Mike Hoffman | Part II UPDATE: Off to Arbitration

[Ice-Tray]

I disagree. Hoffman tries hard. Spezza didn't. Has nothing to do with their size or their stride.

Watch spezza skate for that loose puck before he goes in on his famous goal on theodore in overtime. He's skating at full speed. THAT is what spezza looks skating full speed. now look at his backcheck. Nowhere near the same exuberance in his stride.

Hoffman, on the other hand, i saw skating just as forcefully while backchecking as he does while on the attack. There were even a few times where hoffman pulled a karlsson by skating back at 110% and coming out of screen only to "youink" take the puck and go the other way.

What i love about hoffman is when he tries to create something and loses the puck, he often goes in beast mode to not be benched by becoming a tasmanian devil on the backcheck. Spezza never did this.

Spezza took half the rink to get up to full speed, he has a big boy. We all know you don't like Spezza, it's not really an issue here though. My point was that defensively weak players, for either effort or skill, have a short shelf life here.

Hoffman is NOT effective in the D zone, I like the guy, and have been saying that he needs to improve on it if he wants a regular top six spot. He is nowhere close to Bobby Ryan, in terms of getting back into the play after he has turned the puck over. He is the fastest guy out there, but almost never busts his ass to get back. The reason offensive players do this is because they tend to cheat for the break out, relying on other players to turn the puck over and get it up to them.

It's a bad habit when you're team is not know for stellar defence, and the team suffers for it, especially when he's not scoring. Hoffman was moved down the line up and sheltered because he wasn't willing to do the hard work after turnovers, while others like Milan (as always) were.

Just to be clear, I want him signed to a one year "prove you can do it again" deal, and I want him to stay and succeed for us.

 

[Cosmix]

Spezza took half the rink to get up to full speed, he has a big boy. We all know you don't like Spezza, it's not really an issue here though. My point was that defensively weak players, for either effort or skill, have a short shelf life here.

Hoffman is NOT effective in the D zone, I like the guy, and have been saying that he needs to improve on it if he wants a regular top six spot. He is nowhere close to Bobby Ryan, in terms of getting back into the play after he has turned the puck over. He is the fastest guy out there, but almost never busts his ass to get back. The reason offensive players do this is because they tend to cheat for the break out, relying on other players to turn the puck over and get it up to them.

It's a bad habit when you're team is not know for stellar defence, and the team suffers for it, especially when he's not scoring. Hoffman was moved down the line up and sheltered because he wasn't willing to do the hard work after turnovers, while others like Milan (as always) were.

Just to be clear, I want him signed to a one year "prove you can do it again" deal, and I want him to stay and succeed for us.

I think you are being overly critical of Hoffman when you say he "almost never busts his ass". I disagree with this as I have seen him back check often. I agree that he has some defensive issues but I would not be as critical of him as you are. Regarding Spezza, I think he was offensively motivated and lazy defensively. I remember Spezza really hustling to check/contain Crosby and succeeding. He did really hustle that time. BUT that was unusual for Spezza.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Spezza took half the rink to get up to full speed, he has a big boy. We all know you don't like Spezza, it's not really an issue here though. My point was that defensively weak players, for either effort or skill, have a short shelf life here.

Hoffman is NOT effective in the D zone, I like the guy, and have been saying that he needs to improve on it if he wants a regular top six spot. He is nowhere close to Bobby Ryan, in terms of getting back into the play after he has turned the puck over. He is the fastest guy out there, but almost never busts his ass to get back. The reason offensive players do this is because they tend to cheat for the break out, relying on other players to turn the puck over and get it up to them.

It's a bad habit when you're team is not know for stellar defence, and the team suffers for it, especially when he's not scoring. Hoffman was moved down the line up and sheltered because he wasn't willing to do the hard work after turnovers, while others like Milan (as always) were.

Just to be clear, I want him signed to a one year "prove you can do it again" deal, and I want him to stay and succeed for us.

Straight up BS, could not disagree more. If there's one defensive thing Hoff does well it's busting his ass on the backcheck, the rest I will give you, he's weak in battles and gets lost but it's definitely not from a lack of effort. Ryan looks like Spezza skating back, slow and laborous, but I feel the effort is there.

 

[burf]

Exactly bro. you know how many guys come in, pop 20-25, think they're brett ****ing hull and demand to be paid like a superstar... they're one and done.. playing in the E the next season, scraping the dirty grout of their apartment bath-tub in ****ing Kalamazoo...

just cannot believe the guy is holding out and didn't show up for dev camp. shutup and sign your contract bud.

Why would he go to dev camp? He's 24 years old, and he's played a full season in the NHL. If Stone, Boro, etc. aren't there, why should he be? He's just as (or more) proven than they are, given his track record.

 

[MiscBrah]

Funny how people rag on Hoffman for having one good year and tell him he needs to prove himself when Stone had "one good year" and got a nice 3 year deal.

