NHL.com writers vote the Norris trophy

[Oak]

Yes, his career 31 points in 30 playoff games are definitely the reason the Rangers haven’t won the cup yet

Definitely has nothing to do with panarin disappearing

Yes Panarin is definitely casper the ghost but so are a few others recently, zibs, etc.

Does Fox put up points? Yes we all know that he can. My problem is that Fox cant play in his own zone when PLAYOFF hockey starts. Hence why my first post said Fox should never be in a thread with Cale Makar because he is nowhere close to the caliber of defenseman that Cale is.

Do you have statistics to back up that Hughes doesn't play against top competition?

Also playing on the PK doesn't really mean shit except that it's a coach's decision. I'm sure Hughes can be a decent penalty killer but apparently the coach has decided it's too risky to play your best defenseman on the PK. Whether it before for the risk of injuries or just managing total minutes played. Makar didn't play many minutes on the PK at one point too. I agreed with it at the time and simultaneously still thought of him as the best defenseman in the world.

Look them up they're not hard to find. Regardless if coaches decision or not, sheltering or not, he doesn't do it. Yes he is an offensive phenom but nowhere the complete defenseman that Cale is.

I need to see more than power play assists, or skating zone entries to say you are the best defenseman in the world and that is who the Norris should go to.

 

[Nucker101]

I agree, I don't think adding a few secondary awards would be a bad thing. Recognize more players for what they do great instead of fewer.

Also IDK about Vancouver, but for the Avs, Makar is definitely the one on the ice for the most crucial defensive situations near end of games for example. Toews-Makar is our best pairing, defensively speaking. I think Bednar would play them 60 minutes a game if he could do it without killing them

According to PuckIQ.com, Both the Avs and Canucks use their top pairings against top lines most of the time.

Hughes-Hronek average 14.5 mins at 5v5 per game(8th highest), Toews-Makar average 13 mins at 5v5 per game(19th highest) according to NaturalStatTrick.com

 

[Avs44]

Hughes has levelled up ever since the new coaching staff came in. He's the star that stirks the drink in Vancouver.

I've liked Makar's game more in years past than this year, still an elite player for sure, but he's looked more dominant as an all-around player in previous years imo, meanwhile MacKinnon is playing as well as I've ever seen him play during the regular season, just a dominant player who can take over a game seemingly at will.

I agree with others that Fox gets overlooked due to his playstyle, ditto with Heiskanen. 2 guys who don't have much flash in their game, but consistently control the game and tilt the ice despite playing against top lines.

Good take. Makar has absolutely been better before; Hughes has been great this year. Still a close Norris race IMO, but Makar is just a bit off this year. I believe he's been playing through an injury of some sort the entire season which the Avs/Makar hoped would heal while avoiding surgery -- but I wouldn't be surprised if he undergoes said needed surgery this offseason. Makar apparently got hurt last year but came into training camp back in September still injured:

 

[Rowlet]

Except he never touches the PK or plays against top pairing forwards. Quinn will never match Cale Makar it doesn't matter how many assists he gets on the PP.

Makar has more powerplay points than Hughes does...

Also you might want to check out Makar's stats when MacKinnon isn't on the ice...

 

[Machinehead]

Sorry can't hear you, I'm too busy remembering him getting abused in his own zone by NJ last playoffs. Remember more of the same in 2022. Cute regular season snippet though. He's so speshul.

That play was Kreider's fault.

Fox has been fantastic in the playoffs.

 

[HFpapi]

I'd have no issue with Quinn winning (I'm on record as saying he should be top 5 in Hart) so this isn't commentary on that but in general it's crazy how much the Norris is just the Art Ross for Dmen. No other thought goes into it.

Wish voters had to release a blurb with a detailed reason why they voted each guy 1-5 and how many games they watched of each.

 

[Rowlet]

I'd have no issue with Quinn winning (I'm on record as saying he should be top 5 in Hart) so this isn't commentary on that but in general it's crazy how much the Norris is just the Art Ross for Dmen. No other thought goes into it.

Wish voters had to release a blurb with a detailed reason why they voted each guy 1-5 and how many games they watched of each.

Only once has the highest scoring Dman won the Norris since Burns in the 2016 season.

Also, Hughes has 18.6 corsiRel, Makar is only 4.

 

[Regal]

Only once has the highest scoring Dman won the Norris since Burns in the 2016 season.

Also, Hughes has 18.6 corsiRel, Makar is only 4.

