Most overrated player in the NHL?

[Nineteen67]

If the best player in the NHL can be overrated, so can the best goal scorer (whomever that may be).

McDavid is overrated? It’s common knowledge that Matthews is the best goal scorer in the NHL. And welcome to hockey.

 

[cowboy82nd]

McDavid is overrated? It’s common knowledge that Matthews is the best goal scorer in the NHL. And welcome to hockey.

Thanks for welcoming to hockey even though I've been following it for years (since the 1970's). And yes, McDavid, (who I think is the best player in hockey right now), can be overrated. That doesn't mean that he sucks, it just means that the expectations put on him by some fans, he hasn't lived up to. For instance, I was told that he would bring Edmonton multiple cups by now. He hasn't (and yes, I know that is not entirely his fault), but that was the expectation placed on him, again by some fans. So, in that right, yes McDavid is overrated.

And is it common knowledge that Matthews is the best goal scorer in the NHL? I not saying that he's not but you can't discount the fact McDavid won the Rocket last year and we have other players that can put the puck in the net also (Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Ovechken, etc...) That to me, brings some debate into this conversation. And whoever you think the best goal scorer is, that person can still be overrated by some.

 

[keglu]

Why has Ovechkin never exceeded 90 points since 2010 if it's so easy ?

It is easy in 2020s .
It was hard in 2010s.

 

[DFF]

Elias Lindholm
Jonathan Huberdeau

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

It is easy in 2020s .
It was hard in 2010s.

Daniel Sedin
Martin Saint-Louis
Corey Perry
Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos (X3)
Yevgeni Malkin (X2)
Claude Giroux (X2)
Sidney Crosby (X2)
Patrick Kane (X2)
Connor McDavid (X3)
Nikita Kucherov (X2)
Nathan McKinnon (X2)
Taylor Hall
Anze Kopitar
Phil Kessel
Blake Wheeler (X2)
Leon Draisaitl
Brad Marchand
Johnny Gaudreau
Aleksandar Barkov
Mitchell Marner
Brayden Point
Jonathan Huberdeau

Does it between 2011-19. Not Ovechkin.

 

[keglu]

Daniel Sedin
Martin Saint-Louis
Corey Perry
Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos (X3)
Yevgeni Malkin (X2)
Claude Giroux (X2)
Sidney Crosby (X2)
Patrick Kane (X2)
Connor McDavid (X3)
Nikita Kucherov (X2)
Nathan McKinnon (X2)
Taylor Hall
Anze Kopitar
Phil Kessel
Blake Wheeler (X2)
Leon Draisaitl
Brad Marchand
Johnny Gaudreau
Aleksandar Barkov
Mitchell Marner
Brayden Point
Jonathan Huberdeau

Does it between 2011-19. Not Ovechkin.

These are not 100 points seasons.

Edit: also setting random thresholds like 91 points must be actual trolling.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

These are not 100 points seasons.

Edit: also setting random thresholds like 91 points must be actual trolling.

It's you who decides to insist. You say it's easy to score 106 points, I tell you that Ovechkin hasn't scored more than 90 points since 2010. So if it's that easy, why has he never done it ?

 

[keglu]

It's you who decides to insist. You say it's easy to score 106 points, I tell you that Ovechkin hasn't scored more than 90 points since 2010. So if it's that easy, why has he never done it ?

It is relatively much easier to score 100 points currently than it was when Ovi had his 100 points seasons. That was my argument. You somehow changed it to 91points seasons and 2010s.

Ovi ranking is based mostly on amazing peak and longevity. No one argues he was best player post his peak, Yet you keep comparing hims to player who cant match his peak and dont have longevity (yet).

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

It is relatively much easier to score 100 points currently than it was when Ovi had his 100 points seasons. That was my argument. You somehow changed it to 91points seasons and 2010s.

Ovi ranking is based mostly on amazing peak and longevity. No one argues he was best player post his peak, Yet you keep comparing hims to player who cant match his peak and dont have longevity (yet).

It's also easier to score 100 points when all the offensive systems are built around you and you make everything score as many points as possible.

