Microsoft Xbox Discussion - It is my nature

[aleshemsky83]

It's upscaled anyways if you have a 4k display. You don't need HDR for upscaling.

 

[KingBran]

It's upscaled anyways if you have a 4k display. You don't need HDR for upscaling.

*sigh* That's what I said. Its upscaled 4k HDR. And yes, to PLAY GAMES on the One S you have to have HDR. I did not say anything about HDR is needed for upscaling.

Again, see the screenshot I posted? I swear it seems like you are either making stuff up or not actually reading what I am saying and just trying to argue with me.

Those two at the bottom for 4K gaming.... The 4K-10 bit at 60Hz and the HDR10 are the two different HDR technologies - One is Samsung (open source) the other is Dolby. You need HDR to play games in 4K (upscaled) on the Xbox One S. Movies (streaming and Blu-ray) are not upscaled and can play native HDR.

 

[chicagoskycam]

It's upscaled anyways if you have a 4k display. You don't need HDR for upscaling.

Correct and a good display may do that better. The best thing about the S is the UHD player IMO aside from it's faster and smaller than the original.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Well the Xbox One S won't even play a game like Gears of War 4 in 4K unless you have HDR.

*sigh* That's what I said. Its upscaled 4k HDR. And yes, to PLAY GAMES on the One S you have to have HDR. I did not say anything about HDR is needed for upscaling.

What you're saying makes absolutely no sense.

I think my confusion is pretty understandable.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I would bet that HDR becomes more affordable and more available sure. But since they can sell a 4K TV (without HDR) and basically dupe people into thinking they have real 4K they will keep doing it.

Agree with some of this. My friend recently got a Vizio 4k without HDR because it was cheap. I was like you should have spent a couple hundred more. My experience with that brand is not good.

 

[Commander Clueless]

But since they can sell a 4K TV (without HDR) and basically dupe people into thinking they have real 4K they will keep doing it.

Well it's not really a "dupe". It is "real" 4K.

HDR is a standard for brightness/contrast, while 4K is a pixel count standard.

Well the Xbox One S won't even play a game like Gears of War 4 in 4K unless you have HDR.

That's....absolutely stupid if true.

It's upscaled anyways if you have a 4k display. You don't need HDR for upscaling.

This is true, although it's a different type of upscaling. It's supposed to be better and TV upscaling varies, but the differences are fairly minor to be honest....at least as far as I can tell.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I mean it's all upscaling isn't it? Upscaling is just making a lower resolution image fit a higher resolution display. Unless the 1080p image only take up 1/4 of the display it's been upscaled whether by the TV or the console. Downscaling would be fitting a 4k image into a 1080p display which you can also do.

Yeah there is good and bad I've definitely noticed. Actually I had that issue with my PC where I did not set the upscaling to my gpu and instead let my display do it and it looked like absolute dog crap even if it was 900p upscaled to 1080. Finally I set it to gpu scaling and it looked fine.

Games even have their own resolution scaling now (shadow warrior, Doom, Frostbite games, gta v) that will upscale or downscale to native and look pretty convincing

 

[KingBran]

What you're saying makes absolutely no sense.

I think my confusion is pretty understandable.

It does make sense. You just don't get it. The Xbox One S will not let you play in 4K without HDR. Look at the dang screenshot. Its like the 5th time I have referenced it. I have experienced it myself even! My TV that didn't have HDR wouldn't switch to 4K when I played GoW4. Just because the TV can do 4K doesn't mean it will play all content in 4K if it can. The Xbox One S REQUIRES HDR to play the games it currently upscales to 4K. So you need HDR to play games on the Xbox One S in 4K.

Think of it like this... You have a car that can go 100MPH. You can drive it on a road where the speed limit is 400MPH, it's possible - but you will get pulled over and told you cannot drive on it because you drive too slow. But if you had a car that can drive 400MPH you can legally drive on that road without issue. The road being the Xbox, the speed limit being your 4K TV and the car being the game you want to play.

