Speculation: NJ Appeal?

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

"New Jersey must now forfeit Schneider, Gelinas, Merrill, their next 5 first-round picks, Dinosaur BBQ, the big metal statue outside the Rock, Bryzgalov in net for more than 80% of games, andfans may no longer use escalators in the arena."

Nooooooo

Yea no.

 

[AfroThunder396]

The problem was that the original contract had two dummy years of $600K attached, or whatever the league minimum was at the time that contract was signed. The league ruled that it was an unrealistic expectation that minimum salary would remain the same for 17 years, and that if they accepted the contract there was the possibility that in 2026 or whatever than a player would be making under the minimum salary amount.

What bothers me is that those weasels at the NHLPA went directly to Bettman and made a shady deal where they would agree not to appeal the decision on the condition that the NHL would not challenge any more contracts for circumvention for the remainder of that CBA. Which led to the outrageous Ehrhoff, B. Richards, Weber, Parise, and Suter deals which were wildly more severe than Kovalchuk's.

 

[theking72]

"new jersey must now forfeit schneider, gelinas, merrill, their next 5 first-round picks, dinosaur bbq, the big metal statue outside the rock, utlilize bryzgalov in net for more than 80% of games, and fans may no longer use escalators in the arena."

nooooooo

for the love of god take whatever you want just leave dino bbq

 

[Loyal Lou]

for the love of god take whatever you want just leave dino bbq

Ehhhhh Dino BBQ is ok. Wasn't impressed...

Back on topic, the league is going to make an example of the Devils to prove that the stupid contract trend was the reason for the lockout. The league can easily justify (part of it at least) of the lockout because its started with Kovy. Any chance the league can take some heat off of them they will do it. The league has the Devils right where they want them. Why would they give that up even if Lou asks Gary ever so nicely.

 

[R8Devs]

Maybe if they get a first round pick in a trade they can negotiate with the league to forfeit that one. I know they have to forfeit their own but maybe the league may oblige to that notion.

 

[theking72]

Wishful thinking but nobody is going to help NJ.

I refer you to Bill Daly's statement after Kovy retired

When he became an unrestricted free agent after that season, they signed him to a 17-year, $102 million contract in July of 2010, only to be reprimanded by the NHL for circumventing the salary cap. As punishment, the league fined the Devils $3 million and took away third- and first-round draft picks.

As a result, the Devils do not have a first-round pick in the 2014 entry draft and they have no hope of getting the pick back.

“One (issue) is not related to the other,†Daly said of the league’s punishment and Kovalchuk’s retirement.

Source: http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/..._devils_in_shock_after_retiring_from_nhl.html

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

If the Devils are serious about this they need to file a lawsuit. The judge will tell them "we're not wasting our time. you have a CBA. Figure it out."

Arbitration Judge is assigned, both sides are heard, appeal is heard - decision is given.

I hope Lou is considering it as a fan.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Daly has no business in dealing in appeals - that lies with the board of governors. He can speak his opinion all he wants but even his comment here is talking about the retirement as it relates to the penalties, not the penalties themselves relating to the CBA.

If Lou is going to take action with an appeal, it will not be on the grounds of the retirement, it would be on the grounds of the original penalty was too harsh for the "crime".

The real issue in whether he can take action or not is if the new CBA wipes away the chance to appeal since the penalties and appeal process were under the old CBA. He may have had to take action before the old one expired.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Daly has no business in dealing in appeals - that lies with the board of governors. He can speak his opinion all he wants but even his comment here is talking about the retirement as it relates to the penalties, not the penalties themselves relating to the CBA.

If Lou is going to take action with an appeal, it will not be on the grounds of the retirement, it would be on the grounds of the original penalty was too harsh for the "crime".

The real issue in whether he can take action or not is if the new CBA wipes away the chance to appeal since the penalties and appeal process were under the old CBA. He may have had to take action before the old one expired.

