Friedman: Noah Hanifin could be traded this offseason

[Big Daddy Cane]

I think Zacha for Hanifin might make a lot of sense. I know Carolina would want someone a bit more proven, but from a talent/age/potential perspective Zacha would be a good acquisition.

Zacha is arguably preferable to say Duchene, but he’s not an ideal return. I don’t think Carolina is desperate enough to move him for anything less than the ideal return at this point. Counter to the narrative about Carolina’s defense is that Hanifin is actually not expendable in the short-term with Bean/Fleury having yet to even play a regular season NHL game. There's shouldn't be any rush here.

 

[Aladyyn]

Reinhart for Hanifin makes so much sense. Sabres finally get their LD1 and the canes get their future 65-70 point 1C. A Skinner-Reinhart-X #1 line for Carolina would be downright filthy. I could see Skinner popping 40 goals and Reinhart 45-50 assists.

Hanifin is 2-3 years away from MAYBE being what the Sabres need. Let Reinhart play a season at C, get his value up before trading him.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Hanifin for Drouin+ sounds interesting.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

I'd offer Henrique, first round pick for next year and if the Devils need to add a bit more, a second round pick and a dman either in Merrill or Moore. Hell, I'd offer Greene Henrique and next years first round pick and a second round pick with some of Greene's salary retained if the Canes needed the cap help if that meant they could get Hanifin.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

Reinhart for Hanifin makes so much sense. Sabres finally get their LD1 and the canes get their future 65-70 point 1C. A Skinner-Reinhart-X #1 line for Carolina would be downright filthy. I could see Skinner popping 40 goals and Reinhart 45-50 assists.

Are you purely making assumptions here? Reinhart has scored 42 and 47 points in 79 games last 2 seasons. Lets say he grows at same rate for 2 more years before he enters his prime. That makes him ~60 points player. There are no signs of him becoming a 65-70 points player so far.

 

[Aladyyn]

Are you purely making assumptions here? Reinhart has scored 42 and 47 points in 79 games last 2 seasons. Lets say he grows at same rate for 2 more years before he enters his prime. That makes him ~60 points player. There are no signs of him becoming a 65-70 points player so far.

I don't think you realize just how much Reinhart was being held back by Bylsma.

 

[Nolan11]

Curious if canes fans would consider a Couture for Hanifin basis for a trade. (This is just hypothetical, as Logan has a limited NTC where he names only 3 teams we can trade him to, you'd have to be on his list of 3)

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Curious if canes fans would consider a Couture for Hanifin basis for a trade. (This is just hypothetical, as Logan has a limited NTC where he names only 3 teams we can trade him to, you'd have to be on his list of 3)

We would but he becomes a UFA too soon for our liking. We want someone young and cost controlled for a while.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Are you purely making assumptions here? Reinhart has scored 42 and 47 points in 79 games last 2 seasons. Lets say he grows at same rate for 2 more years before he enters his prime. That makes him ~60 points player. There are no signs of him becoming a 65-70 points player so far.

I'm just curious, how much did you watch reinhart this year to say there are no signs of him being a 65-70 point player? Or are you just stat watching?

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Are you purely making assumptions here? Reinhart has scored 42 and 47 points in 79 games last 2 seasons. Lets say he grows at same rate for 2 more years before he enters his prime. That makes him ~60 points player. There are no signs of him becoming a 65-70 points player so far.

Not making assumptions at all. Going off of pre draft hype and the fact that Reinhart was considered the #1 forward prospect in the 2014 draft by virtually every draft pundit in the game of hockey. Reinhart was projected as a 2 way 75 point center. Yes, at the moment there are a few forwards who have passed Reinhart currently. But it has only been 3 years since he has been drafted. None of these players have fully developed yet. Draisaitl, Nylander, Ehlers and Pastrnak have passed him so far, but Reinhart still has the skill and potential to end up as the #1 forward from the 2014 draft. Going off of his production in his first two pro seasons is a terrible way to judge his career developmental path. This season he is likely to score at a 60ish point pace. By age 25 when he is fully developed he is almost assuredly going to be a 25/30-40/45-65/75 on his own merits. Him for Hanifin is a great trade value wise for both Buffalo and Carolina. Almost every Coyote fan was pushing for a Reinhart for #3 overall during the 2015 draft with the assumption Buffalo would select Hanifin.

Hanifin is 2-3 years away from MAYBE being what the Sabres need. Let Reinhart play a season at C, get his value up before trading him.

Realistically how much more could Reinhart raise his value? Hanifin is already a high end young D man with #1 potential. Unless you think that Reinhart can bring back someone even better then I don't see the need to wait that long. I also don't believe Hanifin will take 2-3 years to reach his ceiling.