I don't know how else to explain it.

That's....absolutely stupid if true.

So much stuff requires HDR it should be the standard. People are getting hosed over thinking their 4K TV can do anything 4K and it cant. Sure, some movies will play in 4K without HDR but they look terrible. I agree that it's stupid and people really need to do their research before they buy a 4K TV because getting one without HDR is just dumb.

It like when 1080 first came out and they sold 1080 TV's that were 1080i and only had component cables. They could say its a 1080 TV and sell it for hundreds of dollars cheaper than a 1080P TV with HDMI. It's kind of the same thing here with people buying cheap 4K non-HDR TV's now. It's dumb.

Agree with some of this. My friend recently got a Vizio 4k without HDR because it was cheap. I was like you should have spent a couple hundred more. My experience with that brand is not good.

The difference is incredible. Definitely worth it to buy HDR. Without it, it will be like playing 1080i over component cables vs 1080p over HDMI but much bigger of a difference.

 

[KingBran]

I mean it's all upscaling isn't it? Upscaling is just making a lower resolution image fit a higher resolution display. Unless the 1080p image only take up 1/4 of the display it's been upscaled whether by the TV or the console. Downscaling would be fitting a 4k image into a 1080p display which you can also do.

Yeah there is good and bad I've definitely noticed. Actually I had that issue with my PC where I did not set the upscaling to my gpu and instead let my display do it and it looked like absolute dog crap even if it was 900p upscaled to 1080. Finally I set it to gpu scaling and it looked fine.

Games even have their own resolution scaling now (shadow warrior, Doom, Frostbite games, gta v) that will upscale or downscale to native and look pretty convincing

Its all about pixel density and what the native format of your media is. It's not upscaling if you are playing a 1080p game on a TV that supports 1080p. No mater how big the TV is.

If the media's (game / movie) native format is 1080p then its not upscaling on a 1080p screen. If that media is played on say 4k and the tv supports 4k then yes, its upscaling because the pixel density of the TV is different than the native of the media.

Lots of this was going on last generation of gaming (X360, PS3) where games were native 720p but played on 1080p. Lots of upscaling last generation. Most games now are native 1080p. Whatever your TV supports it may be upscaling if you change the resolution.

 

[aleshemsky83]

It does make sense. You just don't get it. The Xbox One S will not let you play in 4K without HDR. Look at the dang screenshot. Its like the 5th time I have referenced it. I have experienced it myself even! My TV that didn't have HDR wouldn't switch to 4K when I played GoW4. Just because the TV can do 4K doesn't mean it will play all content in 4K if it can. The Xbox One S REQUIRES HDR to play the games it currently upscales to 4K. So you need HDR to play games on the Xbox One S in 4K.

If the media's (game / movie) native format is 1080p then its not upscaling on a 1080p screen. If that media is played on say 4k and the tv supports 4k then yes, its upscaling because the pixel density of the TV is different than the native of the media.

If you have a 4k tv it supports 4k.

I actually didn't catch the other 4 times but lets put the picture in context. Its a 4k 60Hz tv that doesn't support 10 bit color. 50 Hz is europe so it naturally doesn't support that and most tvs don't support 120 Hz.

The tv upscales regardless. If you put a DVD into your console and put it on your 4k tv, the dvd gets upscaled to 4k (and look awful). Your console is doing the upscaling, but you can turn that off and your tv will do it. Same with Bluray. I'm honestly confused why you would think it wouldn't. 99% of content out there is not 4k. There are physically 8 million dots on your panel. If the game is running, there 4k unless it looks like this:

Im honestly confused about your definition of "play in 4k"

 

[KingBran]

If you have a 4k tv it supports 4k.

I actually didn't catch the other 4 times but lets put the picture in context. Its a 4k 60Hz tv that doesn't support 10 bit color. 50 Hz is europe so it naturally doesn't support that and most tvs don't support 120 Hz.

