Niagara IceDogs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread

[Dog Fan]

Well, here is an aspect of what's going on that you may not know. Last night the arena closed one of the concession stands (just happened to be the one right at the top of the stairs from our seats) because of lack of attendance. We go up after each period to grab a beer and discuss the play in the period and solve the world's problems. Another nail in the coffin of a potentially great franchise. #SELLTHETEAM

 

[bobber]

A lot of barns in the OHL look empty on the tube. I think the economy has a lot to do with franchises struggling the last few seasons. The Dogs aren't the only one. The Ice Dogs have other issues to deal with as do a few other franchises. People have to decide what their priorities are these days. Hockey games may not come first. Not sure what the average attendance is but it has to be down over all in the OHL.

 

[Smithsy]

https://x.com/JeffMarek/status/1723039313774960725?s=20

 

[DWI Dale]

https://x.com/JeffMarek/status/1723039313774960725?s=20

talk about getting thrown under the bus...

 

[three dog night]

Can the owner fire himself.

 

[Section5Petes]

Can the owner fire himself.

His ego wont let him...

 

[three dog night]

OHL 2023-24 team attendance at hockeydb.com

Attendance for the Ontario Hockey League for the 2023-24 season

www.hockeydb.com

 

[Krangers08]

Niagara is the new flint I

 

[Petes1987]

A lot of barns in the OHL look empty on the tube. I think the economy has a lot to do with franchises struggling the last few seasons. The Dogs aren't the only one. The Ice Dogs have other issues to deal with as do a few other franchises. People have to decide what their priorities are these days. Hockey games may not come first. Not sure what the average attendance is but it has to be down over all in the OHL.

In Peterborough the Petes are drawing large crowds. They have had several sellout crowds this season. The Peterborough Memorial Centre only holds a little more over 4,000 people when the ice is use. Their average attendance is around 3,700 to 3,800 fans a game.

 

[OMG67]

Very surprised Kawabata has been fired, especially this early. I know the Dogs haven’t been great but they’ve been more respectable that I thought they’d be.

They really need to figure out what they are and find a direction. If you are somewhat rebuilding or in a full rebuild then decide on the right coach for the job and give them enough time to work at it.

Firing Kawabata now is a result of either:
1> A personality conflict
or
2> Lack of performance
or
3> Player revolt

First, I doubt it would be a player revolt, especially in less than a season. If it is a lack of performance, what does the management expect from a rebuilding team in the standings?

I think it is #1. I think they may be in a situation internally like we saw with the Senators. An overbearing owner that lacks proper experience and wisdom is overpowering the hockey operations team that should have the experience and autonomy to work their positions.

 

[Dog Fan]

#SELLTHETEAM

 

[Petes1987]

Very surprised Kawabata has been fired, especially this early. I know the Dogs haven’t been great but they’ve been more respectable that I thought they’d be.

They really need to figure out what they are and find a direction. If you are somewhat rebuilding or in a full rebuild then decide on the right coach for the job and give them enough time to work at it.

Firing Kawabata now is a result of either:
1> A personality conflict
or
2> Lack of performance
or
3> Player revolt

First, I doubt it would be a player revolt, especially in less than a season. If it is a lack of performance, what does the management expect from a rebuilding team in the standings?

I think it is #1. I think they may be in a situation internally like we saw with the Senators. An overbearing owner that lacks proper experience and wisdom is overpowering the hockey operations team that should have the experience and autonomy to work their positions.

They should have kept Jody Hull as coach. He turned the Peterborough Petes around when he took over as head coach. I think he would have been the right coach for a rebuilding team.

 

[Section5Petes]

They should have kept Jody Hull as coach. He turned the Peterborough Petes around when he took over as head coach. I think he would have been the right coach for a rebuilding team.

Jody definitely did some good for the Petes, but Rob Wilson is truly the one who deserves the credit for putting this organization back on the map as a desired destination for players. And that couldn't have happened if Jody didn't get fired

 

[Dog Fan]

What a F>>>ING mess! KUWABARA had the kids playing a competitive brand of hockey but DD has no discipline. He has made many trades to satiate his need for immediate gratification. Can't he sell the team and become a season ticket holder. #SELLTHETEAM

 

[dirty12]

Very surprised Kawabata has been fired, especially this early. I know the Dogs haven’t been great but they’ve been more respectable that I thought they’d be.

They really need to figure out what they are and find a direction. If you are somewhat rebuilding or in a full rebuild then decide on the right coach for the job and give them enough time to work at it.

Firing Kawabata now is a result of either:
1> A personality conflict
or
2> Lack of performance
or
3> Player revolt

First, I doubt it would be a player revolt, especially in less than a season. If it is a lack of performance, what does the management expect from a rebuilding team in the standings?

I think it is #1. I think they may be in a situation internally like we saw with the Senators. An overbearing owner that lacks proper experience and wisdom is overpowering the hockey operations team that should have the experience and autonomy to work their positions.

