Mike Hoffman | Part II UPDATE: Off to Arbitration

[Vesa Awesaka]

You're looking at this in some kind of parallel universe vacuum. Take a look at the history of arbitration and you will see that your opinion you seem willing to fall on is almost the exact opposite to the facts. Neither team, nor player want to go to hearing, and both sides almost always work their ***** off to try and strike a deal before the hearing. What it does do though is force a final date on negotiations, which is the very important, but clearly overlooked point.

Bold:

Uhm, how about this: Most players that file for arbitration never make it to the hearing, which means that in almost all cases the player is NOT stuck with a one year deal by filing. Both team and players almost always settle on a deal and move on because filing for arbitration is generally a move by either side to pressure a deal before the hearing. Sure, he may end up with a one or two year deal awarded by the arbitrator, but all of the smart money is on a deal made before the hearing. Now all of that 'lol'ing' just makes you look a little silly now doesn't it

You may feel as though your story makes sense, and you clearly have no problems arguing it vehemently either way, but the reality of the situation is that by far the majority of arbitration filings are used to leverage deals either way. Hoffman very likely has NO interest in a one year deal.

I know most players dont head to a hearing but hes set himself on the path TO A 1 YEAR DEAL. He is going to get a one year deal unless the sens change their offer. Why would he elect for a process that would LEAD TO A ONE YEAR DEAL if he absolutely was unwilling to take a one year deal.

You havent been able to explain how him filing for arbitration helps him get term. It in fact sets him on the path to what you say he doesnt want at all.


The problem i have is you suggested hes unwilling to take a one year deal. Is that what you are saying?

-Sens offer a one year deal
-Hoffman refuses because he wants term and files for arbitration that will lead to a one year deal unless the sens change their offer


vs

-Sens offer a one year deal
-Hoffman refuses because he wants term and choose not to file for a process that will lead to a one year contract because he wants term so badly

Arbitration takes away leverage to get himself term. It adds leverage to get him paid fairly for one year


I 100 percent bet you are right he doesnt want a one year deal but him filing for a process that will lead to a one year deal suggests to me hes willing to take one

I rarely get incensed but my gosh this seems so simple.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I know most players dont head to a hearing but hes set himself on the path TO A 1 YEAR DEAL. He is going to get a one year deal unless the sens change their offer. Why would he elect for a process that would LEAD TO A ONE YEAR DEAL if he absolutely was unwilling to take a one year deal.

You havent been able to explain how him filing for arbitration helps him get term. It in fact sets him on the path to what you say he doesnt want at all.

He's set himself on a path to a ONE OR TWO YEAR DEAL (no need to neglect half of the options to help back your point), but more importantly hes set himself on a path to A GUARANTEED CONTRACT BY AUGUST 5th.

Once he files for arbitration he is guaranteed a contract before the season starts. No hold outs, no pressure tactics from the team, a contract of one or two years is guaranteed. It's not just smart, it's common sense.

It helps to speed up and focus the negotiations. If money is the issue it's an easy solve at the hearing, if term is the issue then it all needs solving before the hearing date. Arbitration doesn't lead him to a long term deal, but it forces the two sides to come to a mutually acceptable deal quickly, OR they get what the arbiter decides. History has shown us that overwhelmingly, players and teams come to a mutually acceptable deal. What that means for the Sens and Hoffman, we shall see, but what it does show us is that filing for arbitration doesn't mean that a player wants or is resigning themselves to a one year deal. They will obviously take it if that's how it ends up, but that is generally the worst-case scenario in the whole process.

I also noticed that you have moved the goalpost by trying to now argue that I was in some way saying that Hoffman was "absolutely unwilling to take a one year deal". This is both false and disingenuous.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

He's set himself on a path to a ONE OR TWO YEAR DEAL (no need to neglect half of the options to help back your point), but more importantly hes set himself on a path to A GUARANTEED CONTRACT BY AUGUST 5th.

Once he files for arbitration he is guaranteed a contract before the season starts. No hold outs, no pressure tactics from the team, a contract of one or two years is guaranteed. It's not just smart, it's common sense.

It helps to speed up and focus the negotiations. If money is the issue it's an easy solve at the hearing, if term is the issue then it all needs solving before the hearing date. Arbitration doesn't lead him to a long term deal, but it forces the two sides to come to a mutually acceptable deal quickly, OR they get what the arbiter decides. History has shown us that overwhelmingly, players and teams come to a mutually acceptable deal. What that means for the Sens and Hoffman, we shall see, but what it does show us is that filing for arbitration doesn't mean that a player wants or is resigning themselves to a one year deal. They will obviously take it if that's how it ends up, but that is generally the worst-case scenario in the whole process.

I also noticed that you have moved the goalpost by trying to now argue that I was in some way saying that Hoffman was "absolutely unwilling to take a one year deal". This is both false and disingenuous.

I asked if thats what you are saying. I wanted to be clear thats what you meant. So in your opinion Hoffman would or wouldnt take a 1 year contract if the sens offered one to him. Be reasonable and use logic. Hoffman isnt likely to get 6 mil for a one year contract in arbitration.

Im assuming the sens arent going to give Hoffman a contract that makes him a UFA because that would hurt their leverage if they wanted to re-sign him after his arbitration contract expired . You know the sens get to choose the term because it was player elected arbitration?

I mean Hoffman even said he knows he wont get a 2 year contract

 

[Ice-Tray]

I asked if thats what you are saying. I wanted to be clear thats what you meant. So in your opinion Hoffman would or wouldnt take a 1 year contract if the sens offered one to him. Be reasonable and use logic. Hoffman isnt likely to get 6 mil for a one year contract in arbitration.