I don't think Ovechkin got any weaker after age 25. Simply that the team saw other talents emerging and abandoned the all-Ovechkin strategy.

2010-2024 is still a very long cycle. No season over 90 points and being negative over a 14-year cycle is huge.

This is why I find him overrated but at the time, I also remembered that I had the impression that his points at the end of the 2000s did not really reflect his level. I saw Datsyuk and Malkin at his level.

As for longevity, it's very common to see elite players playing until the age of 38 and this season, it's clearly burnt out. Pavelski, a year older, plays better than him.

 

[keglu]

I don't think Ovechkin got any weaker after age 25. Simply that the team saw other talents emerging and abandoned the all-Ovechkin strategy.

Great plan, they went from 121 points team in 09/10 to fringe playoff team 2 years later.

As for longevity, it's very common to see elite players playing until the age of 38 and this season, it's clearly burnt out. Pavelski, a year older, plays better than him.

It is really not, Pavelski was 1st line level between 08-09 and 23-24
Ovi between 05-06 and 22-23. Still edge to Ovi and Pavelski is also exception.

 

[klefbombs shoulder]

Daniel Sedin
Martin Saint-Louis
Corey Perry
Henrik Sedin
Steven Stamkos (X3)
Yevgeni Malkin (X2)
Claude Giroux (X2)
Sidney Crosby (X2)
Patrick Kane (X2)
Connor McDavid (X3)
Nikita Kucherov (X2)
Nathan McKinnon (X2)
Taylor Hall
Anze Kopitar
Phil Kessel
Blake Wheeler (X2)
Leon Draisaitl
Brad Marchand
Johnny Gaudreau
Aleksandar Barkov
Mitchell Marner
Brayden Point
Jonathan Huberdeau

Does it between 2011-19. Not Ovechkin.

And 50 goals seasons in that timespan:

Leon Draisaitl (x1)
Evgeni Malkin (x1)
Corey Perry (x1)
Steven Stamkos (x1)
Alexander Ovechkin (x4)

 

[keglu]

And 50 goals seasons in that timespan:

Leon Draisaitl (x1)
Evgeni Malkin (x1)
Corey Perry (x1)
Steven Stamkos (x1)
Alexander Ovechkin (x4)

Unfortunately scoring goals is selfish, especially on low sh%,

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Great plan, they went from 121 points team in 09/10 to fringe playoff team 2 years later.

It is really not, Pavelski was 1st line level between 08-09 and 23-24
Ovi between 05-06 and 22-23. Still edge to Ovi and Pavelski is also exception.

During these 2 seasons, Washington won 2 series. During the Ovechkin All-in, only 1 in 5 years.

The drop in points in the regular season can be explained by Green's injuries, Backstrom's absence half of the 2011/12 season.

Still problems of understanding except regarding Pavelski. Pavelski has a better 2023/24 season. That's what I was saying. But I think you are deliberately not understanding in order to look for a counter angle.

Anyway, I keep my opinion. Ovechin is overrated for me.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

And 50 goals seasons in that timespan:

Leon Draisaitl (x1)
Evgeni Malkin (x1)
Corey Perry (x1)
Steven Stamkos (x1)
Alexander Ovechkin (x4)

Much more collective players who shoot much less on goal.

A guy like Malkin plays to score, to make teammates score and to defend. Ovechkin only plays to score and put a few shoulder shots against the boards.

 

[klefbombs shoulder]

Much more collective players who shoot much less on goal.

A guy like Malkin plays to score, to score and to defend. Ovechkin only plays to score and put a few shoulder shots against the boards.

Ah yes we all know Malkins motto. To score, to score and to defend.

How could I forget?

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Hasn't ovie had more than his share of defense first coaches? Trotz comes to mind. I don't think backchecking has been Ovechkin's favorite aspect of the game.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It is easy in 2020s .
It was hard in 2010s.

just alot more skilled played now then there was back then. its really that simple so no its not harder or easier. there were just less elite players

 

[keglu]

During these 2 seasons, Washington won 2 series. During the Ovechkin All-in, only 1 in 5 years.