I love both guys, but I'm getting tired of people kissing Stone's feet and throwing stones at Hoffman.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Spezza took half the rink to get up to full speed, he has a big boy. We all know you don't like Spezza, it's not really an issue here though. My point was that defensively weak players, for either effort or skill, have a short shelf life here.

Hoffman is NOT effective in the D zone, I like the guy, and have been saying that he needs to improve on it if he wants a regular top six spot. He is nowhere close to Bobby Ryan, in terms of getting back into the play after he has turned the puck over. He is the fastest guy out there, but almost never busts his ass to get back. The reason offensive players do this is because they tend to cheat for the break out, relying on other players to turn the puck over and get it up to them.

It's a bad habit when you're team is not know for stellar defence, and the team suffers for it, especially when he's not scoring. Hoffman was moved down the line up and sheltered because he wasn't willing to do the hard work after turnovers, while others like Milan (as always) were.

Just to be clear, I want him signed to a one year "prove you can do it again" deal, and I want him to stay and succeed for us.

Agreed.

And we have to remember, skating hard isn't necessarily working hard. For some guys out there, skating hard is just a way to "look good" on the ice to give the appearance of working hard. Not saying that is the case with Hoff, but it does happen.

I haven't seen him accomplish much on the defensive end of the ice, like stripping pucks away from guys or blocking lanes and all that....but he magically knows how to do all that in the offensive areas of the ice. He definitely has to improve the defensive side (not saying he has to be great, but he can't be a liability, either).

He'll get there, but it will take a bit of time. At this point, the only logical contract is a one year "show us it wasn't a fluke" type deal.

 

[HavlatMach9]

As long as the term isn't 2 years, I think we're good.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I think you are being overly critical of Hoffman when you say he "almost never busts his ass". I disagree with this as I have seen him back check often. I agree that he has some defensive issues but I would not be as critical of him as you are. Regarding Spezza, I think he was offensively motivated and lazy defensively. I remember Spezza really hustling to check/contain Crosby and succeeding. He did really hustle that time. BUT that was unusual for Spezza.

The reason why I'm discussing it is not to be overly critical, it's to bring up the reason why he's not a slam dunk for a long term deal, and why he was bumped down the line up down our historic stretch. He really has to round out his game if he wants to be an impact player long term. I want him to do that here, but he has to be as excited on the backcheck as he is on rushing and shooting because he doesn't create much for teammates, and doesn't win too many battles. If the scoring drops, he needs other areas of strength to fall back on.

Straight up BS, could not disagree more. If there's one defensive thing Hoff does well it's busting his ass on the backcheck, the rest I will give you, he's weak in battles and gets lost but it's definitely not from a lack of effort. Ryan looks like Spezza skating back, slow and laborous, but I feel the effort is there.

It's ok, it looks like we completely disagree, I'm ok with that. Hoffman rarely busts his ass on the backcheck, but when he does we can see it because he's fast. It bothers me more because it's obvious that he can do it. To me it seems more like instinctively it's not been his game, so he hesitates to do it and then often it looks like the coaches voice in his head kickstarts him or something.

I think the big lesson for him going forward is that goal aren't everything here. If you don't pull your weight defensively no matter what, you're losing ice time.

Agreed.

And we have to remember, skating hard isn't necessarily working hard. For some guys out there, skating hard is just a way to "look good" on the ice to give the appearance of working hard. Not saying that is the case with Hoff, but it does happen.

I haven't seen him accomplish much on the defensive end of the ice, like stripping pucks away from guys or blocking lanes and all that....but he magically knows how to do all that in the offensive areas of the ice. He definitely has to improve the defensive side (not saying he has to be great, but he can't be a liability, either).

He'll get there, but it will take a bit of time. At this point, the only logical contract is a one year "show us it wasn't a fluke" type deal.

Agreed.

Also, I think more people are excited about Stone because he just got better and better as he was given more opportunity, and he was at his best when we needed it the most. He was also one of the highest scoring PLAYERS in the second half of the season. He plays a different game where not only can he score, but he makes plays that get other players scoring. He is also younger and burning RFA years.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think we are extremely lucky that Stone and Zibby took a bit of a sweetheart deal, too. We have a bit of room to play with.

It's really easy to like Stone. His takeaways in the offensive zone are spectacular. Damn near close to highlight reel plays. Hoffmans' offensive game is a bit more subtle to see...that release is so quick, you have to see it replay to 'get it.'

I really do like Hoff and what he brings to the team, but we've had too many 'bad' contracts lately.....I'd rather be a bit overly-cautious than risk having another Greening.

 

[WhiteLight*]

lol Hoffman is not bad defensively. Skates back hard, almost always in the correct position, doesn't neglect his assignments. He's not a liability out there, not even close.

Classic case of: not feisty/physical + saw him make one costly turnover this season = bad defensively.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

lol Hoffman is not bad defensively. Skates back hard, almost always in the correct position, doesn't neglect his assignments. He's not a liability out there, not even close.

