Player Discussion: Neal Pionk

[GumbyCan2]

He’s a third pair guy.

Pretty dire state the Jets D is in then for sure. Pionk has been overall our bestsituational defender so far! And he's on the 1st or 2nd pairing.
This out of a 3rd pairing Dman? Not a good sign. Morrissey is getting back to stride though, so...

 

[GumbyCan2]

Well, then Chevy had better judgement than the Rangers. The Rangers' D is a catastrophe and even Trouba is mired in the mess there.

Yucka, yucka! Think he minds it though? He is in his big US market so happy, happy, happy he be!

 

[scelaton]

While also having strong underlying metrics. Currently he sits at a 52.48 CF% (7th on Jets), 50.68 HDCF% (7th on Jets), 53.85 GF% (3rd on Jets), 49.10 xGF% (6th on Jets) 5-5.

Whereas Trouba is at 41.5% CF and -2.4 CF%Rel. The Rangers are over-playing him on their marginal team, just as they did Pionk last season.
If Buff ever comes back and Pionk is played as a 2RD with a complimentary partner, our defense will start to look as good as it did last year, but at a $12M discount in this year's $$.

 

[Jetsfan79]

There seems to be a subconscious bias against Pionk. It's like a small scale case of social conformity and short sighted confirmation bias among some fans. The Trouba trade was widely considered as a massive failure of a trade when it happened. It was ridiculed and considered by many as an embarrassment. That was the narrative. So some people think "oh it's that "Pee-onk" guy from the baaaad trade. Oh he must suck". Thats what everyone said! "Oh I and really really bashed that Trouba trade when it happened too. I did emoticons and memes too. Got to validate that opinion somehow."

* sees one bad pass/decision by Pionk in a game* (ignores or down plays everything else) Subconscious Reaction: "oh thats right, he was from that baaad trade the Jets got hosed on. He sucks! Just a bottom pair scrub! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! "

Without that stigma associated with the Trouba trade, and perhaps having a last name such as Armstrong or Champion, maybe Pionk isn't as overlooked as he is.

p.s = yeah I went way overboard with my rant. I still think there some semblance of truth to it though

 

[ps241]

I was one of the people who really hated losing Trouba and was pissed at the value we got in return. I will wait 20 games before I get too excited..........BUT

As of today Pionk has seriously exceeded my expectations. Who knows with a more powerful D core he “might” be better slotted like Myers was for us last year playing out of the 5 spot and bouncing up when needed but that is pure speculation. On the Jets, right now he is only behind Morrissey in talent IMO. He is not the problem in fact he and Heinola are two of the positive stories coming out of this season where we were devastated by some bad fortune (Buff’s possible retirement).

I think next season the Hermantown connection of Samberg and Pionk could form a very solid 2nd pairing once Dylan gets his feet wet. If Sami Niku could catch a f***ing break and grow into a top 4 level and the Buff decision breaks our way we could be back to contender status pretty fast. Now things have to break our way but at least I see a possible path.

Morrissey Buff
Samberg Pionk
Heinola/Niku Poolman

Yes I know Buff is a massive unknown but that is an affordable 7 man D roster that has a blend of size and talent. If Buff retires we are going to need to add an asset in the off season IMO.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Whereas Trouba is at 41.5% CF and -2.4 CF%Rel. The Rangers are over-playing him on their marginal team, just as they did Pionk last season.
If Buff ever comes back and Pionk is played as a 2RD with a complimentary partner, our defense will start to look as good as it did last year, but at a $12M discount in this year's $$.

Some Ranger fans would likely stab their own eyes out than admit Pionk isn’t that bad after all and Trouba’s not the saviour they thought he was.
Lots of crowing from them when this all went down.

 

[KingBogo]

Some Ranger fans would likely stab their own eyes out than admit Pionk isn’t that bad after all and Trouba’s not the saviour they thought he was.
Lots of crowing from them when this all went down.

I would argue this is also true for a handful of Jets fans who seem to care more about wanting Chevy/Maurice/pro scouts to look bad than they care about the actual success of the team.

 

[Eyeseeing]

I would argue this is also true for a handful of Jets fans who seem to care more about wanting Chevy/Maurice/pro scouts to look bad than they care about the actual success of the team.