Still being worse in RS does not seem like great plan to increase your change to win a cup

The drop in points in the regular season can be explained by Green's injuries, Backstrom's absence half of the 2011/12 season.

They remained average at best till 15/16

Still problems of understanding except regarding Pavelski. Pavelski has a better 2023/24 season. That's what I was saying. But I think you are deliberately not understanding in order to look for a counter angle.

Longevity by definition cant be measured by one season performance.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

just alot more skilled played now then there was back then. its really that simple so no its not harder or easier. there were just less elite players

I am sure that's a factor, but the mid-late 2000's saw an increase in speed and unimpeded play. By unimpeded, i mean there wasn't as much clutching and grabbing. This allowed the goal scorers to get into high danger zones and net the puck. As teams adapted to the rule changes and learned how to slow skaters down again, scoring dropped significantly. Reducing the size of goalie equipment and the depth of the net has helped a bit with that.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I am sure that's a factor, but the mid-late 2000's saw an increase in speed and unimpeded play. By unimpeded, i mean there wasn't as much clutching and grabbing. This allowed the goal scorers to get into high danger zones and net the puck. As teams adapted to the rule changes and learned how to slow skaters down again, scoring dropped significantly. Reducing the size of goalie equipment and the depth of the net has helped a bit with that.

I know but it also allowed players over the past 10+ years to get better with those rules and become alot more elite.
not as many elite goalies right now either which is also a factor. I still think if u threw McDavid and alot of the other players putting up 90-100+ points in the league around 2010 that scoring would go up. still within a timeframe where they would benefit from advanced training and all that. harder to say this when comparing to like the 80s

 

[keglu]

just alot more skilled played now then there was back then. its really that simple so no its not harder or easier. there were just less elite players

I disagree
10/11-15/16 - outside of Crosby best scorers were Stamkos/Kane/Malkin at 1,03-1,13 PPG range
In last 3 seasons in 1.03-1.13 range we have players like Forsberg/Point/Guentzel/Connor/Nylander
Stamkos actually improved between these 2 periods.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

I know but it also allowed players over the past 10+ years to get better with those rules and become alot more elite.
not as many elite goalies right now either which is also a factor. I still think if u threw McDavid and alot of the other players putting up 90-100+ points in the league around 2010 that scoring would go up. still within a timeframe where they would benefit from advanced training and all that. harder to say this when comparing to like the 80s

One of the saddest aspects of hockey right now. Goalies work hard on having sound technical skills. That instinctual slinky spine, paddle saves, diving across the crease with the glove behind your back is a thing of the past. The result is consistent and sound goaltending, so i am sure management loves it. The rest of us miss the excitement and skill.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I disagree
10/11-15/16 - outside of Crosby best scorers were Stamkos/Kane/Malkin at 1,03-1,13 PPG range
In last 3 seasons in 1.03-1.13 range we have players like Forsberg/Point/Guentzel/Connor/Nylander
Stamkos actually improved between these 2 periods.

alot of skill entered the league since 15/16

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Still being worse in RS does not seem like great plan to increase your change to win a cup


They remained average at best till 15/16


Longevity by definition cant be measured by one season performance.

So Washington would have been stronger by continuing to center all offensive schemes around him. Not really convinced but hey... it seemed to me that the title had been won in 2018 with a more collective team.

I measure longevity by age. Elite talent often stays until age 40. Selanne played up to 44, Chara 45 Jagr up to 46.

Anyway, anything you can tell me has no impact on my evaluation.

The goals, the longevity, this is precisely what establishes Ovechkin as a great player in history. But there are other aspects which mean that if I had to make a ranking, he is a player that I would exclude from the top 10 and that alongside him, other less publicized players were at least as good.

 

[Planetov]

2010-2024 is still a very long cycle. No season over 90 points and being negative over a 14-year cycle is huge.

Don’t forget that prior to that time period, he failed reach 66 goals in a season, 60 assists in a season, and his 112-point season was dwarfed by Bernie Nicholls’s 150-point season in 1989!

And during this period of generational selfishness, he failed to top the all-time selfishness in a single season shot record set by generational selfish player Phil Esposito in 1970.