Speculation: NJ Appeal?

[Lou is God]

Who's arguing? I just don't think people realize the motivation behind the penalty. (Judging by your "it wasn't fair" comment that includes you too but I'm not referring to you specifically. I just happened to reply to a portion of your post.)

In general the impression I get from this thread is "oh man, no fair!" Well, it's actually a pretty fair punishment. The Senators weren't warned. The league didn't know. The Devils were warned. The league was aware of the contract. Lou said, **** you.

No, it wasn't fair, taking a 3rd pick was fair but taking a 1st was overkill.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I still have a feeling that SOMETHING happens with the pick. The penalty gets changed to a lesser round (2nd), gets pushed back a year or two, etc.

Not saying I expect it but I just have a feeling.

Same here. Obviously it was on Lou to forfeit the '12 pick, but I feel like he has something up his sleeve.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

No, it wasn't fair, taking a 3rd pick was fair but taking a 1st was overkill.

Didn't the league fine us 5 million dollars too? Such BS

 

[Lou is God]

Didn't the league fine us 5 million dollars too? Such BS

I thought it was $3M but yeah its all BS.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

I thought it was $3M but yeah its all BS.

You're probably right, I just remember a fine being part of it.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

it was 3M

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

Hossa will be 35 in a couple of months, still has 8 years left on his contract... Gotta love the hypocrites running the NHL. Punishing a smaller market team over the likes of: CHI, VAN, DET, MIN, PHI, etc.

 

[GameSeven]

I thought it was $3M but yeah its all BS.

Which, incidentally, is essentially equal to the "cap benefit" we gained from the three year deal.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Hossa will be 35 in a couple of months, still has 8 years left on his contract... Gotta love the hypocrites running the NHL. Punishing a smaller market team over the likes of: CHI, VAN, DET, MIN, PHI, etc.

I agree that the league should have came down on these types of contracts a lot earlier than they did. But guys that Kovy contract was GOD awful. It was really really bad.

The penalties are punishment for the 17-year, $102 million contract signed by Kovalchuk on July 19 despite a warning from the league that the deal would be rejected. Arbitrator Richard I. Bloch upheld the league’s rejection in an Aug. 9 ruling after the NHL Players’ Association had filed a grievance on the Russian’s behalf.

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2010/09/devils_fined_3_million_lose_tw.html

Again, to reiterate, the league warned Lou. It's like a copy pulling you over when you're going 90 mph in a 45 and saying "buddy, please, don't want to ruin your life here with this ticket. slow down." Then you turn around and go 90 mph RIGHT in front of the cop.

It was a SEVENTEEN year deal. The cap hit would have been less than 6. It was awful and Lou should have backed off after he was warned. The punishment was warranted, quite frankly, and the Devils are lucky they didn't get charged multiple first round picks.

No, it's not fair that other teams got away with similar deals. But understand the climate of the league during that time (talk of the new CBA doing away with these deals), the warning, and how much MORE ridiculous this contract was than any other in the NHL.

 

[Lou is God]

Yeah man, we know they warned Lou, you don't have to add that in every post like no one is aware of it and taking away multiple picks would have been a travesty reaped on top of BS.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Yeah man, we know they warned Lou, you don't have to add that in every post like no one is aware of it and taking away multiple picks would have been a travesty reaped on top of BS.

Then why are we sitting here crying travesty? Sure seems like no one is aware that Lou didn't get pulled over and warned. He should have backed off. He thought he was above the league, above punishment, and lost a pick because of it. This isn't on anyone but Lou. He's the one who ignored the warning. He's the one who didn't give up number 29.

This isn't a travesty. That 17 year contract at less than 6 million AAV was a travesty. The structuring of that contract, paying him the minimum for like 6 years was a travesty. It was very boldly saying "**** you" to the league, "**** you" to CBA negotiations, and "**** you" to anyone who dared question Lou period.

We deserved the penalty and quite frankly deserved more than what the league gave us. When an authority tells you "please, stop speeding." You stop speeding. And if you don't, and you get pulled over, you deserve the massive tickets and the massive kick in the nuts that you're going to get for not only violating the rule, but ignoring the warning.

