McDavid or Matthews

[sparxx87]

I twisted nothing. The only twisting here was you got yourself in twisted in a knot by getting defensive when someone posted Matthews was hurt, which I did not discount, where the inference was had he been healthy, this would somehow make him mythically closer to McDavid as a player. I simply pointed out McDavid has been affected by now well reported series of illnesses that also affected his play. So the mythical slim difference of Matthews to McDavid was seriously overplayed.

I didn’t say that? I was speaking to one player looking ‘off’ and it being accepted, but the other guy was off and it was his ‘regression to the mean’ ‘phantom injury’ etc etc.

Again, let it be the same both ways. It’s unfair to spin it as regression or cooling from a hot start when it’s been an ailment that’s slowed him down. He hasn’t looked like himself of late, and if you know his game it’s been easy to spot. That was the point I was addressing, along with a difference between being sick (can play) and being injured (can’t play).

Go read where I jumped in and the handful of posts above me - I was addressing the spins some of you put on this. You’ve either misinterpreted something I’ve said or you’ve intentionally manipulated it. Either way, you’re wrong, and the evidence is in the thread.

 

[93LEAFS]

So wouldn't the same score effects play a role in comparing players on teams with vastly different records? If the Oilers are riding McDavid to try to get wins while they've be been consistently losing, its going to negatively affect his efficiency.

Except for the primary source of those numbers come from last year, when they were winning. The numbers being used were from 2016-17.

 

[Regal]

Except for the primary source of those numbers come from last year, when they were winning. The numbers being used were from 2016-17.

Gotcha. I came late to the party

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I didn’t say that? I was speaking to one player looking ‘off’ and it being accepted, but the other guy was off and it was his ‘regression to the mean’ ‘phantom injury’ etc etc.

Again, let it be the same both ways. It’s unfair to spin it as regression or cooling from a hot start when it’s been an ailment that’s slowed him down. He hasn’t looked like himself of late, and if you know his game it’s been easy to spot. That was the point I was addressing, along with a difference between being sick (can play) and being injured (can’t play).

Go read where I jumped in and the handful of posts above me - I was addressing the spins some of you put on this. You’ve either misinterpreted something I’ve said or you’ve intentionally manipulated it. Either way, you’re wrong, and the evidence is in the thread.

Here is what you posted when you tried to down play McDavid's illnesses that affected his play. Notice the sarcastic laugh and the hypocrisy in your post? You were caught, and now you are in spin mode. The fact is injuries have affected both players play, infact given the length of McDavid's lingering flu, weight loss, and flu again. It has affected McDavid's numbers more since he tried to play through it.

Yeah... having a cold is pretty much the exact same as back problems and a concussion.

Unbelievable how ridiculous some people can be.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/139044585/

 

[Dondini]

No doubt mcdavid was really sick and lost significant weight but does anyone really believe he is 192lbs. IMO no way you see that guy in a suit he is super skinny. I bet he weighs no more than low 180s. It's not like he's super tall either his combine height was like 6'0 3/4 I believe. I'm 5'9 3/4 185lbs athletic and sub 15% bodyfat and I look massive compared to him I have a lot of athletic buddies who are his height and weight around 190-195 and look way bigger than him. I wish teams would put legit weights and heights on guys. Most NHL players are a lot smaller than most would believe. All about speed these days. I'm a bit of a fitness freak and trying to build my body into a more leaner nhl type body for my own hockey and it would sure be nice to know how big these guys are. But no one is ever going to convince me that mcdavid is actually 192lbs lol not even close

 

[sparxx87]

Here is what you posted when you tried to down play McDavid's illnesses that affected his play. Notice the sarcastic laugh and the hypocrisy in your post? You were caught, and now you are in spin mode. The fact is injuries have affected both players play, infact given the length of McDavid's lingering flu, weight loss, and flu again. It has affected McDavid's numbers more since he tried to play through it.

​

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/139044585/

I was laughing at someone making them equal - I don’t believe a concussion or back problems are equally debilitating as being sick or having mono... do you?