Yes fair to say some on both sides were over the top.

 

[Jet]

There seems to be a subconscious bias against Pionk. It's like a small scale case of social conformity and short sighted confirmation bias among some fans. The Trouba trade was widely considered as a massive failure of a trade when it happened. It was ridiculed and considered by many as an embarrassment. That was the narrative. So some people think "oh it's that "Pee-onk" guy from the baaaad trade. Oh he must suck". Thats what everyone said! "Oh I and really really bashed that Trouba trade when it happened too. I did emoticons and memes too. Got to validate that opinion somehow."

* sees one bad pass/decision by Pionk in a game* (ignores or down plays everything else) Subconscious Reaction: "oh thats right, he was from that baaad trade the Jets got hosed on. He sucks! Just a bottom pair scrub! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! "

Without that stigma associated with the Trouba trade, and perhaps having a last name such as Armstrong or Champion, maybe Pionk isn't as overlooked as he is.

p.s = yeah I went way overboard with my rant. I still think there some semblance of truth to it though

Very good rant.

Pionk leads the D in points, and is a plus 4 (I know plus minus whatever)

He's a much better defenseman than the Rangers situation allowed him to be. Congrats to the pro scouts for great talent assessment!

My first named jersey is going to be a HC home Pionk

 

[Jet]

I'm with Jet on this one. I think its easier (albeit never 100 percent scientific) to assess a player for player trade. You have the stats for the player coming back. You have analytics. A idea on what kind of player he is. With draft picks, you have to wait and see on what you get and then you can make an assessment on value.

Now obviously a 7th rounder for Trouba would be a bad trade based on the infinitely low probability on finding an elite player at that round. But when its the first round and the fact the Jets have often hit on their first rounders, I think there nothing wrong with deferring appraisal of the trade especially when also taking account of all the other circumstances involved.

I always go back to something like Scheifele or Couturier. At the time, so many people were blasting Chevy for that pick - but I wouldn't trade Scheifele for Couturier that's for sure. I think Heinola is pretty close to a sure thing, and Pionk although he is being depended on heavily has not bent nor broke. If we get Buff back and can get a top 4 of Buff, Pionk, Morrissey, and Beau/Niku (in whatever combo offers the best chemistry) Pionk could be a a cornerstone of our top 4 for years to come.

Meanwhile, Trouba is proving he is a good defenseman, but not a 8MM a year ace. He's being subjected to the same pressures as Pionk was last year - but Pionk played on a worse team, and was a rookie.

Trade is looking better every day!

 

[DJBiffWPG]

Pionk is a far better Player then what you are giving him credit for. He is actually a nice 2nd pairing guy that skates extremely well and is a very good puck mover with nice offensive instincts.

Disagree.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

Maybe your right but you say that like you know for sure. Cant' players grow or improve? Especially since this is only his 3rd NHL season. You say it so matter of factly. Older players I get it. You cant teach an old man new tricks. But the guy is still young. As for the pro scouts, I suck at math overall but I'm good at decimals and fractions. Maybe they had a real good feeling about Plonk despite their past track record? Maybe they saw his style would lend itself well in the Jets system.

Serious question: Do you believe diamonds in the rough exists in sports? Or is everyone's ceiling and potential self evident early on?

I believe that by the age Pionk is you pretty much know what they are. 18 - 20 year olds can develop a lot.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

I wouldn't be surprised if Pionk's metrics and production exceed Trouba's from this year with the Rangers.

lol When with how well Pionk has played he’s still a downgrade from Trouba.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

He’s a second pair guy.

On a bad team sure. Jets D right now is horrendous Hellebuyck is keeping them afloat.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

What is Myers then? His a Top 2 in Van with 3 points in 10 games. While Pionk has 8 in 12 games (on pace for 50 +points). Granted small sample size but I still think my point still has merit. At the very least the jury is still out in my opinion, at most he's already a top 4 right now.

Myers is a third pair guy.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

His play this season is evidence that nope.

