Mike Hoffman | Part II UPDATE: Off to Arbitration

[Erik Alfredsson]

Thats whats going on with Lazar, and he never really got a shot to prove he was ready because it was 1, or 2 game stint and gone.

No that's not what's going on with Lazar. Lazar proved to be a useful player at the start of the season. Now he's in a slump, it's not like he's never going to play for us again.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

People are going to flame you for this post but I agree with it. I like Hoffman a lot, and he's a good player so I hope he signs a team friendly deal.

Up until a few months ago the Senators treated Hoffman like he was organizational filler, an AHL lifer who you'd call up to play <10 minutes/game to reinforce an injury depleted roster. He certainly doesn't owe the Senators his undying loyalty or a home town discount at this point.

That's because up until a few months ago. That's exactly was Hoffman was.

 

[Sun God Nika]

I just got the feeling in his interview during the skills comp that he seemed very indifferent about his contract situation and didn't even give the hopeful "I want to be a Senator" feeling that even Methot gives, and look where his contract situation is. I believe he said something along the lines of " I'm a senator now" and that "he doesn't get involved in contract stuff". He kinda gave me the feel that he feels like he isn't in a hurry to get anything done because he thinks with his play will make his value higher the larger sample size teams get. Maybe I'm reading to much into it or not catching the vibes right. Did anyone else see that interview? What did you think?

I got those vibes when ever Hemsky was interviewed and people were calling me crazy, he was using words like you guys (referring to the sens) instead of we. The bad news is even though Hoffman is an RFA, he can go to arbitration and get a 1 year deal done, and leave. The good news is that the sens basically still have full value for him, and can package him for an established player

I am hopeful we sign the guy, because every game he looks more and more like a 60 point player, that can get you 20-30 goals when the season is done, I just don't think a contract extension is gonna come as easily as people here think, Hoffman owes the sens nothing.

 

[jbeck5]

What are they supposed to do, keep on the roster when he clearly wasn't ready yet?

He had nothing left to prove at the AHL while looking like one of our most talented and dangerous forwards while up in the NHL. Considering we were going for a cheap and young roster, he should have finished out the year in the NHL while having his spot to lose the following year.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I got those vibes when ever Hemsky was interviewed and people were calling me crazy, he was using words like you guys (referring to the sens) instead of we. The bad news is even though Hoffman is an RFA, he can go to arbitration and get a 1 year deal done, and leave. The good news is that the sens basically still have full value for him, and can package him for an established player

I am hopeful we sign the guy, because every game he looks more and more like a 60 point player, that can get you 20-30 goals when the season is done, I just don't think a contract extension is gonna come as easily as people here think, Hoffman owes the sens nothing.

Hoffman wanting leave or wanting to just play one more year here and then leave would make me laugh. And if he does try and pull that expect him gone at the deadline. He is what he is because of Murray and co. They have no yet made a single bad decision concerning Hoffman. Look what they've turned him into. There was no mishandling.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I got those vibes when ever Hemsky was interviewed and people were calling me crazy, he was using words like you guys (referring to the sens) instead of we. The bad news is even though Hoffman is an RFA, he can go to arbitration and get a 1 year deal done, and leave. The good news is that the sens basically still have full value for him, and can package him for an established player

I am hopeful we sign the guy, because every game he looks more and more like a 60 point player, that can get you 20-30 goals when the season is done, I just don't think a contract extension is gonna come as easily as people here think, Hoffman owes the sens nothing.

Hoffman wanting leave or wanting to just play one more year here and then leave would make me laugh. And if he does try and pull that expect him gone at the deadline. He is what he is because of Murray and co. They have no yet made a single bad decision concerning Hoffman. Look what they've turned him into. There was no mishandling.

 

[jbeck5]

Hoffman wanting leave or wanting to just play one more year here and then leave would make me laugh. And if he does try and pull that expect him gone at the deadline. He is what he is because of Murray and co. They have no yet made a single bad decision concerning Hoffman. Look what they've turned him into. There was no mishandling.

I agree.

Hoffman wanting leave or wanting to just play one more year here and then leave would make me laugh. And if he does try and pull that expect him gone at the deadline. He is what he is because of Murray and co. They have no yet made a single bad decision concerning Hoffman. Look what they've turned him into. There was no mishandling.

I disagree.

 

[operasen]

I agree.



I disagree.

Well played!

Hoffman may be a tad late, but he is here now and is having an impact. Every league he has played in had a slow start with a build to an impact player. NHL no different.

I see the same for Prince if he's given the chance (Buffalo hoping he doesn't get it, I'm sure).

