Proposal: NJD-MTL-CGY @ Draft

[madmike77]

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

I don’t think they need to.

They have to play a lot of young players, have only two proven NHL defencemen and no big-ticket FA is going to want to go there. They won’t be the worst team in the league, but they’ll likely be bottom 10.

 

[njdevil26]

Devils don't need to retain with Vitek gone.

They can have Markstrom and Allen next year for a 7.925 mil.

 

[Nanuuk]

I don’t think they need to.

They have to play a lot of young players, have only two proven NHL defencemen and no big-ticket FA is going to want to go there. They won’t be the worst team in the league, but they’ll likely be bottom 10.

Disagree. Our D will be fine.

 

[vokiel]

Everyone gets bent except Habs? Stay classy Habs fanatics, stay classy.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Disagree. Our D will be fine.

Fine? They will be serviceable at best. We are still going to suck

 

[Nanuuk]

I don't think so.

 

[SaintMorose]

If we're using these players from Calgary and New Jersey I'd imagine something much closer to

Flames Receive:
Holtz
NJD 2024 1st

Devils Receive:
Coronato
Markstrom (75% retained)
VAN 2024 1st

3rd team (lets say Montreal)
CGY 2024 3rd
NJD 2025 6th

Calgary gets the value of trading Markstrom to NJD
NJD get the late 1st instead of giving one up and get the high-end east coast prospect in a prospect swap

 

[crackdown44]

If we're using these players from Calgary and New Jersey I'd imagine something much closer to

Flames Receive:
Holtz
NJD 2024 1st

Devils Receive:
Coronato
Markstrom (75% retained)
VAN 2024 1st

3rd team (lets say Montreal)
CGY 2024 3rd
NJD 2025 6th

Calgary gets the value of trading Markstrom to NJD
NJD get the late 1st instead of giving one up and get the high-end east coast prospect in a prospect swap

Coronato and Holtz are pretty close to a wash so the flames are giving up Markstrom 50% retained, a 3rd, and a late 1st just for a mid 1st?

Awful for Calgary

 

[SaintMorose]

Coronato and Holtz are pretty close to a wash so the flames are giving up Markstrom 50% retained, a 3rd, and a late 1st just for a mid 1st?

Awful for Calgary

There's a good chance I might be over valuing Holtz

 

[crackdown44]

There's a good chance I might be over valuing Holtz

I think he definitely needs a change of scenery and would be a really intriguing piece for Calgary, just pointing out that Coronato’s production is pretty much identical at the AHL level.

I suspect he could duplicate or even be slightly better than what Holtz has done this year as a full time NHLer next year

 

[HighLifeMan]

If we're using these players from Calgary and New Jersey I'd imagine something much closer to

Flames Receive:
Holtz
NJD 2024 1st

Devils Receive:
Coronato
Markstrom (75% retained)
VAN 2024 1st

3rd team (lets say Montreal)
CGY 2024 3rd
NJD 2025 6th

Calgary gets the value of trading Markstrom to NJD
NJD get the late 1st instead of giving one up and get the high-end east coast prospect in a prospect swap

That is an absolutely horrible trade for Calgary.

 

[pth2]

If we're using these players from Calgary and New Jersey I'd imagine something much closer to

Flames Receive:
Holtz
NJD 2024 1st

Devils Receive:
Coronato
Markstrom (75% retained)
VAN 2024 1st

3rd team (lets say Montreal)
CGY 2024 3rd
NJD 2025 6th

Calgary gets the value of trading Markstrom to NJD
NJD get the late 1st instead of giving one up and get the high-end east coast prospect in a prospect swap

I won't comment on NJ vs CGY value, but whoever retains 25% on Markstrom for a couple of years should get more than a 3d and a 6th. That's still 3M in cap room over 2 seasons, plus some real money behind it.

(it won't be Montreal, since they're out of retention slots, and even when one becomes available in July, I doubt they'd use their only available slot to act as a 3d party broker)

 

[crackdown44]

I won't comment on NJ vs CGY value, but whoever retains 25% on Markstrom for a couple of years should get more than a 3d and a 6th. That's still 3M in cap room over 2 seasons, plus some real money behind it.

(it won't be Montreal, since they're out of retention slots, and even when one becomes available in July, I doubt they'd use their only available slot to act as a 3d party broker)

25% of Markstrom would only be 1.5, not 3

Edit: I realize now you meant total. I am dumb

 

[dgibb10]

Coronato and Holtz are pretty close to a wash so the flames are giving up Markstrom 50% retained, a 3rd, and a late 1st just for a mid 1st?

Awful for Calgary

NJDs 1st is currently at 8th overall. 8th overall for 75% markstrom, sure. Calgary can pay montreal or a 3rd party team for said 3rd party retention.

 

[pth2]

25% of Markstrom would only be 1.5, not 3

Edit: I realize now you meant total. I am dumb

A dumb person wouldn't have realized their mistake seconds after posting.
A dumb person wouldn't correct their post and own up to a silly little mistake that anyone could make.

 

[crackdown44]

NJDs 1st is currently at 8th overall. 8th overall for 75% markstrom, sure. Calgary can pay montreal or a 3rd party team for said 3rd party retention.

Why is Calgary paying for the third party retention when in this scenario it’s New Jersey that wants him retained (I don’t even think NJ needs retention on Markstrom now that they’ve cleared Vanecek)

Also it’s not Markstrom for 8th overall, Calgary is also giving up Vancouver’s 1st in this deal

 

[dgibb10]

Why is Calgary paying for the third party retention when in this scenario it’s New Jersey that wants him retained (I don’t even think NJ needs retention on Markstrom now that they’ve cleared Vanecek)

Also it’s not Markstrom for 8th overall, Calgary is also giving up Vancouver’s 1st in this deal

This was a separate proposal.

