Speculation: Mitch Marner Mega Thread Part 5 (Warning in OP)

[Dekes For Days]

The countless Maple Leafs fans saying that Matthews was overpaid can be found in this thread before the contract was signed and this thread immediately after it was signed. The reaction to the contract was so overwhelmingly negative that one fan said it was like a post-game thread after a Leafs loss. Do they all have an anti-Leafs agenda as well?

That's not a fair representation of the wildly differing opinions in those threads, but no, I don't expect Leaf fans to immediately be happy with it. It's not an overpayment, but it's not a discount, and most fans of teams would like their star players to take team discounts, especially when the cap and contract negotiations and impending doom have been all that has been spewed into their face nonstop for a year in a media and leaf-hating frenzy.

There's a difference between thinking his contract is an overpayment in the initial disappointment that you didn't get a discount, and going around to every thread (relevant or not) 6 months later, claiming that he's 2 million overpaid and you know best because look at my hand-picked charts.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

But what does any of that have to do with Marner, he's allowed to disagree it was an overpay, either way its not actually relevant to the topic - so what's it matter.

The fact that Matthews was heavily overpaid next to his closest comparables means that Marner will probably be heavily overpaid next to them as well.

That's not a fair representation of the wildly differing opinions in those threads, but no, I don't expect Leaf fans to immediately be happy with it. It's not an overpayment, but it's not a discount, and most fans of teams would like their star players to take team discounts, especially when the cap and contract negotiations and impending doom have been all that has been spewed into their face nonstop for a year in a media and leaf-hating frenzy.

There's a difference between thinking his contract is an overpayment in the initial disappointment that you didn't get a discount, and going around to every thread (relevant or not) 6 months later, claiming that he's 2 million overpaid and you know best because look at my hand-picked charts.

But they weren't complaining that he didn't give a discount. They were complaining that he was overpaid. Your representation of their comments is dishonest. The opinions were differing but they were mostly negative.

Don't bother with that guy, it's not worth your time. Anyone who thinks the Matthews contract wasn't overpayment is obviously drinking some serious Kool aid and their opinion is compromised.

Fair enough. And I might as well stop arguing it, since it seems that most reasonable and honest posters agree with me on this, just to different degrees. Some say it was only by $0.5-$1M but either way, we can generally agree that it was an overpayment and that Marner's camp will want the same.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Don't bother with that guy, it's not worth your time. Anyone who thinks the Matthews contract wasn't overpayment is obviously drinking some serious Kool aid and their opinion is compromised.

Says the guy who literally ran from the discussion after having his complete contradiction of position called out.

I see you're back. Still didn't answer anything, but you're back.

 

[Cotton]

The fact that Matthews was heavily overpaid next to his closest comparables means that Marner will probably be heavily overpaid next to them as well.

Oh? Who were the comparables brought up in negotiations.

What does Matthews, or any hypothetical comparable, have to do with Marner's contract negotiations?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Oh? Who were the comparables brought up in negotiations.

What does Matthews, or any hypothetical comparable, have to do with Marner's contract negotiations?

The comparable to Marner is Patrick Kane. I've seen countless Maple Leafs fans bring up Patrick Kane off his ELC and say that Marner should get no more than the 11.09% cap hit over 5 years that Kane got. My argument is that because Matthews got overpaid by far more than his closest comparable, Steven Stamkos off his ELC, Marner is going to get overpaid as well. He's not going to play fair with his comparables because that's obviously not what Matthews' camp did.

 

[Cotton]

Don't bother with that guy, it's not worth your time. Anyone who thinks the Matthews contract wasn't overpayment is obviously drinking some serious Kool aid and their opinion is compromised.

That guy technically has more right to be in this thread than either of you, he actually is a fan of the player and team he plays for, so he would be more familiar with what's going on and what's at stake than you. He just has a differing opinion about a contract is all. Silly reason to attempt to ostracize him.

 

[Cotton]

The comparable to Marner is Patrick Kane. I've seen countless Maple Leafs fans bring up Patrick Kane off his ELC and say that Marner should get no more than the 11.09% cap hit over 5 years that Kane got. My argument is that because Matthews got overpaid by far more than his closest comparable, Steven Stamkos off his ELC, Marner is going to get overpaid as well. He's not going to play fair with his comparables because that's obviously not what Matthews' camp did.

I don't care about countless Maple Leafs fans or what they say. I asked who was used as Matthews comparables in his contract negotiation and how it, and they, relate to Marners. You made it seem like you knew when I asked why Matthews contract was relevant. Even BobbyMac agrees it's not, so can you actually tell me?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I don't care about countless Maple Leafs fans or what they say. I asked who was used as Matthews comparables in his contract negotiation and how it, and they, relate to Marners. You made it seem like you knew when I asked why Matthews contract was relevant. Even BobbyMac agrees it's not, so can you actually tell me?