Reinhart is still developing and is by far the smartest player from his draft class. His cerebral game is out of this world. He truly does have high end potential and can be a top end player from the 2014 draft class. He has top end versatility. He can play as a RW1 or a 1C. He is absolutely worth Noah Hanifin trade value wise.

 

[tsujimoto74]

1. He's not being shopped, this is (still) only pure speculation on Friedman's part.
2. If he was traded, he'd only be moved for a similarly aged/talented forward (i.e. Nylander, Drouin, Reinhart).
3. It has nothing to do with his development, he's developing just fine.

Any potential Hanifin trade would simply be taking from a position of strength (young defense) and using it to fill a weakness (young top line forward). Of course we'd prefer to trade Fleury/Bean + 1st to get a top line guy, but that probably won't be possible, so hence the Hanifin "talk".

What about swapping one of those guys for a forward prospect? It obviously wouldn't get you the immediate impact trading Hanifin would, but Carolina's young, so I'm not sure what the hurry is.

If Carolina's open to it, I might actually prefer something like that to a Reinhart/Hanifin swap.

 

[spockBokk]

What about swapping one of those guys for a forward prospect? It obviously wouldn't get you the immediate impact trading Hanifin would, but Carolina's young, so I'm not sure what the hurry is.

If Carolina's open to it, I might actually prefer something like that to a Reinhart/Hanifin swap.

Depends on who's offered. I could see GMRF happily dealing one of Fleury or Bean for a guy ready to play in the top 9, preferably top 6, and contribute.

However, I think Francis looks for a more established young top 6 guy by adding 12th OA to one of the d prospects.

 

[bernmeister]

Hanifin is 2-3 years away from MAYBE being what the Sabres need. Let Reinhart play a season at C, get his value up before trading him.

Are you purely making assumptions here? Reinhart has scored 42 and 47 points in 79 games last 2 seasons. Lets say he grows at same rate for 2 more years before he enters his prime. That makes him ~60 points player. There are no signs of him becoming a 65-70 points player so far.

I don't think you realize just how much Reinhart was being held back by Bylsma.

Not making assumptions at all. Going off of pre draft hype and the fact that Reinhart was considered the #1 forward prospect in the 2014 draft by virtually every draft pundit in the game of hockey. Reinhart was projected as a 2 way 75 point center. Yes, at the moment there are a few forwards who have passed Reinhart currently. But it has only been 3 years since he has been drafted. None of these players have fully developed yet. Draisaitl, Nylander, Ehlers and Pastrnak have passed him so far, but Reinhart still has the skill and potential to end up as the #1 forward from the 2014 draft. Going off of his production in his first two pro seasons is a terrible way to judge his career developmental path. This season he is likely to score at a 60ish point pace. By age 25 when he is fully developed he is almost assuredly going to be a 25/30-40/45-65/75 on his own merits. Him for Hanifin is a great trade value wise for both Buffalo and Carolina. Almost every Coyote fan was pushing for a Reinhart for #3 overall during the 2015 draft with the assumption Buffalo would select Hanifin.

Realistically how much more could Reinhart raise his value? Hanifin is already a high end young D man with #1 potential. Unless you think that Reinhart can bring back someone even better then I don't see the need to wait that long. I also don't believe Hanifin will take 2-3 years to reach his ceiling.

Reinhart is still developing and is by far the smartest player from his draft class. His cerebral game is out of this world. He truly does have high end potential and can be a top end player from the 2014 draft class. He has top end versatility. He can play as a RW1 or a 1C. He is absolutely worth Noah Hanifin trade value wise.

There is dissent on Hanifin v. Reinhart.
More quibbling than serious disagreement, but I continue not to see a consensus.

We would but he becomes a UFA too soon for our liking. We want someone young and cost controlled for a while.

And this is the problem with most returns offered.

 

[bernmeister]

Forget Hanifin-Reinhart.

Canes want cost controlled ELC; Sabes prefer impact D now.

Send both to Rangers!
It is commonly held on the boards that Stepan for Faulk is fair value if you adjust 2m ish dif in salary. Say that gets absorbed in the equation of package deal.

Buchnevich is cost controlled w/one whole extra year than Hani. He has similar ceiling, projects to be a top line W. Hanifin has not been lights out so far, but still looks very good to fulfilling most of his upside. It is fair to say Buchnevich, who has had less playing time due to a clueless head coach whose playing time decisions include top minutes for fading Staal, Girardi, is worth about 70=ish% at minimum of Hanifin.

To Stepan and Buch, add Grabner, 27 g + 1 yr cheap; Raanta, both at half, and a future 2nd.
Canes do Faulk with Hanifin and cap dump Lack

Canes use extra picks to move Ward to LV as their selection.
Win win, Carolina has upcoming D to fill the 2 slots opened, and adds nicely at Fs, while having Raanta-Darling tandem.