You must have missed when I said: Those two at the bottom for 4K gaming.... The 4K-10 bit at 60Hz and the HDR10 are the two different HDR technologies - One is Samsung (open source) the other is Dolby.

Im honestly confused about your definition of "play in 4k"

I'll try to be even simpler. Xbox One S games like Gears of War 4. To upscale it to 4K you need a 4K TV with HDR. Regardless of if your TV can display 4K without HDR. You need the HDR to play GoW4 in 4K. That's how the Xbox does it. Basically, they don't want their games looking like junk. At least that's the best explanation I can come up with. It doesn't matter what the reasoning is though.

To play Xbox One S games in 4k - for the games that support it, it has to be played on an HDR TV. Please see above one of the many times I explain what that is.

If you seriously still don't get it after this there is no point in replying to you anymore. No need for you to nit-pick. I have explained it now about 5 times. If you don't get it then that's just too bad for you or maybe someone else can explain it for you. It makes perfectly logical sense whether you agree with how they do it or not - all opinions aside - that's how it works. You need a 4K HDR TV for the One S to play 4K games. There is NO option to play games in 4K without HDR.

 

[aleshemsky83]

Yeah, you really need to define 4k. What do you think 4k is? And how many pixels are on a 4k HDR tv playing gears 4 versus non HDR tv gears 4?

Maybe you're referring to 10 bit color upscaling better? I'm really not sure what your saying.

When you say it doesn't upscale is it really that large black box around the image? You are really not being clear.

If there aren't huge black borders around the image, it's being upscaled.

 

[KingBran]

Yeah, you really need to define 4k.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+4K?

What do you think 4k is? And how many pixels are on a 4k HDR tv playing gears 4 versus non HDR tv gears 4?

Maybe you're referring to 10 bit color upscaling better? I'm really not sure what your saying.

When you say it doesn't upscale is it really that large black box around the image? You are really not being clear.

If there aren't huge black borders around the image, it's being upscaled.

I NEVER SAID IT DOESN'T UPSCALE!
Please show me a quote where I said it doesn't upscale.
Or show me a quote where I said HDR was required to upscale. You can't. You made that up.

I have always said it upscales. Are you really that dense or just trying to get a rise out of me? Upscaling has nothing to do with HDR I have said that from the start! However, the Xbox One S uses upscaling and requires HDR to play current games on the One S in 4k that support it. That's what the Xbox team decided was best for their games on the One S. There is literally no simpler way of putting it.

Now you are just lying and saying that I said things I never said. Beginning to think you are really just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. You are making up things and saying I said things that I never said.

You are going way off the rails and lying. I am done with this discussion.

 

[KingBran]

Battlefront 2 will be Xbox One X enhanced now too.

Seriously don't see any reason (other than non One X owners) not to buy any non PS exclusive on the One X. This thing is going to be a beast and the marquee console for multi-plat and of course Xbox exclusives.

 

[Commander Clueless]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+4K?



I NEVER SAID IT DOESN'T UPSCALE!
Please show me a quote where I said it doesn't upscale.
Or show me a quote where I said HDR was required to upscale. You can't. You made that up.

I have always said it upscales. Are you really that dense or just trying to get a rise out of me? Upscaling has nothing to do with HDR I have said that from the start! However, the Xbox One S uses upscaling and requires HDR to play current games on the One S in 4k that support it. That's what the Xbox team decided was best for their games on the One S. There is literally no simpler way of putting it.

Now you are just lying and saying that I said things I never said. Beginning to think you are really just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. You are making up things and saying I said things that I never said.

You are going way off the rails and lying. I am done with this discussion.

I could be wrong, but I think the disconnect in communication is the use of term "play it in 4K".

My interpretation of what you are saying is that the Xbox One S can't use its 4K/HDR mode if the TV doesn't have HDR.

