Confirmed Signing with Link: [NYI] F Bo Horvat signs extension with the Islanders (8 years, $8.5M AAV)

[Face Of Bear]

One of the worst contracts in the league

 

[Ignite111]

11 mil for 2 points in 7 vs 19 mil for 4 points in 6 games for the dynamic duo, it’s a tough call. The thing is even with Panarin struggling the Rangers can still afford a real 1C, 1W, etc instead of having to play the corpse of Parise or Palmieri at 1W. The islanders are capped out with nothing even resembling a 1W or legit 1C in the system.

Horvat can win faceoffs, don’t lump in two way play with that by default. If his defensive game got twice as good overnight it would finally start approaching average.

Where’s the other half of your dynamic duo? You mean 20 mil for 6 points in 7 games vrs 17.5 mil for 4 points.

Also, it’s pretty funny that that 39 year old Parise out scores Laff and Kakko from the 3rd line.

 

[tyhee]

We’re comparing Horvat to Mark Stone now?

Stone was given as an example of a contract that, according to the poster, looked excessive initially but worked out ok.

Having a contract that initially looks excessive is the only comparison that was made between Horvat and Stone and that in no way requires that they be similar players or players of similar quality.

So, no, logically we aren't comparing Horvat to Stone as players in any way.

 

[doublechili]

We’re comparing Horvat to Mark Stone now?

No, Go back to 2019. I'm comparing the 8x $9.5M contract Stone signed 4+ years ago when he was 27 with the 8x $8.5M contract Horvat signed this year at 27. Stone has hovered around being a point per game winger with size and intangibles. Horvat has hovered around .75 points per game as a C (more valuable position) with size and intangibles. But yeah, totally irrelevant.

 

[platotld]

the Horvat in Vancouver can drive a line, esp when motivated. you just have to play a system that allows him to. He runs very hot and cold, you just have to live with that.

First Bo is a good, very good 2nd line center. This year over all. Career wise he's been very good.. again last year for sure. Below stats not updated to EOY with isles but show enough.

Stats​

See all

	GP	G	A	P	+/-	PIM	PPG	PPA	SHG	SHA	GWG	OTG	S	S%	TOI/GP
2022-23 Regular Season	49	31	23	54	+3	12	11	7	3	1	4	1	143	21.7	20:49
Career Regular Season	621	201	219	420	-66	200	67	50	11	2	25	5	1,437	14.0	18:32
Career Playoffs	23	11	5	16	+1	6	3	0	1	0	2	1	58	19.0	18:33

All of this said.. Bo is not a line driver. He's good at faceoffs, can attack the net with speed but he is not a player to player speicalist. Good at PP for sure. People argue Bo's never had good enough linemates to really thrive. Well since 2015 that has been true? Or is it hockey people know he has an individual talent he get can get the job done but does not consitiantly make his linemates better. I've always thought this could be one of the main reasons each year regardless of coach, GM, assitant coach Bo would get whoever as line mates. I'm trying to think who Bo has ever elevated to the next level just because he was playing with Bo.

“I'm a two-way centreman that you can put out there in any key situation, a big draw at the end of the game or be on the penalty kill, power play, etc.,” said Horvat, who made his NHL debut on November 4, 2014. “I think I'm really good on my draws and my positioning in the D zone, but I can also put up some points, as well.”

Second, the Canucks dodged a bullet since really Canucks needed change. Siging him 8x8 or whatever locked our pooorly built team into crapsville for 8 years. People say that Mangament are fools for signing Miller over Bo. That arugment has been all over these boards, so lets not rehash that all over.

Quickly, Miller had been the second best overall scorer on the team the past 3 years so I see why he got overpaid. He had 100 points something Bo has never had, and Miller for good parts of his time here HAS elevated over players he has played with.

I don't care what anyone says but the Canucks room had been broken for a number of years. The teams practices have been talked about on & over Bo's leadership for last two or three years. Keeping players, practice and all else is a big role for a Captain. Maybe just isn't C material.

Why sign him and Miller for big money long term. One had to go, and honestly kinda glad it was Bo, not cause he's bad but he was and is a symbol the Canucks old team thinking. Keeping Bo for the CANUCKS just kept things the same. For us Canuck heads thats a bullet proof vest.

I do not think you will find to many Canuck fans overly celebrating his loss, he was a awesome Canuck... but you will find us exhaling knowing change was needed, and this was a good step. T

My gut on Bo is he is a great hockey player but not a guy to build around. He has that knack for being at his best when the big games are on the line for sure, so long as he has speed.

 

[Djp]

We'll see how this turns out. I remember when Brock Nelson signed his current contract there was a thread with posts like this laughing at the deal. Now he's an incredible bargain. Yeah, Horvat's $8.5M is a lot for a 60-65 point player on the one hand. But we're talking about a 6' 215lb Center with intangibles (some posters here root for teams that could really use a guy like Horvat, BTW ). Was 8x $9.5M excessive for Mark Stone when he was signed at the same age? Not a dynamic player, maybe a point per game guy with some size and intangibles, and a winger not a C. He turned out okay.


