Miikka Kiprusoff's HOF Case

[Matti_A]

From the moment Kipper arrived in Calgary to the Cup finals that spring was perhaps some of the best goaltending I ever saw.

Kipper took an underdog Flames team and carried them all the way to game seven of the finals. That is something several of the names thrown around here could never do. Osgood? Please, don't make me laugh.

 

[haak84]

Agreed he was in the discussion for best goalie for at least 2-4 years but there is no way he was without a doubt the best. Brodeur won 4 out of 5 Vezina's and was without a doubt the best goaltender of the mid 2000's

 

[Matti_A]

Miikka is getting under appreciated in here.

He was probably the most athletic and acrobatic goalie of his era and he carried a pretty terrible '04 Flames squad to the cup final through all of the division winners, in what was one of the most dominant seasons by a goalie in history (set record for GAA at the time).

It's a shame he missed a season during his peak cause of the lock out but he peaked really high and was without a doubt the best goalie in the league for 2-4 years.

I can agree that his career wasn't top of the league for long enough to make the hall. That cup in '04 which he technically won would've helped his case ....

For me, in nearly 30 years of watching hockey, that Flames '04 finals loss probably still stands as the toughest pill to swallow. I don't think I'll ever get over it.

 

[djpatm]

Agreed he was in the discussion for best goalie for at least 2-4 years but there is no way he was without a doubt the best. Brodeur won 4 out of 5 Vezina's and was without a doubt the best goaltender of the mid 2000's

Oh Brodeur was basically the best of the '00s but there is that blip that kipper was considered the best. Maybe "without doubt" was a bit strong. He was the best for two seasons then he hit some inconsistencies but stayed in that conversation for most of his career.

 

[haak84]

Oh Brodeur was basically the best of the '00s but there is that blip that kipper was considered the best. Maybe "without doubt" was a bit strong. He was the best for two seasons then he hit some inconsistencies but stayed in that conversation for most of his career.

I'm a big Kipper fan and loved the way he played. Definitely one of the more acrobatic goalies of the past 20 years.

How you described Kipper is how I would describe Lundqvist's career. I think the two are pretty analogous in the fact that once they were starting goalies they were always considered to be in the top 5. They each had a couple seasons where they were the best goalie in the league. They both played on average to above average teams and took them to the next level but were never enough to deliver a championship. I think if Kipper came into the league at 23 like Lundqvists and played like a top 10 goalie, they'd have basically the same career.

Ages 27-35
Kipper:

Lundqvist

Pretty similar... Of course Lundqvist had 4 top 10 goaltending seasons prior to turning 27 but who knows if Kipper would have the same if given the opportunity.

 

[djpatm]

Yup Kipper and King Henrik are pretty similar career trajectory wise, with Henrik having the clear advantage with his start.

Too bad Henrik couldn't get it done. Always liked him.

 

[Tofveve]

Kipper was Hasekuesque for a handful of years. Problem is he came to Calgary when he was 29 already. He had 7.5 kickass years with kickass numbers, with the last partial year showing a drop-off. The problem is not a long enough period of dominance, not enough hardware (1 Vezina I believe), and no cup.

He most definitely was HOF calibre, but for the already mentioned reasons, he won't get serious consideration.

 

[TheStroker]

Kipper is not a HOF goalie, but certainly the hall of very good. No shame in that at all. I still think he should have won the Conn Smyth in '04. Without him, they don't make it past Detroit in round 2. As good as Iginla was, Kipper's performance was on par with JS Giguere the season before (or at least very close). TB had plenty more big guns then the Flames did.

When he won the Vezina in '06, often overlooked was that he was a Hart nominee too. That's incredibly hard to do as a goalie. It's possible that if the '04-05 lockout never happened, he might have a better case to be in the hall (but IMO still not likely to get it). With the lockout sandwiched in between his 2 best seasons, it's likely he could have maintained that peak.

It's hard to ignore his accomplishements though. A Vezina and Jennings trophy, Hart nomination, 1st team allstar, 3 vezina nominations. I think he just had the misfortune of going against a prime Brodeur and Luongo at the same time. He was definitely one of the best goalies in the league though. But among the best of ALL TIME?