 

[Devils Trap]

Really ??? Its obviously a travesty

Hossa is turning 35 in 3 months and has 8 more years on his deal .......
Alfie literally came out and said he had zero intentions of finishing out his contract

But what we did was bad ??? We most certainly do not deserve a penalty that harsh. A penalty would be fine, but a 1st, 3rd and 3 million ?? Thats a joke

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

If the league had such a problem with it, they wouldn't have let that loophole exist for as long as it did. CBA be damned.

 

[Lou is God]

Then why are we sitting here crying travesty? Sure seems like no one is aware that Lou didn't get pulled over and warned. He should have backed off. He thought he was above the league, above punishment, and lost a pick because of it. This isn't on anyone but Lou. He's the one who ignored the warning. He's the one who didn't give up number 29.

This isn't a travesty. That 17 year contract at less than 6 million AAV was a travesty. The structuring of that contract, paying him the minimum for like 6 years was a travesty. It was very boldly saying "**** you" to the league, "**** you" to CBA negotiations, and "**** you" to anyone who dared question Lou period.

We deserved the penalty and quite frankly deserved more than what the league gave us. When an authority tells you "please, stop speeding." You stop speeding. And if you don't, and you get pulled over, you deserve the massive tickets and the massive kick in the nuts that you're going to get for not only violating the rule, but ignoring the warning.

The contract was a joke but it broke no rules, Bettman and the league screwed up for not putting in better rules in the CBA that THEY negotiated on what the contracts can and cannot be, them warning Lou is irrelevant, if he wants to make a trade that fits in the guidelines of the league but the league in their pettiness tell him not to, you telling me he should listen to them and not do what is best for the team?

The fine was BS because it was a petty act by a slimy Bettman who was trying to cover up for the lousy job he did in negotiating the CBA that left in tons of loopholes for these type of contracts.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Bloch also stated in his report he found no intent by NJ of circumvention. Funny how these things don't exactly line up with comments by the League and the penalties imposed.

Bloch's ruling basically came down to he could not find any reason not to uphold the league's decision that the contract could be voided and thus he denied the grievance filed. He did not actually rule on whether it should have been voided in light of other contracts at the time. Nuance, but an important consideration when looking at the entire debacle and it's fallout.

Nothing in this Opinion should be read as suggesting that either the Club or Mr. Kovalchuk operated in bad faith or on the basis of any assumption other than that the SPC was fully compliant with the CBA. While intent is specifically listed as a potentially relevant factor in a proceeding such as this, the System Arbitrator here concludes the SPC terms themselves demonstrate this agreement“has the effect of defeating” the provisions of the CBA, with particular reference to the Team Payroll Range language. For these reasons, the finding is that the League has sustained its burden of demonstrating its actions in rejecting the agreement were in accordance with the bargained authority under Section 11.6(a)(i). Accordingly, the grievance protesting that action will be denied.
AWARD
The grievance is denied.

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/10/1614815/arbitration-ruling-ilya-kovalchuk-full-document

 

[Devils Trap]

The contract was a joke but it broke no rules, Bettman and the league screwed up for not putting in better rules in the CBA that THEY negotiated on what the contracts can and cannot be, them warning Lou is irrelevant, if he wants to make a trade that fits in the guidelines of the league but the league in their pettiness tell him not to, you telling me he should listen to them and not do what is best for the team?

The fine was BS because it was a petty act by a slimy Bettman who was trying to cover up for the lousy job he did in negotiating the CBA that left in tons of loopholes for these type of contracts.

Yep basically we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fans had Bettman under heavy scrutiny for those long contracts and we just happened to come up, so we were used as an example to the rest of the league

Of course it didnt matter, because NYR did it next summer and Minny just went and did it the summer after (To a lesser extent,but did it regardless)

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

Yep basically we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fans had Bettman under heavy scrutiny for those long contracts and we just happened to come up, so we were used as an example to the rest of the league

Of course it didnt matter, because Minny just went and did it net summer (To a lesser extent,but did it regardless)

After tampering with Zach. He ****ing knew way before hand what was on the table in Minny. Russo couldn't keep his big mouth shut.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Really ??? Its obviously a travesty

Hossa is turning 35 in 3 months and has 8 more years on his deal .......
Alfie literally came out and said he had zero intentions of finishing out his contract

But what we did was bad ??? We most certainly do not deserve a penalty that harsh. A penalty would be fine, but a 1st, 3rd and 3 million ?? Thats a joke

Again you're ignoring the distinction here. It's important to consider a few things: the league's climate (CBA negotiations), how much worse Kovy's contract was than the other 2 (the AAV, the payouts, the years), and most importantly the warning (beats dead horse).