Let's not go OT. Leave the NYR out of this.

7+ yr contracts on 29+yr older players on $5M+ cap hits are generally never smart moves.

 

[Osakahaus]

11 mil for 2 points in 7 vs 19 mil for 4 points in 6 games for the dynamic duo, it’s a tough call. The thing is even with Panarin struggling the Rangers can still afford a real 1C, 1W, etc instead of having to play the corpse of Parise or Palmieri at 1W. The islanders are capped out with nothing even resembling a 1W or legit 1C in the system.

Horvat can win faceoffs, don’t lump in two way play with that by default. If his defensive game got twice as good overnight it would finally start approaching average.

You don't watch the islanders then so lmao. They never put Parise on the 1st line, and Palmieri is effective but never played much with Barzal/Horvat. If anything, they kept trying to staple the corpse of Bailey with Barzal for THREE YEARS to agonizing results. If you considered Parise a corpse, who was very good for the penalty kill, power play, third line, and even teaching Simon Holmstrom, then you do not understand the islanders at all.

Stop talkin

7+ yr contracts on 29+yr older players on $5M+ cap hits are generally never smart moves.

And if Horvat continues to grow on the isles? What next?

The isles focus on being a team that can throw you plenty of competent players who arent exactly superstars, but they can get the job done. I think Horvat will be fine for his first 4-6 years, then he starts to go down a trajectory like Lee (But hopefully no injuries)

 

[Martin Skoula]

You don't watch the islanders then so lmao. They never put Parise on the 1st line, and Palmieri is effective but never played much with Barzal/Horvat. If anything, they kept trying to staple the corpse of Bailey with Barzal for THREE YEARS to agonizing results. If you considered Parise a corpse, who was very good for the penalty kill, power play, third line, and even teaching Simon Holmstrom, then you do not understand the islanders at all.

Stop talkin


And if Horvat continues to grow on the isles? What next?

The problem is having these 3rd rate 60 point guys who can do a bad impression of how a center plays getting paid almost 10 mil drives prices up for everyone else, I unfortunately sometimes feel compelled to check in to see if I’m missing something like Selke calibre defense from them but clearly that could not possibly be further from the truth.

 

[isles55]

No, Go back to 2019. I'm comparing the 8x $9.5M contract Stone signed 4+ years ago when he was 27 with the 8x $8.5M contract Horvat signed this year at 27. Stone has hovered around being a point per game winger with size and intangibles. Horvat has hovered around .75 points per game as a C (more valuable position) with size and intangibles. But yeah, totally irrelevant.

Saying both Horvat and Stone have “intangibles” is disingenuous. Stone is a perennial Selke candidate, and Horvat just wins faceoffs. Stone was an elite player you can build your offense around when he signed, Horvat isn’t.

 

[EverTheCynic]

I wanted Horvat off the team so badly I'd have been happy if he was waived.

Horvat is not what Vancouver fans said he is, and Long Island is gonna learn that the hard way.

Our fanbase is delusional

 

[Ignite111]

The problem is having these 3rd rate 60 point guys who can do a bad impression of how a center plays getting paid almost 10 mil drives prices up for everyone else, I unfortunately sometimes feel compelled to check in to see if I’m missing something like Selke calibre defense from them but clearly that could not possibly be further from the truth.

You have a 4th Dman making 8 mil a year. He’s the one driving up the prices.

Barzel at 9.1 > Trouba at 8
Horvat 8.5 > Trouba at 8

 

[DollardStLaurent]

My dream scenario is that a guy like Horvat comes into a season weighing 300lbs. It would teach the league a much needed lesson regarding these ridiculous length guaranteed contracts.

Could happen with all the great food and restaurants on Long Island.

 

[BluesyShoes]

He would have gotten paid everywhere anyways.

Now he decided to enter into the most vanilla situation

Only NYI and Vancouver had a chance to offer 8 years term. Vancouver wouldn't offer $8.5M, hence the trade. I doubt many teams would offer him over $8.5x7 to make up the difference in term. NYI was likely the best offer he was gonna see and he was happy with the city and organization. As a bonus, travel is best in the league and he will see his family way more than he did in Vancouver. But sure, maybe he's a fool who figured NYI was his best chance at the cup, it is possible!

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If he got to the open market he would have had a number atarting with 8.

He scored 40 goals this year. High face off and basically a lock for 30 goals.

let's not kid ourselves.

 

[BCNate]

I think with Horvat you should expect:
30 goals
60 points
High Faceoff %
very good net front presence
He is a stand up guy, solid leader.

He isn't:
200 ft player, he is not above average defensively
Penalty killer
I'd be surprised if he flirts with 40 goals again

I think the 7x7 the Canucks offered was as high as I would have gone, but I do think he would have go 8+ on the open market.

 

[BB88]

It’s not even close to market value. Duchene is better and made less and just got bought out. Kuznetsov makes even less, is also better, and apparently can’t be given away. Horvat got overpaid by ~2 million. That doesn’t mean the Isles can’t be happy to have him, but there’s almost no chance anyone was going to be offering him remotely close to 68 million in free agency.