Calgary gets:
8th overall
NJD gets:
Markstrom 75%
3rd team gets:
2nd or market value on retention.

If we're talking unretained markstrom, at this point, NJD shouldn't offer a 1st at all

35 year old goalie at 6 mill, who, since the deal almost went through, has had a 0.878 in 8 games, gotten hurt, and burned his most valuable year

Next year at 35 years old at 6 mill: could be decent enough compared to a weak UFA crop
the last year at 36 years old at 6 mill: negative value, especially compared to all the UFA goalies available (Saros, Ullmark, Shesterkin, Hill, LT, Vejmelka, Georgiev, etc)

 

[crackdown44]

This was a separate proposal.

Calgary gets:
8th overall
NJD gets:
Markstrom 75%
3rd team gets:
2nd or market value on retention.

If we're talking unretained markstrom, at this point, NJD shouldn't offer a 1st at all

35 year old goalie at 6 mill, who, since the deal almost went through, has had a 0.878 in 8 games, gotten hurt, and burned his most valuable year

Next year at 35 years old at 6 mill: could be decent enough compared to a weak UFA crop
the last year at 36 years old at 6 mill: negative value, especially compared to all the UFA goalies available (Saros, Ullmark, Shesterkin, Hill, LT, Vejmelka, Georgiev, etc)

Well you responded to me responding to the separate proposal so that was the one I was referencing, yes

 

[Nocashstyle]

Coronato and Holtz are pretty close to a wash so the flames are giving up Markstrom 50% retained, a 3rd, and a late 1st just for a mid 1st?

Awful for Calgary

Right now it’s a top 10 pick…and with the way they’ve been playing, very much likely it comfortably stays a top 10 pick

 

[Bond]

I don't think so.

You are very optimistic. Flames dcore is bottom 5

 

[Nanuuk]

You are very optimistic. Flames dcore is bottom 5

Yes I am optimistic. And I'll tell you why.

Andersson (RD) and Weegar (LD/RD) are legitimate top 4 d-men.

Kylington (LD/RD), with his elite skating, is capable of big minutes and will be a legit top 4 guy as well.

Miromanov (RD)will turn out to be a steal of a deal for the Flames. Will he be a PP quarterback? We will see.

Pachal (RD) is another great pickup that has been and will be a solid addition on the 3rd pair.

Okhotiuk (LD) has also been a good pickup for the 3rd pair.

Hanley (LD) is a huge upgrade over Oesterle and Gilbert.

Then they have a couple of big Russian kids that could challenge for a full time spot next season in Kuznetsov and Solovyov.

With a lot of cap space I could also see Conroy signing another d-man in the summer to run the powerplay.

 

[FerrisRox]

Why is Montreal even involved except to obtain multiple good assets?

Not to mention, why are the Devils paying a premium to acquire massive retention when they don't require it?

There's is absolutely no reason for the Canadiens to be involved in this transaction and yet, they are by far the winners of the deal.

 

[AfroThunder396]

NJ doesn't need retention anymore. the deal should just be NJ's 1st 2024 (10th overall) for Markstrom + VAN's 1st 2024 (28th overall) + something minor (like a future 3rd or C prospect or something).

A Markstrom/Allen tandem will be totally fine next year. NJ just needs to hire a decent coach and trim a little fat on defense and they'll be in go mode.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yes I am optimistic. And I'll tell you why.

Andersson (RD) and Weegar (LD/RD) are legitimate top 4 d-men.

Kylington (LD/RD), with his elite skating, is capable of big minutes and will be a legit top 4 guy as well.

Miromanov (RD)will turn out to be a steal of a deal for the Flames. Will he be a PP quarterback? We will see.

Pachal (RD) is another great pickup that has been and will be a solid addition on the 3rd pair.

Okhotiuk (LD) has also been a good pickup for the 3rd pair.

Hanley (LD) is a huge upgrade over Oesterle and Gilbert.

Then they have a couple of big Russian kids that could challenge for a full time spot next season in Kuznetsov and Solovyov.

With a lot of cap space I could also see Conroy signing another d-man in the summer to run the powerplay.

I think you are definitely being optimistic here.

Our blue line will get by but we will probably average 3+ GA per game. It's not going to be god awful but it will be no where near the top 5 d-core we had in recent seasons. Do some of these guys have potential? Yes but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 strong but not elite defensemen, 1 probably solid top 4 caliber defenseman, and a few 3rd pair caliber defensemen. It will be better than multiple AHL defensemen but compared to the rest of the league it will probably be close to a bottom 5 d-core

 

[FLAMESFAN]

I think you are definitely being optimistic here.

Our blue line will get by but we will probably average 3+ GA per game. It's not going to be god awful but it will be no where near the top 5 d-core we had in recent seasons. Do some of these guys have potential? Yes but at the end of the day it boils down to 2 strong but not elite defensemen, 1 probably solid top 4 caliber defenseman, and a few 3rd pair caliber defensemen. It will be better than multiple AHL defensemen but compared to the rest of the league it will probably be close to a bottom 5 d-core

It might be a bottom 10 D core next year, but we'll still have Huber, Kadri, Sharan, Backs, Mangi, Kuz, Coleman, Zary etc....these are definitly decent players and with Wolf having even a bit of growth at the NHL level, we'll be closer to 10th than bottom 5