Speculation: NJD Offseason Part III

[Emperoreddy]

Elias is also one of the smartest hockey players around.

 

[dzubrus8]

Going off my original post, I wouldn't mind seeing a lineup like this

Cammalleri - Henrique - Eriksson
Boucher - Zajac - Palmieri
Elias - Zacha - Smith-Pelly
Kalinin - Josefson - Pietila
extra: UFA signing

Goligoski - Larsson
Greene - Severson
Merrill - Santini/Mozik
extra: Moore

Schneider
Wedgewood/Kinkaid

 

[dzubrus8]

One guy I wouldn't mind taking a long look at this summer if we're going to try to pluck foreign stars is Steve Moses. Nashville kicked the tires on him last year and send him to Russia after just 16 games. I don't know how he didn't make the Predators' roster but the guy is clearly a scorer at the KHL level. Give him a similar one-year deal that allows him to go back to Russia if he clears waivers.

Also, I wouldn't mind trying to work out a deal with Chicago: Andrew Shaw for a 2017 2nd round pick and Jon Merrill. Offers them cap relief with a good player coming back to NJ who can potentially step up into a 2nd line role.

(Also, for those saying that Hudler was in free fall this year: he finished top-25 in p/60 this year at 5v5.)

 

[Zippy316]

One guy I wouldn't mind taking a long look at this summer if we're going to try to pluck foreign stars is Steve Moses. Nashville kicked the tires on him last year and send him to Russia after just 16 games. I don't know how he didn't make the Predators' roster but the guy is clearly a scorer at the KHL level. Give him a similar one-year deal that allows him to go back to Russia if he clears waivers.

Also, I wouldn't mind trying to work out a deal with Chicago: Andrew Shaw for a 2017 2nd round pick and Jon Merrill. Offers them cap relief with a good player coming back to NJ who can potentially step up into a 2nd line role.

(Also, for those saying that Hudler was in free fall this year: he finished top-25 in p/60 this year at 5v5.)

Interesting about Hudler. I feel like he will be next years Stempniak.

Seems like Moses is signed with SKA through 17/18 so I don't see him coming back any time soon.

I would pass at Shaw, especially at that price. He's going to be the next Clarkson and while he won't make as much as Clarkson did, I wouldn't want to be the one to pay him either. I also think he will be a bit redundant with DSP and hopefully one of Coleman/Pietila taking that gritty bottom six role.

As for your line-up, replace Eriksson with Hudler/Purcell on a short term deal and I could see that being next years lineup.

 

[TheDarkSideOfThePuck]

What about Jamie McGinn? He's 27 years old and will be cheaper Eriksson/Okposo/Boedker. He can play LW or RW and you can put him on any line. You can expect 30-35 points from him.

 

[Zippy316]

What about Jamie McGinn? He's 27 years old and will be cheaper Eriksson/Okposo/Boedker. He can play LW or RW and you can put him on any line. You can expect 30-35 points from him.

Problem with him is the Devils have Palmieri penciled into 2RW and 3RW. They will likely keep the LW side open for their prospects and/or Elias.

McGinn is likely better than DSP on the RW, but I feel like he's not good enough to want to commit money and term to (which he will get as a 27 year old UFA) where we are at now. We're better off signing a guy like Hudler/Purcell who could contribute the same, if not more, on a shorter deal and be a stop gap for better options down the road.

 

[dzubrus8]

Interesting about Hudler. I feel like he will be next years Stempniak.

Seems like Moses is signed with SKA through 17/18 so I don't see him coming back any time soon.

I would pass at Shaw, especially at that price. He's going to be the next Clarkson and while he won't make as much as Clarkson did, I wouldn't want to be the one to pay him either. I also think he will be a bit redundant with DSP and hopefully one of Coleman/Pietila taking that gritty bottom six role.

As for your line-up, replace Eriksson with Hudler/Purcell on a short term deal and I could see that being next years lineup.

According to this link, Steve Moses is only signed for one year (is a free agent) https://www.rt.com/sport/324905-steve-moses-khl-return-ska/

Maybe that 2nd could become one of our 3rds or something if we also throw in Merrill. He's definitely gritty but I especially like that he is a C/RW. This team will be short quality centers if Zacha goes back to Sarnia, JQ needs more seasoning, or one of the centers inevitably gets injured.