Out of our prospects, moving forward, I think we can tip the hat for Hoffman, Stone, Lazar, Pageau, Prince and Puempel on the forward end with others like Grant and Robinson another year away

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I swear my I dono what's wrong with my phone. It posts stuff twice.

 

[Busboy]

That's because up until a few months ago. That's exactly was Hoffman was.

He was never an AHL lifer. It was clear that he had NHL level skills from his time up but was never given much of a chance to play off the 4th line.

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

He had nothing left to prove at the AHL while looking like one of our most talented and dangerous forwards while up in the NHL. Considering we were going for a cheap and young roster, he should have finished out the year in the NHL while having his spot to lose the following year.

At what point did he not have anything left to prove in the AHL? I would say it wasn't until last year, where he broke the 30 goal barrier and proved some consistency. Like I said, he also got 25 games with the Sens last year. This "spot to lose" is great talk in hindsight, but if he had busted we'd be in the same situation as Greening, which everyone loves to moan about.

 

[jbeck5]

At what point did he not have anything left to prove in the AHL? I would say it wasn't until last year, where he broke the 30 goal barrier and proved some consistency. Like I said, he also got 25 games with the Sens last year. This "spot to lose" is great talk in hindsight, but if he had busted we'd be in the same situation as Greening, which everyone loves to moan about.

I was talking about last year as well.

We wouldn't be stuck with the same situation as greening. We'd have a less expensive,faster,more skilled, younger player. Much different than being stuck multi years at multi millions for an older grinder with zero skill.

 

[SpezDispenser]

How many years of RFA does he have left?

 

[jbeck5]

How many years of RFA does he have left?

I think one or two depending on certain things.

The age is 27 or 8 accrued seasons. However there exceptions that make you a UFA earlier such as GP and how you arrived to be a pro. Someone else would have to tell you the exceptions as I don't know them all.

 

[Inf4mous0ne]

I was talking about last year as well.

We wouldn't be stuck with the same situation as greening. We'd have a less expensive,faster,more skilled, younger player. Much different than being stuck multi years at multi millions for an older grinder with zero skill.

What do you think his salary/term would have been before this season versus after this season? Could we have saved some money? Probably, but I don't think it will be significant for either $ or term, and therefore isn't necessary/worth the risk of another contract on the books.

 

[jbeck5]

What do you think his salary/term would have been before this season versus after this season? Could we have saved some money? Probably, but I don't think it will be significant for either $ or term, and therefore isn't necessary/worth the risk of another contract on the books.

I'm just saying its weird how quick we are to give 1-ways to talentless players, but refuse to give one to actual skilled players.

Besides, im not too worried about how we treated him. Whatever happened has worked.

What i am saying is that other less talented prospects have been given more love from the organization over hoffman...so when it comes time for him to show us some love, i wont be shocked if he isnt head over heels loyal to us. Im not saying he isnt a character guy who likes it here. I'm just saying i'm sure he's noticed other prospects show less at both the AHL and NHL level, while getting more of a leash.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He was never an AHL lifer. It was clear that he had NHL level skills from his time up but was never given much of a chance to play off the 4th line.

When was he never given much of a chance? When. Last year was his breakout year. Coincidence is that last year was the exact time he got a bunch of games up with the big club. Him "dominating the AHL " directly coincides with him getting his biggest shot up with the big club.

 

[StefanW]

When was he never given much of a chance? When. Last year was his breakout year. Coincidence is that last year was the exact time he got a bunch of games up with the big club. Him "dominating the AHL " directly coincides with him getting his biggest shot up with the big club.

Yup. There is a "the organization held Hoffman back/mismanaged Hoffman" narrative that floats around here and on Twitter. The reality is that Hoffman is a late bloomer, and the number of games he played with the big club each season is pretty much right in line with where his development was at right at that moment. The reality is that the organization was exceptionally patient in keeping him around and allowing him to develop this long, and both he and the organization are being rewarded for this patience.

If anyone wants to see a side by side of his NHL and AHL/ECHL numbers here is a good link:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102284

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Hoffman is re-signing here, especially as an RFA. He won't exactly "cash in" but I'm sure the Sens will offer him a decent contract and he'll be here in the long term(3-4 years I'm guessing for now).

Every other scenario is highly unlikely and only based on personal opinion/bias. They don't develop players like Hoffman only to lose them to UFA, or trade them for peanuts. They are reaping the rewards of proper internal development, that's all, but it's funny seeing people try to over-complicate the whole thing.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I dont understand how people think he was mismanaged. Do people honestly think we could have thrown a 22 year old hoff who wasnt anything special in the AHL on NHL ice and he'd have success in the NHL? Guy had a lot of problems with his game and he has worked on them over the years to become the player he is now.