Rangers also benefit

Then,
McDonagh + Zuccarello + pick(s)
for
SReinhart + expiring EKane + better pick(s)

Sabes lose one guy early 20s, one in mid 20s, for 2 in late 20s, but get immediate impact players, and first dibs to extend both after/during upcoming 2 years.

Rangers build at pivot, Kane in contract year w/new start interesting, but no long term issue if its oil and water. Hate to do Zuc for EKane, but gotta give to get

 

[Street Hawk]

Zacha is arguably preferable to say Duchene, but he’s not an ideal return. I don’t think Carolina is desperate enough to move him for anything less than the ideal return at this point. Counter to the narrative about Carolina’s defense is that Hanifin is actually not expendable in the short-term with Bean/Fleury having yet to even play a regular season NHL game. There's shouldn't be any rush here.

I see Dallas as a potential fit for a Hannifin deal for the #3 pick, which would be any of Vilardi/Middlestedt/Glass. But, none of them should be in the NHL next season. Vilardi is the closest physically, but needs some work on his skating.

Question, then becomes, how NHL ready does Carolina need the return to be?

 

[RodTheBawd]

Forget Hanifin-Reinhart.

Canes want cost controlled ELC; Sabes prefer impact D now.

Send both to Rangers!
It is commonly held on the boards that Stepan for Faulk is fair value if you adjust 2m ish dif in salary. Say that gets absorbed in the equation of package deal.

Buchnevich is cost controlled w/one whole extra year than Hani. He has similar ceiling, projects to be a top line W. Hanifin has not been lights out so far, but still looks very good to fulfilling most of his upside. It is fair to say Buchnevich, who has had less playing time due to a clueless head coach whose playing time decisions include top minutes for fading Staal, Girardi, is worth about 70=ish% at minimum of Hanifin.

To Stepan and Buch, add Grabner, 27 g + 1 yr cheap; Raanta, both at half, and a future 2nd.
Canes do Faulk with Hanifin and cap dump Lack

Canes use extra picks to move Ward to LV as their selection.
Win win, Carolina has upcoming D to fill the 2 slots opened, and adds nicely at Fs, while having Raanta-Darling tandem.

Rangers also benefit

Then,
McDonagh + Zuccarello + pick(s)
for
SReinhart + expiring EKane + better pick(s)

Sabes lose one guy early 20s, one in mid 20s, for 2 in late 20s, but get immediate impact players, and first dibs to extend both after/during upcoming 2 years.

Rangers build at pivot, Kane in contract year w/new start interesting, but no long term issue if its oil and water. Hate to do Zuc for EKane, but gotta give to get

Sorry bern, back to the drawing board. We'll have to see what happens with Darling, but assuming he signs, Rantaa will have to be pulled.

And I'm kinda upset. Here we all played nice, then you go and try to throw Faulk into the mix. Come on buddy.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Here we go again with another bermeister fantasy proposal.

 

[Stickpucker]

Forget Hanifin-Reinhart.

Canes want cost controlled ELC; Sabes prefer impact D now.

Send both to Rangers!
It is commonly held on the boards that Stepan for Faulk is fair value if you adjust 2m ish dif in salary. Say that gets absorbed in the equation of package deal.

Buchnevich is cost controlled w/one whole extra year than Hani. He has similar ceiling, projects to be a top line W. Hanifin has not been lights out so far, but still looks very good to fulfilling most of his upside. It is fair to say Buchnevich, who has had less playing time due to a clueless head coach whose playing time decisions include top minutes for fading Staal, Girardi, is worth about 70=ish% at minimum of Hanifin.

To Stepan and Buch, add Grabner, 27 g + 1 yr cheap; Raanta, both at half, and a future 2nd.
Canes do Faulk with Hanifin and cap dump Lack

Canes use extra picks to move Ward to LV as their selection.
Win win, Carolina has upcoming D to fill the 2 slots opened, and adds nicely at Fs, while having Raanta-Darling tandem.

Rangers also benefit

Then,
McDonagh + Zuccarello + pick(s)
for
SReinhart + expiring EKane + better pick(s)

Sabes lose one guy early 20s, one in mid 20s, for 2 in late 20s, but get immediate impact players, and first dibs to extend both after/during upcoming 2 years.

Rangers build at pivot, Kane in contract year w/new start interesting, but no long term issue if its oil and water. Hate to do Zuc for EKane, but gotta give to get

I'm listening. ..please post all 3 teams lineups post trade as well as update us on their cap situation s.

 

[DaveG]

I think we need to find a way to get Tampa in on this one as well. 2 Metro teams and 2 Atlantic, makes sense right?

 

[Chan790]

Question, then becomes, how NHL ready does Carolina need the return to be?

