Proposal: NJD-MTL-CGY @ Draft

[My3Sons]

The whole Markstrom thing is a false economy. Almost any player in the league is available for an overpay. Why not negotiate with Edmonton for Draisatl or some similar player with an extra year on their deal? No good goalies have moved in a while. Clearly teams are overplaying their hands right now. At some point Markstrom will decline and Calgary may prefer to just keep him rather than rebuild which I understand but if they want to trade him they have to take the best they can get before his value goes down.

 

[Bouboumaster]

I'd do it, from Mtl pov

 

[Wayfarer13]

Could they really? Has that ever happened before? Once a player is traded, he's gone.

You can't tack on retention later on AFAIK, otherwise retention would be traded independently of other assets, and that's never been done (which is why 3d party retention is so complex to follow through, since it's a series of deals)


If he really thinks that Calgary very badly wants their pick back, it's delusional but with still some foggy, distant link to a far-off reality somewhere in there.

The problem is, the trade conditions from the Monahan deal don't support that kind of valuation for that pick.

Future considerations is a pretty vague term and can mean anything

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I can see the proposal of Gallagher for the 1st though, which was suggested in another thread.
That one makes sense to me.

Habs will not give up assets to move Gallagher. They will probably eventually buy him out.

 

[pth2]

Future considerations is a pretty vague term and can mean anything

Retention has to occur with the player, the player, his contract and retention are a unit when traded, you can't slice and dice it the way you'd like.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

*Conditions: If the 2025 1st RD pick that Florida sent to Calgary is a lottery pick resulting in Calgary receiving Florida's 2026 1st RD pick instead,

Lottery pick meaning 'non-playoff' not Top 10 - You can win the lottery @ 16 - screenshot of Tankathon for reference.

View attachment 834624

In this example, STL jumped 10 spots from 13->3.

So if the Panthers miss the playoffs, they could choose to keep the pick if they wanted.

View attachment 834625

This means, if the Panthers keep their pick (meaning the Flames get the 2026 1st instead of the 2025 1st) the Flames have to give Montreal their 1st (2025) UNLESS it is the 1st overall pick.

If the Panthers trade their 2025 1st (most likely because the Panthers should be a dominant team again next season) to CGY, then the Habs get the lower of the two picks effectively.

This is the conditions to the Tkachuk trade

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Original poster is obviously a Habs fan since Montreal serves no purpose in this trade.

 

[NJDevils#4]

Hard pass

 

[treple13]

If the Flames could get Holtz and NJ's 1st for Markstrom, why are we trading them to Montreal?

 

[pth2]

If the Flames could get Holtz and NJ's 1st for Markstrom, why are we trading them to Montreal?

The OP clearly thought Calgary would be willing to pay through the nose to get their 1st rounder back, based on a misreading of the conditions attached to the Monahan deal. (even then it would've been an overpay, though).

 

[Bounces R Way]

What?
Why?

no

 

[Kielbasa]

This is the conditions to the Tkachuk trade

View attachment 835053

Almost right

Habs get the higher of the two unless the higher is in the top ten, in which case the Habs get the other pick.

Basically, Flames have a lot of incentive to finish bottom 10 next year.

 

[Scintillating10]

Feel free to roast away but curious what people think about the following:


Habs Receive:
Coronato
Holtz
NJD 2024 1st (11-15)

Devils Receive:
Markstrom (75% retained)

Flames Receive:
WPG 1st 2024
CGY 1st 2025 (they can commit to a rebuild with their pick back)
Ylonen

I understand at its core Holtz + a 1st for Markstrom is probably on the 'overpayment' side but getting a legit #1 goaltender for 2yrs @ 1.5m cap hit has a lot of unspoken value so I felt like it somewhat balanced it out.

I don't think the Holtz + mid 1st offer is enough to get Markstrom from CGY, nor do I think is a slightly retained Markstrom worth those assets - Habs come in as a broker to increase value for CGY and also eat more cap for NJD. They do it because it lets them move up 8-10 slots at the draft and add two more prospects that they can either flip for a bigger asset (Zegras?) or who fit the age group of the current core.
I'm
Coronato might be a guy the Flames don't want to move - not sure who makes sense value wise but the Habs will likely want similar value back in trading those picks.