I didn't really mention it, but I don't like how the Devils as currently constructed have two natural centers (Zajac, Josefson) and two flex wingers. I wouldn't have minded a Matt Barzal or a Travis Konecny last year for that reason. Maybe Zacha proves me wrong and plays best at center, but that's what it seems like to me.

I'm a big Hudler fan and was shocked that Calgary sold him for pennies on the dollar. He has some durability concerns, however. I don't know if he ever played much in Calgary with Cam but if so he'll have that connection in NJ. I'd go for 2 years $10 million with Hudler

 

[RSeen]

Going off my original post, I wouldn't mind seeing a lineup like this

Cammalleri - Henrique - Eriksson
Boucher - Zajac - Palmieri
Elias - Zacha - Smith-Pelly
Kalinin - Josefson - Pietila
extra: UFA signing

Goligoski - Larsson
Greene - Severson
Merrill - Santini/Mozik
extra: Moore

Schneider
Wedgewood/Kinkaid

Signing guys like Eriksson and Goligoski when we aren't ready to compete feels like rushing the rebuild. Luckily from everything Shero has said it seems like he is committed to the rebuild and this does seem likely. We don't need to sign 30+ year olds right now, there is no point in rushing the rebuild process. We are likely in for another season of missing the playoffs.

 

[Bleedred]

One guy I wouldn't mind taking a long look at this summer if we're going to try to pluck foreign stars is Steve Moses. Nashville kicked the tires on him last year and send him to Russia after just 16 games. I don't know how he didn't make the Predators' roster but the guy is clearly a scorer at the KHL level. Give him a similar one-year deal that allows him to go back to Russia if he clears waivers.

Meh

Why is it surprising that he didn't make the Predators roster? It's not like they were a bunch of chumps at offense. They were 12 in scoring this year, probably includes shootout goals too though. Not sure what they were without those.

His production a couple years ago pre-KHL wasn't that great in the Finish Elite League. I don't think he's anything special and a couple people were mad we didn't sign him last year. If we're making a signing like that, I'd like to maybe look for another player similar to him from the KHL, that's maybe a year or two younger and hasn't had a chance in North America yet.

 

[MadDevil]

I could see Shero trying to find lightning in a bottle again by signing a vet to a cheap one year deal like he did with Stempniak, but that's probably not going to happen with an Eriksson or a Goligoski. Hudler maybe, depending on how far his stock has fallen around the league.

 

[dzubrus8]

This team is not bad enough to get a string of top-5 or even top-10 picks. They are not good enough to contend. However, the jump from sub-par to playoff team is far smaller than the jump from cellar-dweller to mediocre. Notice how the same teams get trapped in the bottom-ten every year and the top-ten usually faces some sort large shake-up.

Half of the teams that qualified for this year's playoffs either did not make it the year before or the year before that. Beyond that, most teams slide up and down in the hierarchy: take, for example, the Penguins, who have made the playoffs in each of the last 10 seasons. Four times, they got bounced in round 1, two times in round 2, once in round 3, once in the SCF, and once they won.

The Devils were 20th in points this year. If they can move up four spots, they're a playoff team. You bring in a Goligoski and an Eriksson and suddenly that defense looks borderline elite and the offense goes from dead last to bottom-5, maybe bottom-10 in an injury free year. That's a playoff team and then once you get to the dance, we'll see what happens. But to be content with having the 11th pick is just stupid.

I'd rather be so bad and have a bottom-5 pick (which would require trading Schneider, among other pieces) or be a playoff team than finish at that 10-14 range.

Also, it's not hurting a rebuild in any other way to bring in a guy like Goligoski or Eriksson. There's nobody that projects to be a 1/2 RW on the team or a 2nd pairing LHD

 

[njdevils1982]

This team is not bad enough to get a string of top-5 or even top-10 picks. They are not good enough to contend. However, the jump from sub-par to playoff team is far smaller than the jump from cellar-dweller to mediocre. Notice how the same teams get trapped in the bottom-ten every year and the top-ten usually faces some sort large shake-up.