Classic case of: not feisty/physical + saw him make one costly turnover this season = bad defensively.

Seems the coaching staff disagreed with you quite a bit.

 

[BigBush*]

Seems the coaching staff disagreed with you quite a bit.

Seems like the coaching staff disagreed with themselves. Everytime he was taken off Zib's line he always found his way back on it and that line always played better

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

No matter what anyone says, in no world does a guy who just finished with 2nd highest +/- on the team as a ROOKIE is bad defensively.

Management only said it to get this guy to play harder and continue improving. I mean wasn't great but he wasn't a liability too and when he was, he was rarely spending time in his own zone too so it wasn't even that big of a concern to begin with.

He is an absolute puck possession machine and was at one point +25 or something before bad last 10 games where he kept getting demoted or not enough ice-time and that was mostly cause Ryan wasn't doing jack ****.

+/- is not normally a good indication of anything but when you are that high, as a rookie no less, and near top of the team while playing in top 6 capacity for half season, then anything below "average defensively" is utter ****.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Btw, I think Hoffman can a huge even better season next year than this one.

35 goals -65 points.

Tyler Johnson like break-out from rookie year to this year. But he may put up same points as this year for another season then really break out, he tends to do that to iron all the kinks before flat out dominating.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Btw, I think Hoffman can a huge even better season next year than this one.

if that happens, i don't even wanna know what contract he'd be in line for

 

[Icelevel]

lol Hoffman is not bad defensively. Skates back hard, almost always in the correct position, doesn't neglect his assignments. He's not a liability out there, not even close.

Classic case of: not feisty/physical + saw him make one costly turnover this season = bad defensively.

when he lead the team in +/- at +25 or whatever I posted that I felt better/safer when he was on the ice. that was just the feeling i had not reaction to stats. i thought the +/- was a reflection of his ability to be all over the place breaking up plays with his speed.
i was confused when i heard about the coach's unhappiness and reduced ice time.

 

[GWNR]

I cant recall any game this year where I said to myself "God damnit Hoffman, you have to be in better position/you have to take your man".

He's by no means a good defensively player, he's average. Which is normal for a sniper.

As for his offence the guy has a ridiculous shot. If he does get a year here I really hope Cameron keeps him in that top 6 and doesn't move him around. I think that hurt his confidence and obviously playing on the 4th hurt his production.

If he does get moved down I'd hope it's to a line with Pageau and Lazar:
Milo/Zibb/Ryan
Mac/Turris/Stone
Hoff/Pageau/Lazar

Pretty nice top 9. Milo and Hoffman are interchangable.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

if that happens, i don't even wanna know what contract he'd be in line for

That would be a good thing...having to pay for tremendous on ice success....

I hope he has a 30 goal year, and gets paid !! It's not my money, and we have useless contracts coming off the books (Neil, Phillips), so cap space should be there.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

if that happens, i don't even wanna know what contract he'd be in line for

If he improves on his 27 goals next year, then he has shown that he's legit and deserves a big contract.

 

[operasen]

Hoffman gets ragged on because its only a one year to base his work on. Yet he is mentioned in the same analytics chart area as Tarasenko, Kucherov, Perry, Stamkos, Sequin; some of the best. He's also better defensively, or equal to, most of those players. If any of those guys were on our team, I doubt we'd be complaining they aren't as defensively responsible as xxx (pick a player).

http://www.tsn.ca/sens-hoffman-has-good-case-for-arbitration-1.331024

I'll buy the show me again contract, but obviously his camp wants more now. I get that as well. Its a fine line Murray is walking not to make Hoffman sign his one year deal, but then want to move on the next year. We've been waiting for guys like Hoffman (and a few others) for a decade.

 

[Coco the Monkey*]

No matter what anyone says, in no world does a guy who just finished with 2nd highest +/- on the team as a ROOKIE is bad defensively.

Management only said it to get this guy to play harder and continue improving. I mean wasn't great but he wasn't a liability too and when he was, he was rarely spending time in his own zone too so it wasn't even that big of a concern to begin with.

He is an absolute puck possession machine and was at one point +25 or something before bad last 10 games where he kept getting demoted or not enough ice-time and that was mostly cause Ryan wasn't doing jack ****.

+/- is not normally a good indication of anything but when you are that high, as a rookie no less, and near top of the team while playing in top 6 capacity for half season, then anything below "average defensively" is utter ****.

Haha +/- is irrelevant. Hoffman was sheltered in order to succeed. Put him up against first liners and he'd be roasted. He is not a good defensive player.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Guys, we still aren't entirely sure what Hoffman is yet. He could end up being a one-dimensional soft scorer, or he could become a strong two-way high end scoring threat. We need more than one season to really know for sure.

 

[GWNR]

Haha +/- is irrelevant. Hoffman was sheltered in order to succeed. Put him up against first liners and he'd be roasted. He is not a good defensive player.

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

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