He's one of my favorite goalies and had a great career. But unfortunately, I lean towards a NO when it comes to the hall.

 

[Tofveve]

Is this a joke? He was good for a couple of years but HOF? for real?

Even CUJO or Osgood arent in the hall.

Kipper was better than both of those two. He just didn't have the career longevity and lacked a cup to his name.

 

[CraigsList]

Was a great goalie, but I don't think he gets in. He probably would have had he played until 39/40. It's a shame he didn't get a cup because he and Iggy absolutely deserved one.

 

[Tofveve]

Kipper is not a HOF goalie, but certainly the hall of very good. No shame in that at all. I still think he should have won the Conn Smyth in '04. Without him, they don't make it past Detroit in round 2. As good as Iginla was, Kipper's performance was on par with JS Giguere the season before (or at least very close). TB had plenty more big guns then the Flames did.

When he won the Vezina in '06, often overlooked was that he was a Hart nominee too. That's incredibly hard to do as a goalie. It's possible that if the '04-05 lockout never happened, he might have a better case to be in the hall (but IMO still not likely to get it). With the lockout sandwiched in between his 2 best seasons, it's likely he could have maintained that peak.

It's hard to ignore his accomplishements though. A Vezina and Jennings trophy, Hart nomination, 1st team allstar, 3 vezina nominations. I think he just had the misfortune of going against a prime Brodeur and Luongo at the same time. He was definitely one of the best goalies in the league though. But among the best of ALL TIME?

He's one of my favorite goalies and had a great career. But unfortunately, I lean towards a NO when it comes to the hall.

I think everything you said is true, but IMO He'd be a lock for the HOF except he didn't do what he did over a long enough period and Calgary didn't win a cup or multiple cups. Ei., he wasn't really a member of the very good, he was more than that. It just that he didn't get going until his late 20s and then was done by his mid-thirties.

 

[Mobiandi]

It's a shame we could never find a proper backup for Kipper and rode him for 70+ games a season. There aren't many goalies who could handle that workload as long as he did. Shame how almost as soon as he retired we found ourselves starting back-up after back-up, with Berra, Ortio, Ramo, Hiller (in his last season), Johnson all having played for us at some point in the last 4 years.

He deserves to have his number retired. None of this Forever a Flame crap because no other goalie that plays for us would ever take #34 anyway

 

[AfroThunder396]

Kiprusoff reminds me of Kolzig a bit. Hall of Very Good.

 

[mouser]

Goalies not in the hall of fame, current career stats.

Wins Regular Season/Postseason, Postseason All-Star teams, # of Cups won:

Roberto Luongo: 456/34 wins, 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Curtis Joseph: 454/63 wins, 0 Cups
Henrik Lundqvist: 413/61 wins, 1x1st, 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Chris Osgood: 401/74 wins, 1x2nd AST, 3 Cups
Mike Vernon: 385/77 wins, 1x2nd AST, 2 Cups
Marc-Andre Fleury: 378/62 wins, 3 Cups
John Vanbiesbrouck: 374/28 wins, 1x1st 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Andy Moog: 372/68 wins, 3 Cups
Tom Barrasso: 369/61 wins, 1x1st, 2x2nd AST, 2 Cups
Ryan Miller: 360/28 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Evgeni Nabokov: 353/42 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Nikolai Khabibulin: 333/39 wins, 1 Cup
Sean Burke: 324/12 wins, 0 Cups
Mikka Kiprusoff: 319/25 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Olaf Kolzig: 303/20 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Mike Richter: 301/41 wins, 1 Cup
Tomas Vokoun: 300/9 wins, 0 Cups

**Note: I'm not going to break down Cups by whether the player was the primary starter or not.

 

[MMANumminen]

Great goalie but no HOF

 

[haak84]

Goalies not in the hall of fame, current career stats.