Half of the teams that qualified for this year's playoffs either did not make it the year before or the year before that. Beyond that, most teams slide up and down in the hierarchy: take, for example, the Penguins, who have made the playoffs in each of the last 10 seasons. Four times, they got bounced in round 1, two times in round 2, once in round 3, once in the SCF, and once they won.

The Devils were 20th in points this year. If they can move up four spots, they're a playoff team. You bring in a Goligoski and an Eriksson and suddenly that defense looks borderline elite and the offense goes from dead last to bottom-5, maybe bottom-10 in an injury free year. That's a playoff team and then once you get to the dance, we'll see what happens. But to be content with having the 11th pick is just stupid.

I'd rather be so bad and have a bottom-5 pick (which would require trading Schneider, among other pieces) or be a playoff team than finish at that 10-14 range.

Also, it's not hurting a rebuild in any other way to bring in a guy like Goligoski or Eriksson. There's nobody that projects to be a 1/2 RW on the team or a 2nd pairing LHD

go nuts man, ill pass

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17

 

[ScottyK]

This team is not bad enough to get a string of top-5 or even top-10 picks. They are not good enough to contend. However, the jump from sub-par to playoff team is far smaller than the jump from cellar-dweller to mediocre. Notice how the same teams get trapped in the bottom-ten every year and the top-ten usually faces some sort large shake-up.

Half of the teams that qualified for this year's playoffs either did not make it the year before or the year before that. Beyond that, most teams slide up and down in the hierarchy: take, for example, the Penguins, who have made the playoffs in each of the last 10 seasons. Four times, they got bounced in round 1, two times in round 2, once in round 3, once in the SCF, and once they won.

The Devils were 20th in points this year. If they can move up four spots, they're a playoff team. You bring in a Goligoski and an Eriksson and suddenly that defense looks borderline elite and the offense goes from dead last to bottom-5, maybe bottom-10 in an injury free year. That's a playoff team and then once you get to the dance, we'll see what happens. But to be content with having the 11th pick is just stupid.

I'd rather be so bad and have a bottom-5 pick (which would require trading Schneider, among other pieces) or be a playoff team than finish at that 10-14 range.

Also, it's not hurting a rebuild in any other way to bring in a guy like Goligoski or Eriksson. There's nobody that projects to be a 1/2 RW on the team or a 2nd pairing LHD

Hate a losers mentality

 

[RSeen]

This team is not bad enough to get a string of top-5 or even top-10 picks. They are not good enough to contend. However, the jump from sub-par to playoff team is far smaller than the jump from cellar-dweller to mediocre. Notice how the same teams get trapped in the bottom-ten every year and the top-ten usually faces some sort large shake-up.

Half of the teams that qualified for this year's playoffs either did not make it the year before or the year before that. Beyond that, most teams slide up and down in the hierarchy: take, for example, the Penguins, who have made the playoffs in each of the last 10 seasons. Four times, they got bounced in round 1, two times in round 2, once in round 3, once in the SCF, and once they won.

The Devils were 20th in points this year. If they can move up four spots, they're a playoff team. You bring in a Goligoski and an Eriksson and suddenly that defense looks borderline elite and the offense goes from dead last to bottom-5, maybe bottom-10 in an injury free year. That's a playoff team and then once you get to the dance, we'll see what happens. But to be content with having the 11th pick is just stupid.

I'd rather be so bad and have a bottom-5 pick (which would require trading Schneider, among other pieces) or be a playoff team than finish at that 10-14 range.

Also, it's not hurting a rebuild in any other way to bring in a guy like Goligoski or Eriksson. There's nobody that projects to be a 1/2 RW on the team or a 2nd pairing LHD

It won't help when they start declining in a few years and have overpaid contracts that hurt our ability to acquire other talent. We aren't contending next season, so I see no reason to sign a bunch of vets to try to shorten the rebuild. We probably aren't bad enough for a top 5 pick because of Schneider, but we sure as heck aren't good enough to make any type of impact in the playoffs. I'd rather keep cap space open for the future and get a decent pick than get bounced in 4 in the first round.