4> lack of results. That team should not be #20.

While the re-construction may take 2-3 years, that roster is much, much better than the one purchased. It is now a team deep with decent talent and a few potential stars that plays hard to the final buzzer

 

[Petes1987]

Jody definitely did some good for the Petes, but Rob Wilson is truly the one who deserves the credit for putting this organization back on the map as a desired destination for players. And that couldn't have happened if Jody didn't get fired

I agree that Rob is mostly responsible for the complete turn around. He is the best coach we have had since Dick Todd. He was able to take us to another that Jody could not but Hull deserves credit for taking a team that had fallen on times because of previous managements’s mistakes and turning the Petes into a competitive team.

 

[OMG67]

4> lack of results. That team should not be #20.

While the re-construction may take 2-3 years, that roster is much, much better than the one purchased. It is now a team deep with decent talent and a few potential stars that plays hard to the final buzzer

Sorry, Dirty but that is a ridiculous take.

The management of that team need to instill some consistency and allow the coach to build the chemistry and culture. This merry-go-round is not beneficial for Niagara at all. This is now their 4th coach in just slightly over one year. It cannot be the coaches fault all the time. At some point they need to look at their hiring practises if it is the coaches fault. If they are hiring trash coaches, you have to look at the person hiring.

The team right now is #20. But, what is the honest placing for that team? It sure as hell is not in the playoffs. That is not a playoff team. What is the difference between 20th at the end of the season 8 points behind 17th? Almost meaningless. I could understand if the expectation was to be a middle of the pack team but we are still comparing heir performance to a non-playoff team. Non-playoff teams go through bad streaks. They needed a full season or at the bare minimum through the deadline and give the guy a chance.

 

[dirty12]

Sorry, Dirty but that is a ridiculous take.

The management of that team need to instill some consistency and allow the coach to build the chemistry and culture. This merry-go-round is not beneficial for Niagara at all. This is now their 4th coach in just slightly over one year. It cannot be the coaches fault all the time. At some point they need to look at their hiring practises if it is the coaches fault. If they are hiring trash coaches, you have to look at the person hiring.

The team right now is #20. But, what is the honest placing for that team? It sure as hell is not in the playoffs. That is not a playoff team. What is the difference between 20th at the end of the season 8 points behind 17th? Almost meaningless. I could understand if the expectation was to be a middle of the pack team but we are still comparing heir performance to a non-playoff team. Non-playoff teams go through bad streaks. They needed a full season or at the bare minimum through the deadline and give the guy a chance.

OMG man, at least try to consider some of the current reality. The IceDogs hired a local that was 40 games over 0.500 with a championship over four seasons as a head coach in the east coast hockey league; then, brought in his former NHL coach father to consult. How much time did you think the coach with the skimpy resume had to prove he was capable of coaching a much, much improved roster?

 

[Millpond]

I really feel for the loyal fans in Niagara.

It must be hard cheering for a group in constant flux.
Hope for better days ahead for you .

 

[three dog night]

Brantford 5 Niagara 3 zero for one under the new coach Xheaj scored twice for Brantford in the win. Humphrey got his 100 point in his career scoring the First Icedog goal.. 3,1333 in Brantford .

 

[OMG67]

OMG man, at least try to consider some of the current reality. The IceDogs hired a local that was 40 games over 0.500 with a championship over four seasons as a head coach in the east coast hockey league; then, brought in his former NHL coach father to consult. How much time did you think the coach with the skimpy resume had to prove he was capable of coaching a much, much improved roster?

I’m not suggesting the coach there now is a bad option. But, if that is or was the plan, then do it in the offseason like a professional and then offer Kawabata a seat somewhere else in the organization or at least see if he can land somewhere else. It is not like this option wasn’t available in the summer.

Everything this organization has done since day one has been a gong show and that filters down throughout the organization. So, IF this “plan” doesn’t work and they remain at or near the bottom of the league, then what? Do the Boudreault’s leave? Then where are they other than 5 coaches deep and floundering?

Is this the point where they make a commitment to hockey operations or will there still be a clown show meddling in the hockey ops Where CLEARLY he isn’t capable bBased on demonstrated performance to date.

A lot of times talent on paper doesn’t translate because of the disarray of the organization. This is that case right now. I like Bruce Boudreault BUT there is a big difference between running an NHL organization and an OHL organization. I can’t count how many times NHL type guys come to the OHL and get absolutely demo’d because it is a different structure and culture. This situation is by no means a guarantee. His kid has some experience but not a lot more than Kuwabara. At least RK had OHL experience, both playing and coaching.

Admittedly, likely a step in the right direction IF YOU ONLY look at it in a vacuum. Once you throw the DD grenade into the mix, who the hell knows how this will turn out….

 

[Dog Fan]

I’m not suggesting the coach there now is a bad option. But, if that is or was the plan, then do it in the offseason like a professional and then offer Kawabata a seat somewhere else in the organization or at least see if he can land somewhere else. It is not like this option wasn’t available in the summer.