Jets D is atrocious this year.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

Pretty dire state the Jets D is in then for sure. Pionk has been overall our bestsituational defender so far! And he's on the 1st or 2nd pairing.
This out of a 3rd pairing Dman? Not a good sign. Morrissey is getting back to stride though, so...

Pionk is a good third pair guy.

 

[Halberdier]

I wouldn't be surprised if Pionk's metrics and production exceed Trouba's from this year with the Rangers.

lol When with how well Pionk has played he’s still a downgrade from Trouba.

I think you misread what @Whileee posted.

Trouba is playing for a bad team in bad situations, while Pionk is playing for an average team with more suitable usage. Pionk has better metrics than Trouba for this season so far, AFAIK.

Is Pionk a substantial downgrade from Trouba? Most likely he is. But hockey is a team game, and currently we are getting better results with Pionk than Rangers are getting with trouba.

 

[DJBiffWPG]

I think you misread what @Whileee posted.

Trouba is playing for a bad team in bad situations, while Pionk is playing for an average team with more suitable usage. Pionk has better metrics than Trouba for this season so far, AFAIK.

Is Pionk a substantial downgrade from Trouba? Most likely he is. But hockey is a team game, and currently we are getting better results with Pionk than Rangers are getting with trouba.

Hey I’m very surprised with Pionk as well I thought he’d be below NHL caliber but he’s been much better. He’s not Trouba tho.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Hey I’m very surprised with Pionk as well I thought he’d be below NHL caliber but he’s been much better. He’s not Trouba tho.

He's better value than Trouba at his cost than Trouba is at 8 mil.

 

[Spock]

He's better value than Trouba at his cost than Trouba is at 8 mil.

It's very difficult to compare Pionk's year in Winnipeg vs how/what Trouba would be doing in Winnipeg.

 

[Duke749]

We have a multi quote function guys...

Also, I like Pionk.

 

[1stDan]

It's very difficult to compare Pionk's year in Winnipeg vs how/what Trouba would be doing in Winnipeg.

Right. We cant possibly do that luckily We dont have to. All we do know is we are getting better play in measurable statistics for a lot less money than the Rangers are getting.

Like it or not the Pionk trade was a good one. Sent a bad apple to the big apple. And freed up a bunch of cash to pay the young studs that want to be here.

Secured us a Ville too.

 

[Ducky10]

On a bad team sure. Jets D right now is horrendous Hellebuyck is keeping them afloat.

Nah, so far eye test and metrics show he's a second pair guy, even on a better team. In fact, with a top 4 partner, he's probably better.
He's not responsible for how bad the Jets D is.

 

[Whileee]

There seems to be a subconscious bias against Pionk. It's like a small scale case of social conformity and short sighted confirmation bias among some fans. The Trouba trade was widely considered as a massive failure of a trade when it happened. It was ridiculed and considered by many as an embarrassment. That was the narrative. So some people think "oh it's that "Pee-onk" guy from the baaaad trade. Oh he must suck". Thats what everyone said! "Oh I and really really bashed that Trouba trade when it happened too. I did emoticons and memes too. Got to validate that opinion somehow."

* sees one bad pass/decision by Pionk in a game* (ignores or down plays everything else) Subconscious Reaction: "oh thats right, he was from that baaad trade the Jets got hosed on. He sucks! Just a bottom pair scrub! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! "

Without that stigma associated with the Trouba trade, and perhaps having a last name such as Armstrong or Champion, maybe Pionk isn't as overlooked as he is.

p.s = yeah I went way overboard with my rant. I still think there some semblance of truth to it though

I don't think there was a "subconscious bias" against Pionk after the trade. Media and fans and statistical analysts looked at his shot metrics and were understandably concerned. My perspective is that there was an overreaction to his shot metrics based on a little over 1 full season in the NHL, during which he was relied on heavily on a really bad defensive team. In those circumstances, even very good D can look bad, and a new NHLer is hard to judge with that sort of sample size from his first NHL experience.

I do think that there is a lingering bias against him based on his previous metrics and the positions that many took after the trade. Despite his positive performance thus far based on his positive shot metrics, his productivity, and the "eye test", many seem highly reluctant to revise their opinions, considering the limited statistical analysis as infallible and their view of Chevy's judgement as immutable.