Do you guys think Pionk will still improve as a defenseman, or has he fully reached his potential already?
Player Discussion: Neal Pionk
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I mean, he's already 24. There is no possible way he could ever get better now. Not ever.
Exactly. Say what you will about Pionk, but I like him. he's exactly the type of d-man we should have expected in return for Trouba, considering the circumstances. The first rounder was just gravy, which turned into a Poutine with drafting Heinola and how he's looked so far.I mean, he's already 24. There is no possible way he could ever get better now. Not ever.
GumbyCan2
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Lots of room for growth, with experience and increased responsibility. You just never know for sure. With comfort in team and system and partner he is showing more confidence in hisabililties. Those abilities of his are shining through so far more than not. Thumbs up for better growth and production to come.
- Jun 10, 2014
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No not fixed. Lemieux was not in any way connected to the Trouba deal. Just like getting #20 back in a separate deal was not connected to the Hayes deal. There is a coincidence that both involved NYR. But it is only coincidence.
- Jun 10, 2014
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IDK about the NYR but clearly Jets valued him higher than NYR fans did. That is illustrated by the contract they gave Pionk.
The trade looked very bad at the time and that is legitimate. Give Chevy credit for valuing Pionk a little higher than those Rangers fans and it looks a little better. No one expected Heinola to be as good as he has looked so far or he would have been taken higher in the draft.
It is perfectly legitimate to assess a trade the moment it is made. Just don't write that assessment in stone. Re-assess as data comes in.
- Jun 10, 2014
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You're selling him a little short there. He is already a decent 2nd pair guy with room to improve. I don't see him as a 1st pair player ever. He just isn't good enough defensively. But I can see him as an above average 2nd pair guy quite easily.
- Jun 10, 2014
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You are right, up to a point. Pionk got a late start so is still going to improve by experience. He is not going to improve dramatically from what he is now. But he doesn't need to. Give him a legitimate top 4 partner and another year of experience and you have an above average 2nd pair guy. That is based on what he has actually shown so far this year.
- Jun 10, 2014
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You've made that statement quite a few times now, but you haven't said anything to back it up. People have countered with all kinds of shot metrics. You just ignore them and repeat your statement. Pionk is scoring at a 54 pt pace. You ignore that and repeat your statement. Then you state that Jets D is atrocious. Right. And in spite of that, in spite of having an atrocious D corps around him, he is performing well. Not an argument in favour of your position. Make an argument. Back it up.
- Jun 10, 2014
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Fair statement - so far. I think it is a bit premature to declare the trade a good one. Pionk may fade. Heinola may disappoint. Small samples. Trouba may play a lot better for NYR.
The bolded statement is correct - so far.
- Jun 10, 2014
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He should have reached his physical potential. But he is not very experienced so I think it is reasonable to expect at least a little growth over the next year or so.
Agree. Based on what I've seen and his early season shot metrics, the very low value placed on Pionk by many fans and pundits seems to have been overstated. I think it's quite likely that both the Jets and Rangers valued him higher than fans / pundits, in which case the assessment of the trade value at the time was underestimated. If Pionk turns out to be a really solid 2nd pairing D I won't be surprised if the narrative becomes that Chevy "got lucky", when it's more likely that Chevy (and the Rangers) saw him as a 2nd pairing talent all along.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I'm still not certain that the NYR saw him that way - or not. Chevy seemed happy with him from the start. It was almost like he was surprised by the negative reaction.
But the trade was widely assessed as though Pionk was terrible. I think the trade would have been seen a little better even if Pionk was expected to be a 2nd/3rd pair tweener with good offense. I know I devalued his offense on the idea that it mostly depended on PP production. Given that + weak defensive play and it didn't look good.I'm pleasantly surprised so far and now hoping for better.
If Heinola lives up to the potential he has shown so far, the trade is a win. Still a big if, but promising.
I think it's really hard to accurately assess a D, particularly in the first year or so, based on shot metrics on a terrible defensive team like the NYR. In that regard, I think many of the takes on Pionk and on the trade were perhaps over-reactions, including mine.I'm still not certain that the NYR saw him that way - or not. Chevy seemed happy with him from the start. It was almost like he was surprised by the negative reaction.
I'm pleasantly surprised so far and now hoping for better.
If Heinola lives up to the potential he has shown so far, the trade is a win. Still a big if, but promising.
I think literally no-one claimed he is as good or better than Trouba.
Seems to be a decent 2nd pairing guy (#3 or #4 D) while Trouba is a decent #2 D.
And one day Heinola will be better than both of them. Sounds okay to me.
DJBiffWPG
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Ducky10
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I’ll give you one thing, you make very compelling arguments....
.
scelaton
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- Jul 5, 2012
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You left out two important permutations....Trouba may decay under the pressure of being overplayed as a #1 on a bad team, or he may get injured.
The Rangers have $8M of risk tied up in 1 player--that is a lot, considering Trouba's skill set (top pairing but non-elite) and the fact that in 4 of his 6 NHL seasons he's played 55-65 games. For comparison, this year, that $8M would cover Pionk and Heinola (if he stayed, which he won't) , with Morrissey & Beaulieu thrown in to spread the risk even wider.
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I’ll give you one thing, you make very compelling arguments....
lol no sorry that's false
- Jun 10, 2014
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None of that has anything to do with the fact that it is premature to call the trade a good one, or a bad one either for that matter.
Discussing Trouba's contract with NYR is another subject altogether.
Crocket
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- Jul 14, 2013
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He's a second pair on 95% of teams, you would have the most stacked D in the league if he's your 3rd pair guy. Keep in mind he's played far less games then Trouba, it takes years to develop as a solid NHL D. He's ahead of the curve based on his skills. Trouba was brutal in his second year.
MrBoJangelz71
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- Jan 14, 2014
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I remember people saying Tanev is what he is after a hand full of games in the NHL, because he was 24.
Physically, sure, they are mostly developed, but mentally, learning the pace of the game, player tendencies, learning systems, reading systems and all that other stuff can be heavily improved on.
Physically, sure, they are mostly developed, but mentally, learning the pace of the game, player tendencies, learning systems, reading systems and all that other stuff can be heavily improved on.
I worry that after the recent run of games Pionk is waking up in cold sweats from a nightmare that he's still playing for the leaky, lazy, unengaged, gaffe-prone, team defence-stunted NYR -- only in Winnipeg.
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