Most overrated player in the NHL?

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Did you even watch hockey back then? Please tell me who the other 5 players are that were better than Ovechkin during his prime? And please don't use total points as a determinant.

Between 2010 to 2015 : Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Stamkos, Giroux, Bergeron, Toews + some D and G
Between 2015 to 2020 : McDavid, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov, Draisaitl, Bergeron + anothers F, D and G

Even if you force to scan as many names as possible there will always be some to exclude him from the top 5 in the 2010s. Even in 2018, he was not the best player on his team but John Carlson.

I didn’t know the NHL had an individualism award.

Name me an elite player in the history of this sport more individualistic than him

 

[Planetov]

Even during his period 2005-2010 where he broke the record for individualism in the history of this sport, he never exceeded 112 points.

Please qualify what on earth “the record for individualism” is.
Whose record was it that he broke?
Which statistic/accomplishment/benchmark was it?
When did that player set said record?

 

[Planetov]

I didn’t know the NHL had an individualism award.

Wait, I got it. He won the Alexander Ovechkin Memorial (Mulletman would be proud)Trophy given to the player who best exemplifies individualism and selfishness.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Please qualify what on earth “the record for individualism” is.
Whose record was it that he broke?
Which statistic/accomplishment/benchmark was it?
When did that player set said record?

For the moment the only statistical record that Ovechkin has broken is the number of shots and by a long way.

I already saw Ovechkin (el famoso Ovechkin prime) play a game without making a single pass. I've never seen a player play alone like he did back then except for Patrick Laine a few years ago and some 10 year old kids in an Atom tournament.

Otherwise you're forcing too much man. You will never be able to change my mind so you are wasting your time.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

Between 2010 to 2015 : Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Stamkos, Giroux, Bergeron, Toews + some D and G
Between 2015 to 2020 : McDavid, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Kucherov, Draisaitl, Bergeron + anothers F, D and G

Even if you force to scan as many names as possible there will always be some to exclude him from the top 5 in the 2010s. Even in 2018, he was not the best player on his team but John Carlson.



Name me an elite player in the history of this sport more individualistic than him

Individualistic? Did you know that a team needs to score goals in order to win games? He also was an absolute bull on the ice, another essential part of winning.

You specifically mentioned that he was not top 5 "in the middle of last decade", sorry but you are dead wrong. I think Crosby was #1, there is an argument for Kane, but anyone who actually watched hockey then would not hesitate to take Ovechkin over the others. Giroux, seriously...You obviously have a hate on for Ovechkin.

 

[keglu]

Even during his period 2005-2010 where he broke the record for individualism in the history of this sport, he never exceeded 112 points.

As you just said, there is huge competition in the current generation with McDavid, Matthews, McKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl. Hey, I forgot that last one. He too is superior to Ovechkin.

Already in the middle of last decade Ovechkin was not top 5 when he was at his biological prime.
Crosby is way above Ovechkin. Malkin is no less good. I even think he's better.

Matthews carrer high is 106 points and this is his only season above 90 points...
But since you also believe 5 players now are better than Malkin also i quess you just overrate current players in general, which is fitting considering thread title.
Also for your information Mackinnon in general has terrible sh% and takes a lot of shots.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Individualistic? Did you know that a team needs to score goals in order to win games? He also was an absolute bull on the ice, another essential part of winning.

You specifically mentioned that he was not top 5 "in the middle of last decade", sorry but you are dead wrong. I think Crosby was #1, there is an argument for Kane, but anyone who actually watched hockey then would not hesitate to take Ovechkin over the others. Giroux, seriously...You obviously have a hate on for Ovechkin.

Actually come to think of it, he was never top 5 after 2010.

In early 2010, Giroux was super hot. I watched the NHL those years.

Matthews carrer high is 106 points and this is his only season above 90 points...
But since you also believe 5 players now are better than Malkin also i quess you just overrate current players in general, which is fitting considering thread title.

You're going to have to update because Matthews is on base with 103 points this year. And he will do others when Ovechkin hasn't done any over 90 after 2010

 

[sxvnert]

Suzuki

 

[keglu]

You're going to have to update because Matthews is on base with 103 points this year. And he will do others when Ovechkin hasn't done any over 90 after 2010

And Ovi had 4 106+ points season in first 5 years...

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

And Ovi had 4 106+ points season in first 5 years...

Matthews will smash this mark without forcing.