So Habs retain on Markstom? Cornato not really a guy we want. Tell Flames to keep him and flip Holtz to Flames Zary to Montreal?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Almost right

Habs get the higher of the two unless the higher is in the top ten, in which case the Habs get the other pick.

Basically, Flames have a lot of incentive to finish bottom 10 next year.

I posted the conditions of the Tkachuk trade, not the Monahan trade. I was pointing out that Florida's pick is specifically top 10 protected

 

[Kielbasa]

I posted the conditions of the Tkachuk trade, not the Monahan trade. I was pointing out that Florida's pick is specifically top 10 protected

Woops, my bad

 

[Wayfarer13]

Retention has to occur with the player, the player, his contract and retention are a unit when traded, you can't slice and dice it the way you'd like.

The movement of the player and the retention spot occurs on July 1 as part of a larger deal done the day before.Future considerations can mean anything

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

At first glance, it feels like Montreal's only part of this because they get fantastic value and don't need to be involved.

This exactly. Markstrom for Holtz and a protected 25 1st for Marky. Leave MTL out of it. Also Habs are not going to get Calgarys 1st round pick next year. They will get Floridas which I hope is 32nd OV. So no wonder Habs fans are keen to trade it for value this year.

 

[Captain Mountain]

This exactly. Markstrom for Holtz and a protected 25 1st for Marky. Leave MTL out of it. Also Habs are not going to get Calgarys 1st round pick next year. They will get Floridas which I hope is 32nd OV. So no wonder Habs fans are keen to trade it for value this year.

Most Habs fans aren't keen on trading the pick, but keep willing it into existence, lol.

 

[Scintillating10]

I posted the conditions of the Tkachuk trade, not the Monahan trade. I was pointing out that Florida's pick is specifically top 10 protected

There's no chance of that though.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

There's no chance of that though.

That's the point. Florida is almost certainly going to be a playoff team next year, even if they are not they probably won't be a bottom 10 team. So Calgary is very likely to receive their 2025 1st. Meaning that if Calgary finishes with a top 10 pick next year (which is likely) then Montreal will receive Florida's 2025 1st

 

[Junohockeyfan]

That's the point. Florida is almost certainly going to be a playoff team next year, even if they are not they probably won't be a bottom 10 team. So Calgary is very likely to receive their 2025 1st. Meaning that if Calgary finishes with a top 10 pick next year (which is likely) then Montreal will receive Florida's 2025 1st

So if Cgy finishes 11th, what happens?

 

[FLAMESFAN]

So if Cgy finishes 11th, what happens?

This is what haunts me at night.....

 

[Junohockeyfan]

This is what haunts me at night.....

lol, does someone have that flowchart showing the conditions?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

So if Cgy finishes 11th, what happens?

Then Montreal gets Calgary's pick.

I'm willing to bet they don't though, especially if Marky is traded like in the OP's proposal. With the exception of Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, San Jose, and maybe St. louis, all the teams around Calgary in the standings this year will be actively taking steps to improve for next season. And unless Calgary does something moronic like signing another ~30 year old to a 10M deal they will not be improving by any substantial amount this offseason

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

lol, does someone have that flowchart showing the conditions?

Ill just go through it

Giroux trade
- Philly receives Florida's 2024 top 10 protected 1st, transfers to 2025 unprotected (unlikely)

Tkachuk trade
- Calgary receives Florida's 2025 top 10 protected 1st, Florida receives Calgary's 2025 4th

• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2024 and their 2025 1st is subsequently transferred to Philly then Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)
• If Florida drafts in the top 10 of 2025 Calgary receives Florida's 2026 1st and Florida instead receives Calgary's 2026 4th (unlikely)

Monahan trade
- Montreal receives the higher of Calgary's 2 2025 1sts at the time of the trade (Calgary's or Florida's, any other Calgary may acquire are unrelated) (likely)

• If Calgary's 2024 1st is in the 20-32 range of the draft Montreal has the option to select that pick instead (unlikely)
• If Calgary does not receive Florida's 2025 1st due to prior trade conditions then Montreal receives Calgary's 2025 1st unless its 1st OA, then it transfers to the higher of the 2 picks in 2026 (unlikely)
• If Calgary does receives Florida's 2025 1st but their own 1st is top 10 then Montreal receives Florida's 2025 1st (most likely scenario)