From my understanding of BAs if there's a substantive issue in dispute and neither party agrees you go Court - Arbitration - Decision both sides have previously stipulated they will accept in lieu of formally going to real people court.

I imagine Lou can sue at any time right? Under the old CBA, new CBA it doesn't matter really.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I don't think he can file a suit at all. He has to go through the means availed to him via the CBA and league constitution. While there was a very distinct procedure to appeal penalties/fines/suspensions/etc. in the old one, I do not know if that language still exists or if it is the same process.

If he exhausted that process or was denied his "due process" within the league guidelines for some reason then possibly he could involve legal action but I highly doubt he would. Lou is very much a play by the rules guy and if the board slammed the door in his face I think he'd just move on.

The constitution also has bearing here beyond the CBA but the last time I read that thing I got a headache. It call out procedure for bringing agenda items up for special votes and raising issues like this I think. I think it takes 2/3rd or 3/4th majority vote to take action but I don't know if it even applies to appealing penalties against members. I'm not bothering to read it again or try to find the new one. I think the person that leaked the last one ended up in a ditch somewhere.

http://www.bizofhockey.com/docs/NHLConsitution.pdf

(actually it lists this as exhibits 1-2 at the bottom so it probably was obtained through a freedom of information petition as the league filed for unincorporated not-for-profit association status judging by the citation on wiki)

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I don't think he can file a suit at all. He has to go through the means availed to him via the CBA and league constitution. While there was a very distinct procedure to appeal penalties/fines/suspensions/etc. in the old one, I do not know if that language still exists or if it is the same process.

If he exhausted that process or was denied his "due process" within the league guidelines for some reason then possibly he could involve legal action but I highly doubt he would. Lou is very much a play by the rules guy and if the board slammed the door in his face I think he'd just move on.

The constitution also has bearing here beyond the CBA but the last time I read that thing I got a headache. It call out procedure for bringing agenda items up for special votes and raising issues like this I think. I think it takes 2/3rd or 3/4th majority vote to take action but I don't know if it even applies to appealing penalties against members. I'm not bothering to read it again or try to find the new one. I think the person that leaked the last one ended up in a ditch somewhere.

http://www.bizofhockey.com/docs/NHLConsitution.pdf

Thank you! I'm going to promise myself to read that.

 

[apice3*]

We should pull a fast one on the league and trade the pick to someone like NYR and then forfeit it.

 

[MrLouniverse]

Lemonade? Traffic tickets?

It was a ******** ruling but it's certainly not changing now.

 

[None Shall Pass]

They should let us use it on something ceremonial, like a sick kid or something.

 

[SeidoN]

They should let us use it on something ceremonial, like a sick kid or something.

It would be awkward when Larsson is still benched when the sick kid makes the roster

 

[Devils1029]

We already turned over the 3rd rounder and the $3 million bucks....I would see that as acceptance by the Devils of the punishment. If they tried to appeal now, one wold have to say why did you accept now and now want to appeal..if there was to be an appeal, it shoudl have been done right away. However, I think the league basically told Lou - don't try to show us up on this and we'll allow the 15 year deal, which was still a ******** deal that paid the guy $10 million bucks but only carried a $6.66 cap hit.

What irritates me is that we got penalized and the league used the Kovy deal to set guidelines on what is "acceptable" yet when he retired, we were still subject to cap reclaim penalty. While it's not much because he retired when he did, it could have been substantial. By the time Luongo or Hossa retire, the cap will be substantially higher and the value of that penalty would be fairly insigificant.

I want our pick back too, or at least have the penalty reduced to a 2nd rounder. Perhaps we could get an extension as when the league awarded us the draft, that essentially made it impossible to realistically forfeit our pick that year..(it happened to be 9th overall and we dealt it for Schneider anyway - but still - no team is forfeitting a pick when the draft is in their own building...of course, next year is McDavid's year.

