Norris Finalists: Doughty, Hedman, Subban

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
3,441
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has the top 2 d-core supporting him

Subban had Emelin for most of the year, that guy is an anchor. Josi had Ekholm and that pairing had all the cushy line matches.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.spo...alyzing-nhls-top-5-defensive-pairings/sn-amp/

"The Nashville Predators are the only team to boast both a top line and a top pairing that makes the top five, but at a glance both of them are the most questionable inclusions. Roman Josihas had an absurdly excellent start to the season alongside Mattias Ekholm, but the two have played easier minutes than they’re used to both in terms of quality of competition and teammates".
 

Refuse

Sin City Soldiers
Aug 23, 2005
2,421
1,070
Do you know that to be true?

I would imagine they just hold the ballots until 2 - 3 days before the awards show and count them then.
They wouldn't know who the finalists ( top 3) are unless they count the votes man. There really should be a sticky on here during this time of year explaining the process to avoid all the confusion surrounding the awards voting.
 

ImNeverWrong

THE HF ALPHA
Jan 18, 2018
2,268
1,849
Subban had Emelin for most of the year, that guy is an anchor. Josi had Ekholm and that pairing had all the cushy line matches.

Acknowledging and analyzing the NHL’s top 5 defensive pairings - Sportsnet.ca

"The Nashville Predators are the only team to boast both a top line and a top pairing that makes the top five, but at a glance both of them are the most questionable inclusions. Roman Josihas had an absurdly excellent start to the season alongside Mattias Ekholm, but the two have played easier minutes than they’re used to both in terms of quality of competition and teammates".

Facts don't matter when people have a cooked in agenda. The hate that PK gets is beyond his ability as a player.
 

ProspectsFanatic

Registered User
Nov 13, 2012
3,699
2,428
I've just seen the betting odds on mise-o-jeu, a betting service in Quebec.
Hedman 1,40
Subban 3.25
Doughty6.00

I've looked in 2 betting sites in the US and didn't see anything on Norris winner. Is Doughty that underdog?

Yea the odds seem very flawed to me I am thinking on putting a lot of money on Hedman and Doughty (more on Hedman to balance out because his mulitplayer is smaller), in a way so whoever win between the two you would be making money. You just lose a lot if Subban wins but that seems very unlikely to me.
 
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yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
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Yea the odds seem very flawed to me I am thinking on putting a lot of money on Hedman and Doughty (more on Hedman to balance out because his mulitplayer is smaller), in a way so whoever win between the two you would be making money. You just lose a lot if Subban wins but that seems very unlikely to me.

Hedman is winning it. Picking anyone else will be a bad bet
 
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stl76

No. 5 in your programs, No. 1 in your hearts
Jul 2, 2015
9,049
8,330
What's the political agenda?
The only one I see are fans that have a racial bias against PK.
He's consistently ranked in the top 5 dman in the NHL year after year - Josi is not in the top 10.
This year he has more goals and points despite being paired with the ineffective Emelin, and being given the tougher defensive assignments.
Not sure where you get your bias from, but I suspect it's the most common PK reason.

Subban had Emelin for most of the year, that guy is an anchor. Josi had Ekholm and that pairing had all the cushy line matches.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.spo...alyzing-nhls-top-5-defensive-pairings/sn-amp/

"The Nashville Predators are the only team to boast both a top line and a top pairing that makes the top five, but at a glance both of them are the most questionable inclusions. Roman Josihas had an absurdly excellent start to the season alongside Mattias Ekholm, but the two have played easier minutes than they’re used to both in terms of quality of competition and teammates".
Subban had more 5v5 defensive zone starts and slightly more primary points than other top dmen. That is the sum total of the argument in favor of him for Norris. Look at top defensemen around the league and you'll see that many, if not most, carried around lesser partners. The credit Subban gets for carrying around the "ineffective Emelin," is over the top IMO. Worth pointing out that Hedman's most common partner was Dotchin and Doughty's was Forbort. I really don't believe that Emelin is THAT much worse of a player than Dotchin or Forbort are currently.

Subban had a fantastic season against relatively weaker competition. PK played the 4th toughest 5v5TOI% quality of competition among Nashville dmen at 29.12. For the record, Josi was #1 at 29.30, followed by Ellis 29.25, and then Ekholm 29.18 before Subban. Doughty and Hedman both played significantly tougher competition that Subban with 29.5 (!!!) and 29.27, respectively.

"One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong!"
 

RickP

Registered User
Mar 14, 2017
970
514
Subban had more 5v5 defensive zone starts and slightly more primary points than other top dmen. That is the sum total of the argument in favor of him for Norris. Look at top defensemen around the league and you'll see that many, if not most, carried around lesser partners. The credit Subban gets for carrying around the "ineffective Emelin," is over the top IMO. Worth pointing out that Hedman's most common partner was Dotchin and Doughty's was Forbort. I really don't believe that Emelin is THAT much worse of a player than Dotchin or Forbort are currently.

Subban had a fantastic season against relatively weaker competition. PK played the 4th toughest 5v5TOI% quality of competition among Nashville dmen at 29.12. For the record, Josi was #1 at 29.30, followed by Ellis 29.25, and then Ekholm 29.18 before Subban. Doughty and Hedman both played significantly tougher competition that Subban with 29.5 (!!!) and 29.27, respectively.

"One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong!"

I'm not a big fan of that QoC TOI% stat, but yeah you have to give credit to Doughty, he plays very often against the other team's top line. But the difference between Subban's 29.12 and Hedman's 29.27 is not very significant.

And if you really use QoC TOI% as a reference, then you have to look at QoT TOI% too.

Subban: 27.57
Hedman: 28.05
Doughty: 28.44
Josi: 28.28

Subban played with significantly "weaker" teammates than the other finalists, and I included Josi too, for good measures. The difference is much bigger than the QoC TOI% difference.

Not saying Subban will win, but I think the QoT argument is in Subban's favor.

(The thing I don't like with QoC TOI% though, and I mentionned it in the past, is if you play against McDavid, and he plays with Slepyshev and Lucic, your QoC TOI% will not be very high, yet you're facing arguably the toughest competition in the league. So I believe there's a margin of error that you have to consider)
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
23,285
5,532
Tampa FL
Subban had more 5v5 defensive zone starts and slightly more primary points than other top dmen. That is the sum total of the argument in favor of him for Norris. Look at top defensemen around the league and you'll see that many, if not most, carried around lesser partners. The credit Subban gets for carrying around the "ineffective Emelin," is over the top IMO. Worth pointing out that Hedman's most common partner was Dotchin and Doughty's was Forbort. I really don't believe that Emelin is THAT much worse of a player than Dotchin or Forbort are currently.

Subban had a fantastic season against relatively weaker competition. PK played the 4th toughest 5v5TOI% quality of competition among Nashville dmen at 29.12. For the record, Josi was #1 at 29.30, followed by Ellis 29.25, and then Ekholm 29.18 before Subban. Doughty and Hedman both played significantly tougher competition that Subban with 29.5 (!!!) and 29.27, respectively.

"One of these things is not like the others, one of these things doesn't belong!"
Ey heddys a beast no wonder he plays that tough competition
 

yababy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2015
3,441
828
Subban? He’s not even the best D on his team lol! Josi is better by a country mile and everyone knows it.

Jodi? The same Jodi that's a collective -17 in his playoff career?
I think if you polled the Preds players they'd come up with Subban, including Josi
 

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