Wins Regular Season/Postseason, Postseason All-Star teams, # of Cups won:

Roberto Luongo: 456/34 wins, 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Curtis Joseph: 454/63 wins, 0 Cups
Henrik Lundqvist: 413/61 wins, 1x1st, 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Chris Osgood: 401/74 wins, 1x2nd AST, 3 Cups
Mike Vernon: 385/77 wins, 1x2nd AST, 2 Cups
Marc-Andre Fleury: 378/62 wins, 3 Cups
John Vanbiesbrouck: 374/28 wins, 1x1st 1x2nd AST, 0 Cups
Andy Moog: 372/68 wins, 3 Cups
Tom Barrasso: 369/61 wins, 1x1st, 2x2nd AST, 2 Cups
Ryan Miller: 360/28 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Evgeni Nabokov: 353/42 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Nikolai Khabibulin: 333/39 wins, 1 Cup
Sean Burke: 324/12 wins, 0 Cups
Mikka Kiprusoff: 319/25 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Olaf Kolzig: 303/20 wins, 1x1st AST, 0 Cups
Mike Richter: 301/41 wins, 1 Cup
Tomas Vokoun: 300/9 wins, 0 Cups

**Note: I'm not going to break down Cups by whether the player was the primary starter or not.

These goalies all are in the HoVG for me. Lundqvist/Luongo are right on the cusp where they'd be one of the worst goalies in the HoF or the best goalies in the HoVG.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Kippers 'prime' wasn't long enough for him to be a HOF goalie, in my opinion. He had 2 incredible seasons where it was debatable he was the best in the world.

The rest of his years ranged from pretty good to average.

 

[Martinez]

I'm still haunted by some of his saves against the red wings.

 

[ijuka]

Kiprusoff's peak wasn't very sustained, but at his best in 03-04 he was probably the best goaltender I've ever seen outside of Hasek. He didn't achieve enough for HoF but many don't realize how good he was. His world cup performance also was magical.

 

[Evincar]

When you acquire Hasek in 2001, I don’t think you really care about waiving Osgood or really any goalie. Wasn’t Joseph waived at one point when Hasek came out of retirement in 2003? And nobody wanted him. He was still a good goaltender, at least for another year or so.

I don’t remember what kind of contract Osgood was on at the time, but Osgood was pretty solid until around 2002. He was mediocre from 02 to the end of his career, but he did have a couple great playoffs later on. Could have just been a random 4o some odd games, if that’s the way you look at it.

I wouldn’t hold Osgood being waived against his play at that point. We know he wasn’t better than the guy that he was waived for. That’s universally agreed upon.

Joseph was 36 when he got waived and had a bigger contract. The 2006 lockout was the following year anyways. Osgood was 29 when he got waived. You think Detroit would have been able to trade a Cup winning goalie for some assets but nobody was interested. The Islanders quickly moved on from Osgood after a year and a half.

It just goes to show how he was perceived around the league. Its why its a bit absurd to say that Osgood was better than Kipprusoff.

 

[HockeyThoughts]

• 319 wins
• 1 Vezina Trophy
• 1 Jennings Trophy
• Career .912SV%
• 3 40+ win seasons / 7 straight 30+ win seasons
• 1 Olympic Bronze Medal
• 3 Silver Medals (World Cup & World Championship)
• 1 venture out of the 1st round - which resulted in a Game 7 Stanley Cup Finals loss

Doesn't look like a Hall of Famer to me. Screams Hall of Very Good instead - especially considering how difficult it is for goaltenders to make the HHOF.

 

[Butch 19]

Kiprosoff is EASILY the worst player this HOF question has been asked.

Much worse than even Osgood being "considered" for HOF

 

[hirawl]

Kiprosoff is EASILY the worst player this HOF question has been asked.

Much worse than even Osgood being "considered" for HOF

The worst player? Not even close. He does not have the silverware or individual awards, but there are several players already inducted who were worse player than Kipper.

But the answer is of course not. Great career and an absolutely insane peak but not enough decoration to show for it. That's just how it goes.

 

[haak84]

so what was his career lacking? because as I pointed above he is really only 4 above average seasons behind a guy like Lundqvist. Which really isn't much in terms of accomplishments.

I think if he won another Vezina in the mid 00's then he'd have a much stronger case.

 

[djpatm]

Kiprosoff is EASILY the worst player this HOF question has been asked.

Much worse than even Osgood being "considered" for HOF

Well one was a passenger on a dynasty level team and was waived after winning a cup.

The other almost single handily took a team that had Craig Conroy battling Sean Donovan for the title of the second best forward on the team to one goal from a cup (a goal which they scored ahem)