Because Marner’s agent and his father have both brought up the Auston Matthews contract?

I think they’re a bit more important than Bob McKenzie.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That guy technically has more right to be in this thread than either of you, he actually is a fan of the player and team he plays for, so he would be more familiar with what's going on and what's at stake than you. He just has a differing opinion about a contract is all. Silly reason to attempt to ostracize him.

I don't have a right to be in a thread on the main board about a player I've been following since junior? Who has been rumored to be a candidate for OS from my team?

I don't think the guy that I blocked has any more right to be here than me.

 

[Cotton]

Because Marner’s agent and his father have both brought up the Auston Matthews contract?

I think they’re a bit more important than Bob McKenzie.

What you think is irrelevant too. I'm actually talking about facts, and facts are Matthews negotiation was so quick and clean nobody knows who the comparables are because nothing was strategically leaked.

In Marner's case it was strategically released that Matthews was his camps choice in a comparable, one that is almost unanimously agreed to be unrealistic. And Mackenzie has suggested that Dubas would look to use Kucherov and Stone as comparables, yet we don't know for sure.

What we do know is if Dubas had accepted Matthews as a comparable a contract would already be signed, since they are still negotiating its logical one or both of the salary and term are different than Matthews contract, and if they are different than Matthews contract than what Matthews got, overpay or no, it irrelevant to what Marner will get.

See what I mean? No point in going on about things that don't matter.

 

[Cotton]

I don't have a right to be in a thread on the main board about a player I've been following since junior? Who has been rumored to be a candidate for OS from my team?

I don't think the guy that I blocked has any more right to be here than me.

Quote me where I talk about you having no right.

Weird, I don't recall you in the Marner threads when he was playing for London.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Quote me where I talk about you having no right.

Weird, I don't recall you in the Marner threads when he was playing for London.

Look again. I'm on record saying he was a #1 overall caliber player.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Can a Mod please clean this up and get this thread back on topic.

 

[Cotton]

Look again. I'm on record saying he was a #1 overall caliber player.

I didn't get to that, but you did some posting in there and were generally high on him, so I stand corrected.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I don't have a right to be in a thread on the main board about a player I've been following since junior? Who has been rumored to be a candidate for OS from my team?

I don't think the guy that I blocked has any more right to be here than me.

He doesn't. You are equally as welcome as anyone else.

 

[Amadeus]

Nico Hischier and a 1st for Mitch Marner.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Nico Hischier and a 1st for Mitch Marner.

No thanks. We're too thin at center. Switch Matthews for Marner and that's a better idea.

 

[Kranix]

That guy technically has more right to be in this thread than either of you, he actually is a fan of the player and team he plays for, so he would be more familiar with what's going on and what's at stake than you. He just has a differing opinion about a contract is all. Silly reason to attempt to ostracize him.

Oh stop it.

 

[Cotton]

Oh stop it.

Okie dokie.

 

[Yasuo]

He wants Matthews’s contracts. Good luck Leafs fans

 

[Pengu]

Still no offer sheet? What a big ****** surprise....
No sane GM will give up 4 1st round picks.

 

[MilesNewton]

Still no offer sheet? What a big ****** surprise....
No sane GM will give up 4 1st round picks.

There is still time.

 

[Petrus]

Marner will not likely get an OS. Not at the rate he is presumably asking.

There was an expectation with pundits the Cap was going to increase more than what has actually occurred.

I wonder if this played a role in salaries currently being negotiated for Aho, Marner, Rantanen, Point and Tkachuk.

I was not expecting Aho to get less than 9m per year, as an example.

I would also value Aho more than Marner given the position Aho plays.

(edit)

 

[Mickey Marner]

Marner will not likely get an OS. Not at the rate he is presumably asking.

There was an expectation with pundits the Cap was going to increase more than what has actually occurred.

I wonder if this played a role in salaries currently being negotiated for Aho, Marner, Rantanen, Point and Tkachuk.

I was not expecting Aho to get less than 9m per year, as example.

It plays a huge role. The difference between the actual (81.5) and projected (83) cap will come almost entirely out of the pockets of RFAs who didn't sign pre-July 1st. If fact, I bet all the veterans anticipated this and voted down the inflator.

Marner is the least logical target, he's just the only RFA who plays for the Leafs, so we're on thread 5.

 

[DomBarr]

The comparable to Marner is Patrick Kane. I've seen countless Maple Leafs fans bring up Patrick Kane off his ELC and say that Marner should get no more than the 11.09% cap hit over 5 years that Kane got. My argument is that because Matthews got overpaid by far more than his closest comparable, Steven Stamkos off his ELC, Marner is going to get overpaid as well. He's not going to play fair with his comparables because that's obviously not what Matthews' camp did.

I guess I agree...the new comparable he will use is Panarin...