Proposal: NJD-MTL-CGY @ Draft

[Scintillating10]

Ill just go through it

Giroux trade
- Philly receives Florida's 2024 top 10 protected 1st, transfers to 2025 unprotected (unlikely)

Tkachuk trade
- Calgary receives Florida's 2025 top 10 protected 1st, Florida receives Calgary's 2025 4th

• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2024 and their 2025 1st is subsequently transferred to Philly then Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)
• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2025 Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)

Monahan trade
- Montreal receives the higher of Calgary's 2 2025 1sts at the time of the trade (Calgary's or Florida's, any other Calgary may acquire are unrelated) (likely)

• If Calgary's 2024 1st is in the 20-32 range of the draft Montreal has the option to select that pick instead (unlikely)
• If Calgary does not receive Florida's 2025 1st due to prior trade conditions then Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 1st unless its 1st OA, then it transfers to the higher of the 2 picks in 2026 (unlikely)
• If Calgary does receives Florida's 2025 1st but their own 1st is top 10 then Montreal receives Florida's 2025 1st (most likely scenario)

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Ill just go through it

Giroux trade
- Philly receives Florida's 2024 top 10 protected 1st, transfers to 2025 unprotected (unlikely)

Tkachuk trade
- Calgary receives Florida's 2025 top 10 protected 1st, Florida receives Calgary's 2025 4th

• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2024 and their 2025 1st is subsequently transferred to Philly then Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)
• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2025 Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)

Monahan trade
- Montreal receives the higher of Calgary's 2 2025 1sts at the time of the trade (Calgary's or Florida's, any other Calgary may acquire are unrelated) (likely)

• If Calgary's 2024 1st is in the 20-32 range of the draft Montreal has the option to select that pick instead (unlikely)
• If Calgary does not receive Florida's 2025 1st due to prior trade conditions then Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 1st unless its 1st OA, then it transfers to the higher of the 2 picks in 2026 (unlikely)
• If Calgary does receives Florida's 2025 1st but their own 1st is top 10 then Montreal receives Florida's 2025 1st (most likely scenario)

Can you imagine a scenario next year where the Habs / Flames meet for the final game of the season. The Flames are in 10th spot and if they win they move to 11th. The Habs meanwhile are not in playoff contention while Florida has just finished 1st in the standings.

Will either team try to win that game?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Ill just go through it

Giroux trade
- Philly receives Florida's 2024 top 10 protected 1st, transfers to 2025 unprotected (unlikely)

Tkachuk trade
- Calgary receives Florida's 2025 top 10 protected 1st, Florida receives Calgary's 2025 4th

• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2024 and their 2025 1st is subsequently transferred to Philly then Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)
• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2025 Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)

Monahan trade
- Montreal receives the higher of Calgary's 2 2025 1sts at the time of the trade (Calgary's or Florida's, any other Calgary may acquire are unrelated) (likely)

• If Calgary's 2024 1st is in the 20-32 range of the draft Montreal has the option to select that pick instead (unlikely)
• If Calgary does not receive Florida's 2025 1st due to prior trade conditions then Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 1st unless its 1st OA, then it transfers to the higher of the 2 picks in 2026 (unlikely)
• If Calgary does receives Florida's 2025 1st but their own 1st is top 10 then Montreal receives Florida's 2025 1st (most likely scenario)

Wait - what? ARe you saying that the Flames will likely not get Florida's 1 this year? And that the 2024 1st id going to Philly? I don't want to have this pick going to Montreal hanging over our head for another year...I just want it to be done.

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

Wouldn't it suck to suck, and then have to give your 1st pick to another team?
While I won't say they'll purposely tank, they'll likely have a pretty similar team to right now.

 

[pth2]

Wait - what? ARe you saying that the Flames will likely not get Florida's 1 this year? And that the 2024 1st id going to Philly? I don't want to have this pick going to Montreal hanging over our head for another year...I just want it to be done.

When I suggested Calgary move their 2023 pick for the conditional 2025 pick, I figured at least some Flames fans would see it like you do now - get the risk and uncertainty out of the way ASAP, give up a not-that-incredible 2023 pick and move forward from there. I got zero interest from Flames fans...

Proposal: - CGY 2023 1st for CGY 2025 1st

The Habs own a conditional first rounder for having taken Monahan's contract. The exact conditions are extremely complicated, but they come down to the pick being top 10 only if both Florida and Calgary have top-10 picks in 2025 (and it can't be 1st OA, the pick goes to 2026 in that case). (I'm...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

I think Calgary has no superstars. And is looking to draft them

I think Arizona will be a much better team with Sophomore Cooley, along with other guys like Geekie and and Guenther joining the team full time.

I think Anaheim will be much better with healthy Carlsson and Zegras, plus their young blue liners continue to mature and the addition of Gauthier.

I think Jersey is going to be much better with their rookies becoming sophomores, as well as Dougie returning.

I think Buffalo will be better as they now have a legitimate top 4 and the emergence of UPL as a starter.

I think Ottawa will be better with a coaching change, on paper their team is very good but lacks a legitimate system in practice.

I think Montreal's young stars will continue to improve, plus the return of Dach

I think Seattle will continue to improve their roster as well

I think Columbus will start turning the corner with their young stars.

I think Minnesota has a star player unlike Calgary

 

[FLAMESFAN]

When I suggested Calgary move their 2023 pick for the conditional 2025 pick, I figured at least some Flames fans would see it like you do now - get the risk and uncertainty out of the way ASAP, give up a not-that-incredible 2023 pick and move forward from there. I got zero interest from Flames fans...