Much like how they constantly told DaCosta that he had to become stronger i'm sure they gave Hoff bars he had to reach.

Hoffman worked hard to become what he is today and im sure he wont say at 22 he was as good as he is now.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

-4 years ago Hoffman had only 7 goals and 25 points and was a -22 in primarily a 3rd/4th line role. His first professional hockey season was at the ripe old age of 21 because of staying so long in Junior which paid off with a QMJHL MVP title in his last year.

-3 years ago Hoffman had a pretty decent but not great season in the A and got a call up for a game as a reward and a cup of coffee to see the N up close.

-2 years ago Hoffman was brought up again despite not having the greatest production in the A... a sign that management saw something the numbers weren't showing. This time Murray said he was here to stay and spoke very highly of him. He then re-injured his collarbone he'd broken earlier in Bingo and was unable to play the rest of the year despite looking great for the 3 games he did play.

-Last year he had a subpar training camp and had to go down partly because of that and partly because of a numbers/contracts game (Which is nothing new in this league... cuts almost always come down to contract status, not play in camp despite what management regimes always say) Hoffman then tore it up in the A and they called him up halfway through the year AFTER they let him play the all-star game and tear that up. He got to play 25 games to end the year but fell victim to Mac's decision right or wrong on playing time/scratches. Not managements decision on playing time but calling and keeping him up says something and they also wouldn't risk losing him to waivers to play in the Bingo playoffs.

-This year he was on the back burner again due to Mac's decisions but he pretty much forced Mac's hand by playing so well and was pushed up the lineup. Mac was fired and clearly Hoffman has now been used as a main guy in a top 3-6 role. While Hoffman was not named directly, Murray indicated at the time of the firing that they weren't necessarily happy with the coaches decisions and by all indications he's in Cameron's good books.


EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW I've ever heard Murray, Dorion or Lee speak about this kid, they have sung his praises. In fact I remember one interview from 3 years ago when he got the one game call up where Dorion said he thought Hoffman was the only real high end potential forward that they had on the Bingo team at that time. They clearly believed in him and I don't for any reason see how this was mishandling him. They will now surely pay him a nice contract that I'm sure will be worked out before arbitration like this management team always does.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I think its pretty ridiculous to think he'll go to arbitration just so he can leave the sens because he feels mistreated.

Guy was drafted as an overager by his childhood team. They worked with him over the years and regularly gave him not only opportunities in the NHL but top 6 opportunities. In reality Hoffman owes the sens nothing. I'm sure he wants to put himself first and try to get a nice payday this year to make up for all the years of making crap pay in the AHL. I see no indication though.... that hoffman has any disdain for the sens. I actually see reasons for him probably liking people in the sens organization that have helped him along for the last 4 years to become what he is today. Hoffman will probably sign another short term contract around 4 mil. He's not really comparable to Johansen because Johansen is much younger and hasnt missed out on as many years of NHL salary as hoff. I can see the sens saying we'll give you a solid contract that will guarantee you make millions in the NHL over the next few years. Succeed in those years and we'll make you one of our highest paid players over long term.

 

[Proust*]

To me, the Hoffman case-study looks like a lesson in how to develop a prospect. Let them take the time to flourish at a lower level before promoting them.

It's what the Sens didn't do with Zibanejad.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

To me, the Hoffman case-study looks like a lesson in how to develop a prospect. Let them take the time to flourish at a lower level before promoting them.

It's what the Sens didn't do with Zibanejad.

zibby was more physically ready and more responsible defensive then hoffman was imo. I personally would have liked zibby to be given much more ahl time but he was more ready for the nhl then hoff was at around the same age.

 

[operasen]

Yup. There is a "the organization held Hoffman back/mismanaged Hoffman" narrative that floats around here and on Twitter. The reality is that Hoffman is a late bloomer, and the number of games he played with the big club each season is pretty much right in line with where his development was at right at that moment. The reality is that the organization was exceptionally patient in keeping him around and allowing him to develop this long, and both he and the organization are being rewarded for this patience.

If anyone wants to see a side by side of his NHL and AHL/ECHL numbers here is a good link:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=102284

I am hopeful that Pageau, Prince are in the same boat as Hoffman. They have put in their AHL time as others held them away from developing at the NHL level. Lazar couldn't, but guys like Zibanejad, Cowen and even Ceci could have benefitted by another two AHL years, given this attitude.

Choices were made and players rushed or held back because of them. It worked out for Hoffman and Stone. Now lets add Prince, Pageau (one-way) to the forward mix.