They’re almost always top 3 though. And this top 5 is just the top 5 highest scoring defensemen, despite Hedman no longer being the defensive player he used to be, and Dobson and Josi not as good defensively as some players not that much lower on the scoring list. Not that production isn’t important, but the poster is right that there usually isn’t a ton of nuance to the voting.

 

[Regal]

Yes Panarin is definitely casper the ghost but so are a few others recently, zibs, etc.

Does Fox put up points? Yes we all know that he can. My problem is that Fox cant play in his own zone when PLAYOFF hockey starts. Hence why my first post said Fox should never be in a thread with Cale Makar because he is nowhere close to the caliber of defenseman that Cale is.


Look them up they're not hard to find. Regardless if coaches decision or not, sheltering or not, he doesn't do it. Yes he is an offensive phenom but nowhere the complete defenseman that Cale is.

I need to see more than power play assists, or skating zone entries to say you are the best defenseman in the world and that is who the Norris should go to.

Ok, I looked it up to see Quinn’s pairing lead the team in both minutes against elite competition and percentage of their minutes against elite competition. Now what?

 

[Raistlin]

Its up to the coach to utilize his players. Hughes generally dominates 5v5 and is of course good in PP. No one bemoans that he is not playing PK, he already plays ~24 mins a night. Tocchet likes to have his D block lanes on the PK, seeing how crucial QH is for the teams offense, it makes no sense to put him out there down a man. As another mentioned, he is leagues ahead of others in terms of puck on stick time. You want him with possession, and he is the best at keeping puck possession for you. If you ask him to chase ppl around while they play catch, you are not doing your job.

 

[HFpapi]

Only once has the highest scoring Dman won the Norris since Burns in the 2016 season.

Also, Hughes has 18.6 corsiRel, Makar is only 4.

OK fine but...

Scoring position for Dmen among Norris winners:

2023: 1st
2022: 2nd
2021: 2nd
2020: 2nd
2019: 2nd
2018: 5th
2017: 1st
2016: 10
2015: 1st
2014: 2nd
2013: 1st
2012: 1st
2011: 2nd
2010: 2nd
2009: 12
2008: 1st
2007: 5th
2006: 1st
2004: 3rd
2003: 3rd
2002: 2nd
2001: 2nd
2000: 2nd
1999: 1st

20/24 top 3.

18/24 top 2.

It's not quite the Art Ross for dmen but it's almost the Art Ross for dmen.

 

[x Tame Impala]

One day when the machines take over this will be all that will be left of HF Boards, AI beings flashing cards on their mainframes at each other.

Thank god I'm older and will be dead by then FFS.

Quick one you cool kids make that terminator meme with this card for prosperity.

I hate those posts. There's no context and it is a low effort argument.

 

[wetcoast]

Hughes has come a long way since 2020. He is actually now what the Canucks fans said he was 4 years ago.

He was that last season as well and basically other than a rough 21-22 season with counting stats that made him look worse than he actually was he was quite underrated n both Norris voting and to some select fans.

But he has basically been one of the 3 top Dmen (at worst top 5) in the league for the period of 19-20 season till today.

 

[Spirits]

But he has basically been one of the 3 top Dmen (at worst top 5) in the league for the period of 19-20 season till today.

I'd want Makar, Heiskenen, Dahlin and Fox over Hughes personally.

 

[Channelcat]

Most hockey writers don't even watch hockey. Let the GMs do it.

 

[SI90]

Nice to see Dobson getting the recognition. Hes been a beast this year.

 

[kroufum]

Yes Panarin is definitely casper the ghost but so are a few others recently, zibs, etc.

Does Fox put up points? Yes we all know that he can. My problem is that Fox cant play in his own zone when PLAYOFF hockey starts. Hence why my first post said Fox should never be in a thread with Cale Makar because he is nowhere close to the caliber of defenseman that Cale is.


Look them up they're not hard to find. Regardless if coaches decision or not, sheltering or not, he doesn't do it. Yes he is an offensive phenom but nowhere the complete defenseman that Cale is.

I need to see more than power play assists, or skating zone entries to say you are the best defenseman in the world and that is who the Norris should go to.

You sir, are a clown.

 

[notsocommonsense]

Ok, I looked it up to see Quinn’s pairing lead the team in both minutes against elite competition and percentage of their minutes against elite competition. Now what?View attachment 835968

View attachment 835969

Well thank god those stats weren’t “hard to find”. It’s almost like people post on here without having any idea what they’re talking about

 

[LemonSauceD]

Yes Panarin is definitely casper the ghost but so are a few others recently, zibs, etc.