However, you can still play the game on a 4K TV without HDR, and the TV will upscale it for you.

Both are technically upscaling, but the difference is where it is being upscaled.

Sound about right?

So much stuff requires HDR it should be the standard. People are getting hosed over thinking their 4K TV can do anything 4K and it cant. Sure, some movies will play in 4K without HDR but they look terrible. I agree that it's stupid and people really need to do their research before they buy a 4K TV because getting one without HDR is just dumb.

To be fair, I think the "UHDTV" standard is 4K with HDR (as of 2016 I believe), but in order to call something 4K you just need to meet the minimum resolution since the 4K only references the pixel count. For example, 4K is a term used for monitors also, and most monitors don't have HDR (although it is coming apparently).

It's a key difference in terminology, although it no doubt confuses people....probably intentionally.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I mean it's all upscaling isn't it? Upscaling is just making a lower resolution image fit a higher resolution display. Unless the 1080p image only take up 1/4 of the display it's been upscaled whether by the TV or the console. Downscaling would be fitting a 4k image into a 1080p display which you can also do.

True, but not all upscaling is created equally.


That said, at the average distance from a TV to a couch, you are unlikely to notice much difference.


On the other hand, HDR's improvements to contrast are quite noticeable...especially compared to a cheaper display such as my Vizio.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I can definitely tell the difference in 4k content vs 1080P without HDR. If that's the discussion??? There is so little content other than Youtube out there with HDR.

 

[Commander Clueless]

I can definitely tell the difference in 4k content vs 1080P without HDR. If that's the discussion??? There is so little content other than Youtube out there with HDR.

4K video is a bit of a different beast. There you are seeing the difference between video in actual 4K resolution vs a 1080p signal your TV upscales.


In terms of games, the Xbox One S (and PS4 Pro for that matter) is not powerful enough to render games at 4K, so it renders at a lower resolution and then upscales it to 4K.

At the moment we're discussing the difference between the One S' upscaling and your TV's built in upscaling (I think ).

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I have a 4K TV with HDR and configured appropriately with the XBS set-up for 4K gaming. I have not noticed a single visual improvement to my gaming process and actually figured the games either weren't updated or the improvements were scaled up.

I see plenty of movie and streaming improvements when I watch UHD from Netflix or Prime, but not gaming.

It's worth noting that animation is generally not the easiest thing to perceive a visual improvement in anyways. A 1080p or 4K animated movie, with the exception of the HDR color differences, can look nearly identical unless a side by side comparison is going on.

 

[aleshemsky83]

I actually did look into this a bit since it got me curious. To my understanding an HDR TV just scales better by virtue of it being capable of handling 10 bit color, which scales and stretches better than 8 bit because its a 2 fold increase in color range, and allows for better scaling in that sense.

Edit: Supposedly this is what that one guy meant when he said "higher quality pixels" and got turned into a meme

Icould be wrong but thats what I've got from looking it up online.

 

[Jussi]

Battlefront 2 will be Xbox One X enhanced now too.

Seriously don't see any reason (other than non One X owners) not to buy any non PS exclusive on the One X. This thing is going to be a beast and the marquee console for multi-plat and of course Xbox exclusives.

EA said before E3 that it would look the best on One X so this isn't news.

 

[KingBran]

EA said before E3 that it would look the best on One X so this isn't news.

Article I read was new that day and gave lots of details about it. I don't think those details were known nor do I think everyone here already knew it. But props to you for being awesome and amazing and knowing it already and letting us know how cool you are.

 

[Jussi]

Article I read was new that day and gave lots of details about it. I don't think those details were known nor do I think everyone here already knew it. But props to you for being awesome and amazing and knowing it already and letting us know how cool you are.

I take pride in being an all-knowing dick.

 

[chicagoskycam]

The Battlefront stuff for Xbox X was actually posted in this thread. By me

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I know it's not exclusive or anything but The Wolf Among Us season 2....finally.