Proposal: - CGY 2023 1st for CGY 2025 1st

The Habs own a conditional first rounder for having taken Monahan's contract. The exact conditions are extremely complicated, but they come down to the pick being top 10 only if both Florida and Calgary have top-10 picks in 2025 (and it can't be 1st OA, the pick goes to 2026 in that case). (I'm...

forums.hfboards.com

So you think it would be in our best interest to give up a certain ~10th pick for one that might be 11th? And that makes sense to you?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Can you imagine a scenario next year where the Habs / Flames meet for the final game of the season. The Flames are in 10th spot and if they win they move to 11th. The Habs meanwhile are not in playoff contention while Florida has just finished 1st in the standings.

Will either team try to win that game?

Players don't give a crap about draft position or picks. They go out there trying to win every game

 

[Haatley]

I'd do it, from Mtl pov

No kidding. You make out like bandits while the Flames get fleeced.

 

[pth2]

So you think it would be in our best interest to give up a certain ~10th pick for one that might be 11th? And that makes sense to you?

This was about the 2023 pick, so, the 16th overall pick that Calgary used on Honzek. My suggestion was that Calgary would be better off moving #16, which while a better than statistically likely to go to Montreal, was still a tolerable loss which eliminated any scenario of a higher pick, and meant Calgary's (including the Florida one) picks for 2024, 2025 and 2026 would then be available for trade (or to use as picks without fear of something happening to make that pick higher than expected).

Players don't give a crap about draft position or picks. They go out there trying to win every game

Coaches can make decisions to lower the odds of winning, though.

Montreal could play the 2nd PP unit to start every PP, for example, so the 2nd unit wastes the 1st minute of the PP since they aren't very good, instead of having the 5 best guys out there for over 100 seconds to start most PPs.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

This was about the 2023 pick, so, the 16th overall pick that Calgary used on Honzek. My suggestion was that Calgary would be better off moving #16, which while a better than statistically likely to go to Montreal, was still a tolerable loss which eliminated any scenario of a higher pick, and meant Calgary's (including the Florida one) picks for 2024, 2025 and 2026 would then be available for trade (or to use as picks without fear of something happening to make that pick higher than expected).


Coaches can make decisions to lower the odds of winning, though.

Montreal could play the 2nd PP unit to start every PP, for example, so the 2nd unit wastes the 1st minute of the PP since they aren't very good, instead of having the 5 best guys out there for over 100 seconds to start most PPs.

Coaches are not paid to intentionally lose. Because once they are fired or their contract ends they need to look for another job. Think a bit about what you are saying. It is the GM's job to choose the ultimate direction of the team, everyone else is fighting for their next paycheck

 

[NjdevilfanJim]

Is Markstrom still hurt? Or is he back?

 

[pth2]

Coaches are not paid to intentionally lose. Because once they are fired or their contract ends they need to look for another job. Think a bit about what you are saying. It is the GM's job to choose the ultimate direction of the team, everyone else is fighting for their next paycheck

Last game of the 1997-1998 season (as I recall), and the playoff opponent was going to depend on whether Montreal won or not. They played their backup goalie... and you could feel their backs weren't into this one. They lost, giving them the playoff opponent most figured was a better "fit" (pittsburgh).

Such things happen, and if the difference between winning or losing a game is the difference between pick 11 and 27, the coach will know what to do.

 

[Lunatik]

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

Tank? No.
Organically Bad? Yes.

 

[Bijelo]

Holtz in AHL right?

 

[DFF]

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

Yes , Treliving was a desperate moron , they are in a tough spot. Players won’t tank but they need to finish bottom 10

 

[Maitz]

So MTL would move WPG 1st '24 and Ylonen to receive Holtz Coronato and move up in the draft? They should at least give one of their top prospect D for that to happen.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

So MTL would move WPG 1st '24 and Ylonen to receive Holtz Coronato and move up in the draft? They should at least give one of their top prospect D for that to happen.

Habs would have zero interest in Holtz/Coronato. Especially Smurf Coronato.

 

[Bijelo]

Holtz should be in NHL.

 

[NJDevils#4]

Is this for real?

 

[Nocashstyle]

Holtz in AHL right?

Holtz should be in NHL.

What are you talking about? Holtz has played in all 68 games the Devils have played so far this season.

 

[ninetyeight]

Calgary not dealing Markström for the highest bidder is awful asset management. It's like pissing in your own food just so nobody else can eat it either. He's no use for CGY and will only hurt their rebuild. His perceived value peaked early this year, way above what it should. Just a year ago he was sub .900 and lately has been playing similar numbers. When the next season starts he's 4 months away from being 35, there's no guarantee how he'll look.

 

[Bijelo]

What are you talking about? Holtz has played in all 68 games the Devils have played so far this season.

I never heard of Holtz in NHL.

 

[Bond]

Last game of the 1997-1998 season (as I recall), and the playoff opponent was going to depend on whether Montreal won or not. They played their backup goalie... and you could feel their backs weren't into this one. They lost, giving them the playoff opponent most figured was a better "fit" (pittsburgh).

Such things happen, and if the difference between winning or losing a game is the difference between pick 11 and 27, the coach will know what to do.

Yeah. I feel like if the Flames are between 9 and 11 pick near the end of the season next year then we might see a really bad back up start lol

 

[Double Dion]

You think Calgary purposely tank next season?

No, I think there is no chance Calgary ever purposely tanks. I do think there's a chance players like Markstrom and Kadri want a trade this offseason though. That would leave us with 1 top 9 center on our roster and none to be had in the offseason. Backlund is a good defensive player, but he can't play the top 2 lines. Whichever one he doesn't play caves us in without Kadri.

 

[Lunatik]

He's no use for CGY

That's not true. he'd be an excellent mentor for Wolf.