 

[glenwo2]

Wishful thinking but nobody is going to help NJ.

I refer you to Bill Daly's statement after Kovy retired




Source: http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/..._devils_in_shock_after_retiring_from_nhl.html

Somebody already mentioned that this was before the Sens pulled the same crap.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

We already turned over the 3rd rounder and the $3 million bucks....I would see that as acceptance by the Devils of the punishment. If they tried to appeal now, one wold have to say why did you accept now and now want to appeal..if there was to be an appeal, it shoudl have been done right away. However, I think the league basically told Lou - don't try to show us up on this and we'll allow the 15 year deal, which was still a ******** deal that paid the guy $10 million bucks but only carried a $6.66 cap hit.

What irritates me is that we got penalized and the league used the Kovy deal to set guidelines on what is "acceptable" yet when he retired, we were still subject to cap reclaim penalty. While it's not much because he retired when he did, it could have been substantial. By the time Luongo or Hossa retire, the cap will be substantially higher and the value of that penalty would be fairly insigificant.

I want our pick back too, or at least have the penalty reduced to a 2nd rounder. Perhaps we could get an extension as when the league awarded us the draft, that essentially made it impossible to realistically forfeit our pick that year..(it happened to be 9th overall and we dealt it for Schneider anyway - but still - no team is forfeitting a pick when the draft is in their own building...of course, next year is McDavid's year.

That's a really good point. If you don't appeal all the penalty and wait for just the last part to go into effect it really doesn't ring valid. Never thought of it that way. Makes me think Lou won't do anything at this pont.

 

[Jossipov]

We should pull a fast one on the league and trade the pick to someone like NYR and then forfeit it.

I wish Kovy could have been cool and let us trade him to the Rangers....and then retire.

 

[GeNeXt]

Rather than petitioning for a new goal song, why don't we petition to get our 1st rounder back?

Our strengths towards having penalty revoked: 1. new ownership 2.Kovy retiring 3. new CBA 4. multiple offenders of the CBA league wide (Pronger, Alfredsson, Franzen, Hossa, etc.), 5. Lou going senile

 

[Loyal Lou]

Rather than petitioning for a new goal song, why don't we petition to get our 1st rounder back?

Our strengths towards having penalty revoked: 1. new ownership 2.Kovy retiring 3. new CBA 4. multiple offenders of the CBA league wide (Pronger, Alfredsson, Franzen, Hossa, etc.), 5. Lou going senile

I mean it could be possible considering circumstances are different now then they were when Kovalchuk signed as you pointed out above. I never really thought about that. Maybe the Devils could make the point that losing the pick could hurt the team financially especially if they get a top 5 pick.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Ehhhhh Dino BBQ is ok. Wasn't impressed...

You bite your ****ing tongue.

 

[MartyOwns]

That's a really good point. If you don't appeal all the penalty and wait for just the last part to go into effect it really doesn't ring valid. Never thought of it that way. Makes me think Lou won't do anything at this pont.

can either one of you explain this a bit? im not getting it (shock)

 

[Loyal Lou]

You bite your ****ing tongue.

I'm more of an Edison Ale House guy. Pitcher of Guinness for $18. I'm in!

 

[Richer's Ghost]

can either one of you explain this a bit? im not getting it (shock)

the punishment the NHL levied on the Devils Monday stemming from the league's rejection of his original 17-year, $102 million contract -- the $3 million fine and the loss of a third-round draft pick this year and a first-rounder in one of the next four seasons.

The total penalties had several parts,

-$3 million fine (already paid we assume)
-3rd round draft pick (already forfeited in 2010)
-1st round draft pick (any of 4 years - Devils choice, yet to be forfeited)

The first 2 have already taken place without an appeal. To appeal the 3rd and final portion of the penalties wouldn't make sense because if you don't agree with the penalty in whole, you should appeal it in it's entirety prior to the first element going into effect, not just the final element at the 11th hour.