, but this is an extremely small sample size to be saying that he’s close to the player that Nylander is. Say whatever you want about Nylander postseason time, but Garland has a total of 2 points in 8 postseason games and Nylander has been a consistent producer for a long period of time, even before Tavares got to Toronto and Marner had his 90 point year.

Also, I’m not making any comparisons, but I’ve seen players score at or close to point per game paces in a shortened season. Derek Stepan was close in 2013 and Nazem Kadri was a point per game player in that same season. Hell, Pavel Buchnevich has 32 points in 35 games this season. I’m not putting too much stock into this year’s numbers.

If you run the TOI numbers for last year, you'll see Garland was one of the most time efficient forwards in the league while playing with complete trash on one of the worst offenses. The Coyotes are hot garbage 5v5. Tocchet frequently moves him up and down and around the lineup but Garland still produces. He has a competitive fire that is hard to miss and that's going to make him attractive to GMs.

This deadline is interesting because he's producing at a great pace but he is owed essentially ELC money, so he can fit on basically any team with no major roster alterations. A new contract is a summertime issue.

The Coyotes are looking for high picks or bluechips. Maybe a useful young roster D.

This trade accomplishes nothing for AZ but I would not be surprised if Toronto goes after Garland.

 

[Didalee Hed]

Coyotes laugh and terminate their mobile service so dubas can’t insult them ever again

 

[flying v 604]

Garland has 27 points in 35 games.
Nylander as 26 points in 36 games.
Nylander is six weeks younger than Garland.
Nylander plays for the league's 4th best offense.
Garland plays for the league's 5th worst offense.
Nylander's cap-hit is NINE TIMES Garland's.

It's okay to think Nylander is the better player. It's okay to think Nylander has better trade-value. But I think it's probably somewhat close, and to say it's not even close is hyperbolic.

It's amazing how many really good players get very little attention in the Pacific, especially the Yotes and Cali teams.
Leafs come out like bandits in this deal.
I think Nylander is a good player but but even putting aside the fact the leafs would be a better team with this trade, it has to be taken in to consideration how much different each players numbers would differ if they played for the opposite team, plus cap space.
It's not a stretch to think Nylander would have worse numbers playing for the Coyotes and Garland would get a bump in his. Anderson has no value to the Yotes since he's a UFA and an obvious downgrade on Darcy.
Leafs solve their biggest question mark without adding more cap and instantly have one of the better tandems in the league. They gain much-needed cap space going into the offseason which should help in re-signing Hyman with cap to spare.
Not sure why leaf fans think this is a bad deal.

 

[One Winged Angel]

If you run the TOI numbers for last year, you'll see Garland was one of the most time efficient forwards in the league while playing with complete trash on one of the worst offenses. The Coyotes are hot garbage 5v5. Tocchet frequently moves him up and down and around the lineup but Garland still produces. He has a competitive fire that is hard to miss and that's going to make him attractive to GMs.

This deadline is interesting because he's producing at a great pace but he is owed essentially ELC money, so he can fit on basically any team with no major roster alterations. A new contract is a summertime issue.

The Coyotes are looking for high picks or bluechips. Maybe a useful young roster D.

This trade accomplishes nothing for AZ but I would not be surprised if Toronto goes after Garland.

I’ll start out by saying that I absolutely do not see the Coyotes dealing Garland unless they’re blown away with an offer. There’s no reason to. He’s not even making 1m against the cap and he’s still under team control after this deal ends. They absolutely should hold onto him.

With that said, he had a good year last year as well, but he’s played 150 career regular season games. That’s not even 2 full 80 game seasons and yes, I know the season was shortened last year. You can’t say he’s on Nylander’s level, even if you believe that Nylander is just the beneficiary of playing with better talent, which I don’t completely agree with, as I think he helps the talents around him as much as they help him.

I’m sorry, but he’s just not experienced enough and hasn’t produced at this clip for long enough for me to put him there.

He’s absolutely a player that every team would love to have though.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Garland has 27 points in 35 games.
Nylander as 26 points in 36 games.
Nylander is six weeks younger than Garland.
Nylander plays for the league's 4th best offense.
Garland plays for the league's 5th worst offense.
Nylander's cap-hit is NINE TIMES Garland's.

It's okay to think Nylander is the better player. It's okay to think Nylander has better trade-value. But I think it's probably somewhat close, and to say it's not even close is hyperbolic.

Not to mention the leafs get way grittier with that swap.