Everything this organization has done since day one has been a gong show and that filters down throughout the organization. So, IF this “plan” doesn’t work and they remain at or near the bottom of the league, then what? Do the Boudreault’s leave? Then where are they other than 5 coaches deep and floundering?

Is this the point where they make a commitment to hockey operations or will there still be a clown show meddling in the hockey ops Where CLEARLY he isn’t capable bBased on demonstrated performance to date.

A lot of times talent on paper doesn’t translate because of the disarray of the organization. This is that case right now. I like Bruce Boudreault BUT there is a big difference between running an NHL organization and an OHL organization. I can’t count how many times NHL type guys come to the OHL and get absolutely demo’d because it is a different structure and culture. This situation is by no means a guarantee. His kid has some experience but not a lot more than Kuwabara. At least RK had OHL experience, both playing and coaching.

Admittedly, likely a step in the right direction IF YOU ONLY look at it in a vacuum. Once you throw the DD grenade into the mix, who the hell knows how this will turn out….

I enjoyed reading your take. Bruce Boudreau has experience in the ECHL, AHL and NHL. He is now getting experience as a consultant in the OHL. There have been rumours circulating that he will buy the team with a group in the future...hopefully the near future. #SELLTHETEAM

 

[dirty12]

I’m not suggesting the coach there now is a bad option. But, if that is or was the plan, then do it in the offseason like a professional and then offer Kawabata a seat somewhere else in the organization or at least see if he can land somewhere else. It is not like this option wasn’t available in the summer.

Flache (Flint), Rumble (OS), Boudreau (Niagara) …all off-season hires to help out or eventually replace coaches failing to deliver.

DeGray is unprofessional?

Everything this organization has done since day one has been a gong show and that filters down throughout the organization. So, IF this “plan” doesn’t work and they remain at or near the bottom of the league, then what? Do the Boudreault’s leave? Then where are they other than 5 coaches deep and floundering?

Is this the point where they make a commitment to hockey operations or will there still be a clown show meddling in the hockey ops Where CLEARLY he isn’t capable bBased on demonstrated performance to date.

A lot of times talent on paper doesn’t translate because of the disarray of the organization. This is that case right now. I like Bruce Boudreault BUT there is a big difference between running an NHL organization and an OHL organization. I can’t count how many times NHL type guys come to the OHL and get absolutely demo’d because it is a different structure and culture. This situation is by no means a guarantee. His kid has some experience but not a lot more than Kuwabara. At least RK had OHL experience, both playing and coaching.

Admittedly, likely a step in the right direction IF YOU ONLY look at it in a vacuum. Once you throw the DD grenade into the mix, who the hell knows how this will turn out….

 

[OMG67]

Flache (Flint), Rumble (OS), Boudreau (Niagara) …all off-season hires to help out or eventually replace coaches failing to deliver.

DeGray is unprofessional?

Again, I am not sold on Ben Boudreau being a significant step above RK. He may prove to be. He has a strong track record in a short period in the ECHL. RK has experience as an assistant at the OHL level as well as a player under Kilrea. I will concede he didn’t have head coaching experience and BB does Which is why I am tempering my criticism and directing to more towards the revolving door approach in Niagara more so than to who is taking over the bench.

I’m not sure where the DeGray comment is coming from. You will need to explain that one.
Unless you are suggesting that firing Walters after over 140 OHL games is equatable to firing Kuwabara after 40ish games? Additionally, Owen Sound isn’t on their 4th coach in 84 games….. So, please tell me you didn’t mention DeGray firing Walters as equatable to DD firing Kuwabara And suggesting that if I find the /niagara situation unprofessional then I MUST find the OS situation also unprofessional.

 

[dirty12]

Again, I am not sold on Ben Boudreau being a significant step above RK. He may prove to be. He has a strong track record in a short period in the ECHL. RK has experience as an assistant at the OHL level as well as a player under Kilrea. I will concede he didn’t have head coaching experience and BB does Which is why I am tempering my criticism and directing to more towards the revolving door approach in Niagara more so than to who is taking over the bench.

I’m not sure where the DeGray comment is coming from. You will need to explain that one.
Unless you are suggesting that firing Walters after over 140 OHL games is equatable to firing Kuwabara after 40ish games? Additionally, Owen Sound isn’t on their 4th coach in 84 games….. So, please tell me you didn’t mention DeGray firing Walters as equatable to DD firing Kuwabara And suggesting that if I find the /niagara situation unprofessional then I MUST find the OS situation also unprofessional.

You suggested hiring good help off-season while there is good help to be had, then replacing the failing coach with the new hire at the 1/4 pole as unprofessional.
That is what Flint & OS did, just sooner than Niagara.

It does not matter if you’re not sold on Boudreau, what mattered was Niagara replacing a coach it viewed as failing ASAP. Niagara cannot afford to allow another season to spiral out of control.