What does Duchene or Kuz contracts have to do with contracts signed today?

Kuz signed in 2017
Duchene in 2019.

Just so lazy

& you know why Kuz has low value right now, declining play, older, off ice/character concerns.

 

[doublechili]

Saying both Horvat and Stone have “instangibles” is disingenuous. Stone is a perennial Selke candidate, and Horvat just wins faceoffs. Stone was an elite player you can build your offense around when he signed, Horvat isn’t.

At the time Stone signed his current 8x $9.5M contract with VGK immediately after being traded, he was coming off years with OTT of:

80GP 64pts
75GP 61pts
71GP 54pts
58GP 62pts
59GP 62pts

I'm not disputing that Stone is a great player, but he was basically a borderline point per game player when he signed that contract. Not an elite player you build your offense around. History, especially this year's Cup, have proven that to be a worthwhile deal. We'll see about Horvat.

 

[crashthenet]

I think with Horvat you should expect:
30 goals
60 points
High Faceoff %
very good net front presence
He is a stand up guy, solid leader.

He isn't:
200 ft player, he is not above average defensively
Penalty killer
I'd be surprised if he flirts with 40 goals again

I think the 7x7 the Canucks offered was as high as I would have gone, but I do think he would have go 8+ on the open market.

You left better on the PP than what we've been icing this decade. So there's that. I am not a huge advance stats guy but they do factor into the contract discussion and his 5v5 numbers are pretty good. Not disputing what your eyes tell you btw.

As far as the contract he wasn't taking 7x7 as you mentioned and got market price. Funny ranger fans chiding the Isles fans for not being fiscally responsible. Trouba at 8 is a joke and the gluten free bread man will do his baking far from the danger zone. Horvat got what the market dictated and no more. PLD and Timo forced trades and got the same deal. Nothing to see here.

 

[Ole Gil]

At the time Stone signed his current 8x $9.5M contract with VGK immediately after being traded, he was coming off years with OTT of:

80GP 64pts
75GP 61pts
71GP 54pts
58GP 62pts
59GP 62pts

I'm not disputing that Stone is a great player, but he was basically a borderline point per game player when he signed that contract. Not an elite player you build your offense around. History, especially this year's Cup, have proven that to be a worthwhile deal. We'll see about Horvat.

ppg and Selke caliber defense. That's a pretty big component of his worth.

 

[Mike C]

You left better on the PP than what we've been icing this decade. So there's that. I am not a huge advance stats guy but they do factor into the contract discussion and his 5v5 numbers are pretty good. Not disputing what your eyes tell you btw.

As far as the contract he wasn't taking 7x7 as you mentioned and got market price. Funny ranger fans chiding the Isles fans for not being fiscally responsible. Trouba at 8 is a joke and the gluten free bread man will do his baking far from the danger zone. Horvat got what the market dictated and no more. PLD and Timo forced trades and got the same deal. Nothing to see here.

His power play effectiveness would escalate if Lee isn't out there with him. I watched a lot of Horvat in Vancouver. Lee essentially gets in his way. The smart coach would have one on PP1 and the other on PP2

 

[CherryToke]

I wanted Horvat off the team so badly I'd have been happy if he was waived.

Horvat is not what Vancouver fans said he is, and Long Island is gonna learn that the hard way.

Our fanbase is delusional

I blame Thomas Drance. Won't find a bigger Horvat slurper

 

[Osakahaus]

I wanted Horvat off the team so badly I'd have been happy if he was waived.

Horvat is not what Vancouver fans said he is, and Long Island is gonna learn that the hard way.

Our fanbase is delusional

And this is why the Canucks will stay perpetually mediocre.

His power play effectiveness would escalate if Lee isn't out there with him. I watched a lot of Horvat in Vancouver. Lee essentially gets in his way. The smart coach would have one on PP1 and the other on PP2

Lee also is a lot older, slower, and takes up more space. Bo has genuinely good tip in skills: why not make him the bumperman on PP1?

 

[Osakahaus]

I think with Horvat you should expect:
30 goals
60 points
High Faceoff %
very good net front presence
He is a stand up guy, solid leader.

He isn't:
200 ft player, he is not above average defensively
Penalty killer
I'd be surprised if he flirts with 40 goals again

I think the 7x7 the Canucks offered was as high as I would have gone, but I do think he would have go 8+ on the open market.

Yeah THIS is basically the expectation, but the isles did deploy him on the PK to varying degrees

 

[Mike C]

And this is why the Canucks will stay perpetually mediocre.


Lee also is a lot older, slower, and takes up more space. Bo has genuinely good tip in skills: why not make him the bumperman on PP1?

Because Handsome Lane Is an idiot?

 

[Osakahaus]

Because Handsome Lane Is an idiot?

Lane is very clueless but he does care. I think MacLean is the massive blame for a LOT of poor games, along with Houda. Begging to god he gets canned soon, or the power play realizes that it can be more than just one dimension.