 

[Planetov]

For the moment the only statistical record that Ovechkin has broken is the number of shots and by a long way.

No, no, no. You said this:

during his period 2005-2010 where he broke the record for individualism in the history of this sport

So between 2005-2010, which “record for individualism in the history of this sport” did he break? It’s a simple question.

 

[keglu]

Matthews will smash this mark without forcing.

Not that impresive in era where Ryan Nugent Hopkins is 100 point player.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

No, no, no. You said this:

So between 2005-2010, which “record for individualism in the history of this sport” did he break? It’s a simple question.

Are you too intellectually limited to understand sarcasm ?

Well if you want I can change the sentence by expressing it literally with its idea : between 2005 and 2010, Ovechkin was the most individualistic player that the NHL has ever had in its history.

Not that impresive in era where Ryan Nugent Hopkins is 100 point player.

Why has Ovechkin never exceeded 90 points since 2010 if it's so easy ?

 

[wmupreds]

Maybe not most overrated but Seider hasn't made a ton of strides yet and for whatever reason a lot of people seem to take it as a given that hes the new Lidstrom or something.

Good player but I don't see him becoming a major star at this point

 

[Planetov]

Are you too intellectually limited to understand sarcasm ?

Resorted to personal shots again, I see.

Well if you want I can change the sentence by expressing it literally with its idea : between 2005 and 2010, Ovechkin was the most individualistic player that the NHL has ever had in its history.

Just say what you mean, and mean what you say. Find some consistency. And learn to qualify your comments. Back them up with statistics and logic. And keep your logic train on the same track.

I don’t want to change your mind. You anti-Ovechkin folks are dime-a-dozen. Not unique. You will always battle reality, history, and consensus.

 

[Randyne]

between 2005 and 2010, Ovechkin was the most individualistic player that the NHL has ever had in its history.

Ovi haters always lie. Blatantly.
Here are the actual numbers:
2005-2010:
Ovechkin's P/GP in team losses =.86 it's the first place in NHL with huge gap 15% more than second place .75 (min 100 gp).
Ovechkin's P/GP in team OT losses =1.30 it's the first place in NHL with gigantic gap 23% more than second place 1.06 (min 50 gp).
These numbers proves that he cared much more than entire league to actually win games.

 

[castle]

Ovi haters always lie. Blatantly.
Here are the actual numbers:
2005-2010:
Ovechkin's P/GP in team losses =.86 it's the first place in NHL with huge gap 15% more than second place .75 (min 100 gp).
Ovechkin's P/GP in team OT losses =1.30 it's the first place in NHL with gigantic gap 23% more than second place 1.06 (min 50 gp).
These numbers proves that he cared much more than entire league to actually win games.

hey, have to comment here, but I am not a part of the ovechkin debate. As a person who generates ad I terpets data quite frequently, I would have to say…. No it doesn’t prove that. At all. All it proves is that he scored in losses. Maybe they were all garbage time goals. Maybe he only did what it took to make sure he got points without doing what’s best for the team. Or alternatively, maybe it shows that he was always working hard to help the team win. The number is just a number. Your interpretation is just that. Yours. And could be right. Or could be wrong.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Well this thread went straight down the toilet.

Who’s next, Gretzky? Howe?

 

[Bowski]

Some Leaf.

Let's go with Wendel Clark, an embarrassment when he came back to finish off his career.

I remember going to a random game against the Hawks in the mid-90s, and some drunks musing about how he was back, along with D King and K King (certainly there's a Donkey Kong joke in there).
What awful times in the last years of the MLG.

 

[Randyne]

it shows that he was always working hard to help the team win.

Yes. That's the only option without any 'maybe'. No one knows the future. Your assumption that Ovi is a fortune teller and doing everything to make his stats in team losses better is crazy.
In the milestone thread Ovi haters also blamed him that he only scores when his team is leading 2 or goals (of course that was a lie), then the actual stats showed up and he was on the bottom of that list.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Much more effective at scoring goals but also plays much better with his partners.

Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Can you elaborate on that?

Should I continue to justify my point of view forever ?

I've already said it dozens of times on this topic.

 

[T REX]

When the thread asks for a "negative" viewpoint?

It starts off combative from the first post.

Just mudslinging and degradation of amazing players.

No thanks.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Zegras and Barzal

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Timo Meier. Was massively overrated when the trade occurred. Took on that massive contract and is still overrated as proven by his lack of production in comparison to contract.