 

[RSeen]

Hate a losers mentality

It is not a losers mentality, that is the way teams rebuild successfully. Look at the Pens, Blackhawks, Oilers in the future, Sabres. All these teams have tanked. Oilers and Sabres are going to be very good teams. Leafs are tanking now and they are on their way to being a good team. I'd rather be a contender in a few years rather than a bubble team, even if it means tanking. Thats the system set in place, it incentivizes tanking.

 

[Bleedred]

go nuts man, ill pass

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/forumdisplay.php?f=17

I snorted out loud when clicking on the links.

It is not a losers mentality, that is the way teams rebuild successfully. Look at the Pens, Blackhawks, Oilers in the future, Sabres. All these teams have tanked. Oilers and Sabres are going to be very good teams.

Woah, woah woah, woah. Back it up a little bit there.

I've been hearing the Oilers were gonna be good for a decade now. I've acquired quite a few gray hairs in the time I've been hearing that. I'm starting to have the feeling that I might be Hiney Heading by the time the Oilers get out of their own way. The Sabres took a step forward this year, but lets not compare teams that haven't successfully completed these rebuilds yet. Especially a team that's been ''Rebuilding'' with lottery picks for almost a full decade now.

I'll give you the Hawks and Pens though. Maybe I'll even give you the Islanders or perhaps Panthers more recently. But maybe the Panthers need to make the playoffs again next year for that to be a good example.

Buffalo, Toronto, Edmonton, still remains to be seen. Edmonton shouldn't even be close to this conversation. They deserve the benefit of the doubt as much as a serial killer.

 

[Bleedred]

Elias is also one of the smartest hockey players around.

It would be nice if when he's all done, if he could donate his brain to the organization. Maybe disperse it to some of our more hockey IQ challenged players that we might have coming up.

I almost wonder what a guy like Gelinas or Tedenby could have done with Patty's brain, though it might have also been a waste of his brain.

 

[RSeen]

I snorted out loud when clicking on the links.


Woah, woah woah, woah. Back it up a little bit there.

I've been hearing the Oilers were gonna be good for a decade now. I've acquired quite a few gray hairs in the time I've been hearing that. I'm starting to have the feeling that I might be Hiney Heading by the time the Oilers get out of their own way. The Sabres took a step forward this year, but lets not compare teams that haven't successfully completed these rebuilds yet. Especially a team that's been ''Rebuilding'' with lottery picks for almost a full decade now.

I'll give you the Hawks and Pens though. Maybe I'll even give you the Islanders or perhaps Panthers more recently. But maybe the Panthers need to make the playoffs again next year for that to be a good example.

Buffalo, Toronto, Edmonton, still remains to be seen. Edmonton shouldn't even be close to this conversation. They deserve the benefit of the doubt as much as a serial killer.

Say what you want about the last while about the Oilers, but they have insane talent upfront. I'd much rather be in their position than ours in terms of rosters. Same for Buffalo. High draft picks is the best way to accumulate high end talent.

 

[MadDevil]

That's true, but it means **** all if you don't know how to manage that talent. Chicago keeps coming up as an example, but I wouldn't say they tanked to build what they have. They were just very poorly run for the better part of a decade and managed to stockpile talent. Then they brought in management who knew what to do with that talent. Edmonton and Buffalo have some nice talent, but it remains to be seen if Chiarelli and Murray are smart enough to manage that talent correctly.

The thing is, we're past the burn it all down and start over phase. We're trying to rebuild without having a handful of top 5-10 picks. While it is more difficult, I don't think it's impossible. And I also don't think the tanking method is nearly as proven a method as people claim it is.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Say what you want about the last while about the Oilers, but they have insane talent upfront. I'd much rather be in their position than ours in terms of rosters. Same for Buffalo. High draft picks is the best way to accumulate high end talent.

And they have been a bottom 3 team consistently. Even before McDavid got there this team should not of been as bad as it has been with the forwards they had.

There is no balance to what they have built, and they aren't going to have all these kids on the cheap forever. They will need to get paid and their first RFA contracts won't be cheap.

Buffalo has no defense. Not on the NHL roster or in the prospect pool. It will take a lot of time to fix that, and without it the team is going absolutely no where.

Oilers finally have a good GM now, so the smart thing would be to start trading some of those forwards for defense and maybe even goaltending. They also need to get some character guys in there because they have none.

All those forwards are going to win them nothing. They have to trade some away for picks and prospects for other aspects of the team.