Impactful. If we move Hanifin...and I don't think we will because the offers have been underwhelming...we're looking to make something similar to the Jones for RyJo swap in order to improve the Canes both immediately and long-term.

I don't see a viable deal with Dallas because we're not going to be interested in their draft pick.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Depends on who's offered. I could see GMRF happily dealing one of Fleury or Bean for a guy ready to play in the top 9, preferably top 6, and contribute.

However, I think Francis looks for a more established young top 6 guy by adding 12th OA to one of the d prospects.

I'm not really sure how Fleury/Bean are valued (I don't really have the time to keep tabs on prospects besides Buffalo's), but Alex Nylander? He needs to get stronger, but the skill level is high, he can play all 3 forward positions, and he should be NHL-ready within the next year or 2.

 

[bernmeister]

Here we go again with another bermeister fantasy proposal.

this is not fantasy
it is an assumption: Stepan for Faulk is fair value IF you adjust for Stepan's 6.5 vs. Faulk's 4.8; Carolina cannot be stuck with that extra 2.0; however that can be done if in a separate deal by means of NY add or some other consideration.

In the package deal above, the extra salary got absorbed in the larger deal, without debit to Canes.

The rest of the deal is a variant of something approved on the boards

It was
Stepan + Buch + Raanta + lesser picks
for
Hanifin + cap dumps + multiple juicy picks

the cap was there, the value was = and fair

If I am remembering correctly
the change makes it
a package where Stepan cancels out Faulk
[this is ok b'c Canes need F/C help, and have depth to cover Faulk}
and
to Buchnevich, who is at least 70% of value of Hanifin, and is cost controlled one yar more than Hani,
NY adds Raanta at half, as well as Grabner, also at half
and sends a future 2nd

along with Stepan the Canes only send Hanifin and cap dump Lack at full pop

Under the revision, instead of 3 lesser picks from NY, Canes get a 2nd
instead of Carolina sending multiple picks, they send nothing more
and they are getting Grabner at half

they are not being hosed
and it is not a fantasy

 

[Brock Anton]

I'm not really sure how Fleury/Bean are valued (I don't really have the time to keep tabs on prospects besides Buffalo's), but Alex Nylander? He needs to get stronger, but the skill level is high, he can play all 3 forward positions, and he should be NHL-ready within the next year or 2.

I'd do Bean with like a pick or something for Nylander. For Fleury, I'd want someone a bit more NHL ready (it's not from BUF, but for example a guy like Kapanen would fit the bill for Fleury).

 

[bernmeister]

Sorry bern, back to the drawing board. We'll have to see what happens with Darling, but assuming he signs, Rantaa will have to be pulled.

And I'm kinda upset. Here we all played nice, then you go and try to throw Faulk into the mix. Come on buddy.

Raanta and Darling

I have made an assumption and if you show this is a miscalculation vs Carolina interest, I will apologize and "go back to the drawing board".

I figured you would prefer ideally to wind up with a combo of Raanta - Darling, moving Ward. You have retained all those picks you were going to give up in the original deal, and you can use the correct 2 you negotiate with McPhee to have LV take Ward with their entry draft selection.

So you sign Darling, and you retain Raanta at half thru next year, with options on how to proceed.

Or, you can't get a deal w/Darling who wants to test the market. You still have Raanta replacing Lack, which is a clear win. You can still decide to move Ward or not, but I believe you will find going forward worth it,

And even if for argument you preferred to keep Ward over Raanta, you would still have to move Lack and pay Darling. But say you do. Obviously, you would have no problem whatsoever moving Raanta as a rental, esp at half. Dallas comes to mind. While they would try to get him on the cheap, it is not inconceivable that, even if you add, you can get former 1st ELC W Gurianov.

But I think you are better served keeping Raanta-Darling

So that addresses that

Again, please acknowledge that factually the revised deal
considers Stepan for Faulk a ballpark wash
and
in consideration of not using Stepan towards Hanifin
then with ELC Buchnevich is still
add of Grabner at half
deletion of Canes obligation to send all those draft picks
and 3 lesser Ranger picks replaced by one better one

so, pal-o-meano, pal-o-mino,
ya still think Canes were shortchanged and I did not play nice?;

 

[bernmeister]

I'm listening. ..please post all 3 teams lineups post trade as well as update us on their cap situation s.

Thank you for listening w/an open mind.

I am slammed this very second, and have to go, but I will get back to you w/in apprx 24 hours with specifics.

Can assure you the cap hits are extremely close w/Rangers and Canes.
It is also I think acceptably close as to Buf, but even if it isn't, it is nothing a minor cap dump can't correct.

At your request, I will attempt to comply w/all 3 teams lineups, though I may not get the Sabes and Canes exactly right beyond the more obvious bigger names. At your request I will take a shot at it.

Thanks in advance for your courtesy