Should the league have cracked down on all of this earlier? Yes. But that doesn't excuse what Lou did. When a cop pulls you over you can't say "well you missed 2 or 3 other cars going 100 mph." Tough luck. He didn't see them or care to stop them. he stopped you. If he lets you go ON A WARNING because other cars were speeding too, you don't speed right in front of him again!

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

Bloch also stated in his report he found no intent by NJ of circumvention. Funny how these things don't exactly line up with comments by the League and the penalties imposed.

Bloch's ruling basically came down to he could not find any reason not to uphold the league's decision that the contract could be voided and thus he denied the grievance filed. He did not actually rule on whether it should have been voided in light of other contracts at the time. Nuance, but an important consideration when looking at the entire debacle and it's fallout.



http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/10/1614815/arbitration-ruling-ilya-kovalchuk-full-document

This is exactly why Lou needs to do something to make a case for reinstating our 1st.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Bloch also stated in his report he found no intent by NJ of circumvention. Funny how these things don't exactly line up with comments by the League and the penalties imposed.

Bloch's ruling basically came down to he could not find any reason not to uphold the league's decision that the contract could be voided and thus he denied the grievance filed. He did not actually rule on whether it should have been voided in light of other contracts at the time. Nuance, but an important consideration when looking at the entire debacle and it's fallout.

http://www.sbnation.com/2010/8/10/1614815/arbitration-ruling-ilya-kovalchuk-full-document

Well the league's burden wasn't to show there was any intent of circumvention. And, mind you, Bloch was very careful in his wording. He didn't say that NJ circumventing intentionall or not. He said "don't take this to mean I think NJ circumvented." He doesn't really offer an opinion.

Yes the rule cited was BS. Yes you're all right in that regard. And if the league didn't warn Lou I would be right there with you.

However that warning changes everything for me. The fact that other people break rules and don't get caught doesn't excuse the Devils.

 

[Devils Trap]

Again you're ignoring the distinction here. It's important to consider a few things: the league's climate (CBA negotiations), how much worse Kovy's contract was than the other 2 (the AAV, the payouts, the years), and most importantly the warning (beats dead horse).

Should the league have cracked down on all of this earlier? Yes. But that doesn't excuse what Lou did. When a cop pulls you over you can't say "well you missed 2 or 3 other cards going 100 mph." Tough luck. He didn't see them or care to stop them. he stopped you. If he lets you go ON A WARNING because other cars were speeding to, you don't speed right in front of him again!

Our punishment had nothing to with how long it was, their argument was Kovy would never play out that contract because it was going to end when he was 44 ... Hossa's current deal wont end until he is 43, what exactly is the difference ? (Other then 1 year)

 

[Lou is God]

Our punishment had nothing to with how long it was, their argument was Kovy would never play out that contract because it was going to end when he was 44 ... Hossa's current deal wont end until he is 43, what exactly is the difference ? (Other then 1 year)

The warning!!

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Kovy's fault - he wanted the 2 extra years to make it the magic number 17 that broke the back.

Had they filed the revised contract for 15 years originally it would have gone through like the others.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Our punishment had nothing to with how long it was, their argument was Kovy would never play out that contract because it was going to end when he was 44 ... Hossa's current deal wont end until he is 43, what exactly is the difference ? (Other then 1 year)

How long it was coincides with the age he would be when he retired.

And again you're comparing apples to oranges because, as the poster above me so sarcastically dismisses, the warning wasn't given in respect to that Hossa deal. Without the warning I agree with all of you. That's the difference here.

That and the CBA negotiations.

 

[Devils Trap]

The whole "Warning" is BS. You are warning us to stop doing something that is no where stated in the rulebooks. Thats why your speeding example is bad. Its clearly in the rules that you cannot go over X in mph .

A better example would be a cop warning you to slow down for your own safety,(while you are in regulation of the speed limit) but no where in the rules does it say you have to.