Huh? There is no room for an opinion on this.

Hoffman doesn't have a choice. It's player elected arbitration which means that if the process follows through to it's conclusion the team will either walk away from the deal, or sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal.

What Hoffman gets is a guaranteed 'fair' contract, or instant UFA status, by early August.

EDIT: Seems like we're getting caught up in a non issue here, in this regard I think we're in agreement, maybe even the whole thing......... Mind blown.....

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Huh? There is no room for an opinion on this.

Hoffman doesn't have a choice. It's player elected arbitration which means that if the process follows through to it's conclusion the team will either walk away from the deal, or sign him to a 1 or 2 year deal.

What Hoffman gets is a guaranteed 'fair' contract, or instant UFA status, by early August.

EDIT: Seems like we're getting caught up in a non issue here, in this regard I think we're in agreement, maybe even the whole thing......... Mind blown.....

I apologize for seeming rude at times but for some reason this whole discussion infuriated me. I just finished my work out awhile ago. Maybe the blood is still flowing.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I apologize for seeming rude at times but for some reason this whole discussion infuriated me. I just finished my work out awhile ago. Maybe the blood is still flowing.

Haha, me too dude. I was laughing to myself about ridiculous you were, until I realized that we were saying the same thing the whole time.

That's when I realized how highly intelligent you were

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Lol, good thread.

I'm of the opinion that Hoffman has guaranteed a one year deal but at least it'll be at a value he can live with. No way do the sens choose 2 years and let him walk in to FA.

I think he'll sign a 1 year 3-3.5 mil deal before the hearing unless the Sens are really confident the Arbitrator will see things their way. I can't see him getting awarded less than 3, goal scorers get paid.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Arbitration date is july 30

 

[The Lewler]

Dat summertime drama.

I hope Hoff bought a nice ride to enjoy this summer on credit.. he'll get paiddd this year.

 

[jbeck5]

Dat summertime drama.

I hope Hoff bought a nice ride to enjoy this summer on credit.. he'll get paiddd this year.

I'm sure he can use last years money to buy a nice 100k+ Audi/BMW/Mercedes etc.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Or a fleet of Kia sorentos

 

[Sun God Nika]

Seriously pissed of Chiasson gets a hearing a week before Hoffman. Hoffman filed first it should go by that order.

 

[BondraTime]

Seriously pissed of Chiasson gets a hearing a week before Hoffman. Hoffman filed first it should go by that order.

It literally makes 0 difference

 

[jbeck5]

It literally makes 0 difference

What?! You're not also seriously pissed off?! Da **** dude.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I want results and I want them now ...

 

[Caeldan]

Seriously pissed of Chiasson gets a hearing a week before Hoffman. Hoffman filed first it should go by that order.

Hoffman's from Kitchener, not Sweden... why so much emotional investment in a contract that's likely going to be lower than what you think he should get paid?

 

[KnuckChuckinTkachuk]

1 yr 3.5 at the very mosttttt for me

 

[VikingKarlsson]

I'm sure he can use last years money to buy a nice 100k+ Audi/BMW/Mercedes etc.

He drives a Gmc truck. And has a gmc SUV. He was my neighbour.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Hoffman's from Kitchener, not Sweden... why so much emotional investment in a contract that's likely going to be lower than what you think he should get paid?

I just want it to get done its like waiting for next weeks episode of game of thrones quicker date quicker the contract gets done. I just don't get how Chiasson gets his date first even though Hoffman filed multiple days in advance.

 

[BonkTastic]

I just don't get how Chiasson gets his date first even though Hoffman filed multiple days in advance.

Did you not even watch the TSN Arbitration Frenzy programming? Hoffman lost the Arbitration Hearing Lottery, Bill Daly was there and everything.

Nashville won the lottery with their Craig Smith hearing, even though Arizona probably deserved it more in their case with Philip Samuelsson. Part of me thinks the whole draft is rigged, but the other part of me doesn't think the NHL is smart enough to pull it off so smoothly if it were a work.

 

[BondraTime]

I just want it to get done its like waiting for next weeks episode of game of thrones quicker date quicker the contract gets done. I just don't get how Chiasson gets his date first even though Hoffman filed multiple days in advance.

C comes before H, DUH.

Maybe Hoffmans is a more difficult case?

Maybe they realize the dates are completely arbitrary and it couldn't possibly cause unrest to fans on who has the dates first?

 

[Icelevel]

Seriously pissed of Chiasson gets a hearing a week before Hoffman. Hoffman filed first it should go by that order.

but chia deserves and will get less so hoff will lower expectations when he sees chia only gets 2 something

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

1 yr 3.5 at the very mosttttt for me

So at 3.6 for 1 year would you walk away and let him go to UFA?

Dat summertime drama.

I hope Hoff bought a nice ride to enjoy this summer on credit.. he'll get paiddd this year.

Ideally i'd photoshop Hoff's face on this but you get the drift

 

[MiscBrah]

I just want it to get done its like waiting for next weeks episode of game of thrones quicker date quicker the contract gets done. I just don't get how Chiasson gets his date first even though Hoffman filed multiple days in advance.

They have to work out a date that works for the team, Hoff's agent and the arbitrator and then fit it in the schedule. It's not like everyone is just sitting at home counting the minutes until the hearing. (except you lol)

 

[aragorn]

Yost on Hoffman.

http://www.tsn.ca/sens-hoffman-has-good-case-for-arbitration-1.331024