Does Fox put up points? Yes we all know that he can. My problem is that Fox cant play in his own zone when PLAYOFF hockey starts. Hence why my first post said Fox should never be in a thread with Cale Makar because he is nowhere close to the caliber of defenseman that Cale is.


Look them up they're not hard to find. Regardless if coaches decision or not, sheltering or not, he doesn't do it. Yes he is an offensive phenom but nowhere the complete defenseman that Cale is.

I need to see more than power play assists, or skating zone entries to say you are the best defenseman in the world and that is who the Norris should go to.

Cale was a -3 mid way through the game and had 2 turnovers before he literally got 2 freebie assists just sliding the puck over to Mackinnon on 2 PP’s. Makar has been absolute dog shit this season.

Hughes leads Makar in every defensive and offensive category since the start of 2023. Fox is right up there.

The posters above also gave you evidence about competition and whatever bullshit you were spewing. I think it’s best you just delete your account, I don’t think anyone will actually ever take you serious after that.

 

[Raistlin]

I'd want Makar, Heiskenen, Dahlin and Fox over Hughes personally.

Hey, not everyone likes A5 Wagyu, some just prefer their Angus. However, there is no one from Canuck camp that doesn't appreciate the role that Hughes played for them this year. Most fans will acknowledge that he deserves the Norris this year.

 

[MikeK]

Unless his game falls off a cliff than this year should absolutely be Hughes.

 

[Jay26]

Hughes is the outright top dog for the Norris this year and that's me being honestly as objective as possible. Look at the counting stats and the underlying defensive metrics. Combine all that and there's no better candidate.

I'm going to get flamed for this but surprisingly Bouchard is also up there. Of all the highest scoring defensemen (because we know that's a main factor) who have played 400+ minutes, he's the only one ahead of Hughes in CA/60 Rel. Heiskanen is up there too.

 

[AvalancheRy]

Now down to 39 GF% without MacKinnon on the ice.

Oh well, of course they look better when they play together. Then they have a 58 GF% and a 55.5 xGF%!

MacKinnon without Makar on the ice: 65.31 GF%, 58.66 xGF%.

People usually talk about other players playing better next to McDavid and being statistically carried by him. Well, at least a guy like Draisaitl can hold his own without him. It's obvious that Makar is being carried this season.

I'm sorry, this is just not Makar's year.

Weird how "not Makar's year" involves him having a viable chance at leading defensemen in points and getting Norris consideration. I don't think you'll find many saying Makar has been at his best this year, but I don't think these stats tell the story you want them to either. He's definitely struggled.

Still the Avs are tied for 1st in the division w/ Makar being off. That should scare people.

 

[Buck Naked]

Weird how "not Makar's year" involves him having a viable chance at leading defensemen in points and getting Norris consideration. I don't think you'll find many saying Makar has been at his best this year, but I don't think these stats tell the story you want them to either. He's definitely struggled.

Still the Avs are tied for 1st in the division w/ Makar being off. That should scare people.

That's just simply because people are too lazy to dig a little deeper and just looks at his point total and assumes he's doing what he usually does. Hedman was a Norris finalist a few years back too while having an awful season because of injuries. That didn't make it any more right, it just showed how the voters go by reputation when they vote. People have been very quick at dismissing Rantanen's game this season and he's been called overrated and flat out bad, despite putting up a massive number of points. Why are people so afraid of critizicing Makar? Why should he mindlessly get pushed for an award when there are other players out there who are having far better seasons? Dobson, Morrissey, Josi.. They're all having better seasons than Makar this year.

But just because you commented. What do you think those stats are saying? I look at them and think that MacKinnon is a true hero this year because he's carrying that team on his shoulders. The rest of the players are just his passengers. He keeps this up and I think the Hart is a slamdunk. But just because Makar is able to grab a lot of points through MacKinnon's dominance I don't think he should be considered for a top 5 Norris placement. I know he will though and he will for sure be a finalist by the end of the season simply because people are assuming stuff based on him being the, pretty much undisputed, #1D in the world.

I agree that other teams should be scared of the Avs. MacKinnon seems to be on a mission and I have a feeling that won't stop anytime soon.

 

[Rowlet]

NHL awards watch: MacKinnon, McDavid, Matthews, and the battle for the Hart Trophy

Some award races are likely already sealed up, others look like they'll go down to the wire. Here’s how each race currently shakes out.

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