 

[MichaelJ]

Say what you want about the last while about the Oilers, but they have insane talent upfront. I'd much rather be in their position than ours in terms of rosters. Same for Buffalo. High draft picks is the best way to accumulate high end talent.

Always has been, in every sport....that and trading veterans for high-ceiling prospects. Other roads usually lead to prolonged mediocrity. To the point that managing that talent is important, I have faith in out management team to put together a roster competently so I wouldn't see that as an issue with NJD.

Some seem just fine sitting at 11 and relying on the idea that there's not much difference between #4 and #11 but that's just wishful thinking. Sure, talent slides in some drafts and other picks wind up outperforming their projections but at that point you're relying on a combination of tremendous scouting and luck.

Call it a 'loser's mentality' all you want but the reality is it's delaying gratification for a better, longer-term payoff. For example, the Devils beat the Blackhawks and Kings twice this year. You could look at any win, but I chose them because they were two of the best regular season teams (we're talking about regular season games, their playoff exits are irrelevant) that this Devils team could've easily lost to. Sure, those momentary victories felt good for a moment, but we still didn't make the playoffs. Without those feathers in the cap, the team's record would have been the same as Columbus's. Would fans really trade a handful of (in the end) meaningless games over a potential building block player? That doesn't even take into account the relative trade value of a top 5-6 pick vs where the Devils are.

It's spilt milk at this point...I'll hope for the best and trust the management team. I'll just never understand the knee-jerk reaction of pointing and screaming "But Edmonton" anytime the discussion of whether or not losing a little more would've been in the team's best interests long-term come up.

 

[MichaelJ]

And they have been a bottom 3 team consistently. Even before McDavid got there this team should not of been as bad as it has been with the forwards they had.

There is no balance to what they have built, and they aren't going to have all these kids on the cheap forever. They will need to get paid and their first RFA contracts won't be cheap.

Buffalo has no defense. Not on the NHL roster or in the prospect pool. It will take a lot of time to fix that, and without it the team is going absolutely no where.

Oilers finally have a good GM now, so the smart thing would be to start trading some of those forwards for defense and maybe even goaltending. They also need to get some character guys in there because they have none.

All those forwards are going to win them nothing. They have to trade some away for picks and prospects for other aspects of the team.

Why do the Oilers have to trade their forwards for picks and prospects? Why can't they trade them for young players with some experience to balance out their roster? Chiarelli can have that team turned in the right direction a lot sooner than people think. I'm not assuming he will, but assuming he won't or can't ignores the tremendous strength of their asset base. If I'm in their shoes sitting at #4, I'd call COL and offer it for #9 and Barrie (as a framework). Then I'd offer #9 for Hamonic as a base for a deal with the Islanders. That's two potential moves that could makeover the defense and they wouldn't have even touched RNH, Eberle, or Yakupov yet.

 

[NJDevs26]

The thing is, we're past the burn it all down and start over phase. We're trying to rebuild without having a handful of top 5-10 picks. While it is more difficult, I don't think it's impossible. And I also don't think the tanking method is nearly as proven a method as people claim it is.

That's the thing people overlook. The successes get highly publicized and the constant failures glossed over or dismissed as bad management. Well bad management prevents you from winning with any method, and you can win with good management with any method, so let's not use that qualifier.

Plus it's only going to be harder to tank to win with the new lotto. The Oilers and Canucks finished in the bottom three and got booted out of that portion of the draft by two spots. And people counting the Oilers and Sabres as successes is vastly premature. Even the Panthers...still haven't won a playoff series in TWO DECADES.

And it's easy to say wait five years when you're playing a video game and simming seasons but five years is a long time in actual real life, for a payout that may or may not come. Five years can turn into ten can turn into twenty. I wouldn't have wanted to wait five years just to have a season like this year.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Ah, more tanking talk. Can we just have a separate thread for tanking like they do in other team's subforums so those of us who don't want to read about don't have it infecting other threads?

 

[Ripshot 43]

Ah, more tanking talk. Can we just have a separate thread for tanking like they do in other team's subforums so those of us who don't want to read about don't have it infecting other threads?

100% agreed. so sickening to read no matter who's team page it's on.