I acknowledged McDavid didn’t have his usual jump, likely because of it, but you can’t possibly say conclusively one way or the other whose numbers were more effected by it.. especially with Kristen Shilton reporting that Matthews was actually injured at the start of the season but the St. Louis game made it bad enough he finally had to sit. Assuming this is correct, Matthews has been battling ailments all season.

You’re painting conclusions that are nothing more than possible theories.. that’s why you have so many people call you out re; the Leafs. You’re consistently changing the measuring stick or twisting the criteria so it’s always an uphill battle and it’s pretty plain to see. “It effected his numbers more because he played through it” is your opinion, not a fact.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No doubt mcdavid was really sick and lost significant weight but does anyone really believe he is 192lbs. IMO no way you see that guy in a suit he is super skinny. I bet he weighs no more than low 180s. It's not like he's super tall either his combine height was like 6'0 3/4 I believe. I'm 5'9 3/4 185lbs athletic and sub 15% bodyfat and I look massive compared to him I have a lot of athletic buddies who are his height and weight around 190-195 and look way bigger than him. I wish teams would put legit weights and heights on guys. Most NHL players are a lot smaller than most would believe. All about speed these days. I'm a bit of a fitness freak and trying to build my body into a more leaner nhl type body for my own hockey and it would sure be nice to know how big these guys are. But no one is ever going to convince me that mcdavid is actually 192lbs lol not even close

By all reports, he was really sick got well, and got sick again. Anyone who downplays how the flu can have an adverse effect on a professional athlete, has no idea what they are talking about. It was quite evident in his play, he was still good, but not at McDavid level. Which is another tier on to itself. When he lacks that explosion and energy, he just is another good player at Matthews level. When McDavid is playing at his level, there are few that are on his tier.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I was laughing at someone making them equal - I don’t believe a concussion or back problems are equally debilitating as being sick or having mono... do you?

I acknowledged McDavid didn’t have his usual jump, likely because of it, but you can’t possibly say conclusively one way or the other whose numbers were more effected by it.. especially with Kristen Shilton reporting that Matthews was actually injured at the start of the season but the St. Louis game made it bad enough he finally had to sit. Assuming this is correct, Matthews has been battling ailments all season.

You’re painting conclusions that are nothing more than possible theories.. that’s why you have so many people call you out re; the Leafs. You’re consistently changing the measuring stick or twisting the criteria so it’s always an uphill battle and it’s pretty plain to see. “It effected his numbers more because he played through it” is your opinion, not a fact.

The concussion was not even confirmed and Matthews was not affected by this since he has not played since this if indeed it is a concussion. But again you jumped into a conversation, when you said you didn't, you were caught telling fibs, you knew exactly what you were doing when you jumped in marginalizing McDavid's succession of flus that cost him his usual explosiveness as a player. And you are doing it again in this post. Your avatar may be Red, but it could be blue and white as far as I am concerned.

 

[HSD19]

Two different players, but I pick McDavid everytime.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here is a breakdown of McDavid's illnesses.

 

[nabob]

No doubt mcdavid was really sick and lost significant weight but does anyone really believe he is 192lbs. IMO no way you see that guy in a suit he is super skinny. I bet he weighs no more than low 180s. It's not like he's super tall either his combine height was like 6'0 3/4 I believe. I'm 5'9 3/4 185lbs athletic and sub 15% bodyfat and I look massive compared to him I have a lot of athletic buddies who are his height and weight around 190-195 and look way bigger than him. I wish teams would put legit weights and heights on guys. Most NHL players are a lot smaller than most would believe. All about speed these days. I'm a bit of a fitness freak and trying to build my body into a more leaner nhl type body for my own hockey and it would sure be nice to know how big these guys are. But no one is ever going to convince me that mcdavid is actually 192lbs lol not even close

I'm betting McDavid is lower than 15% body fat, I believe it was 12% at the draft, and he is noticeably leaner and more muscular two and a half years later. He's also 6'2" now which is more than 4" taller than you, yet you're still basing everything off of combine numbers.

He isn't the fastest skater ever because of his height or weight and that he's smaller than listed. He is the fastest ever because his skating stride is flawless, and his legs and core are freakishly strong.

Also, please don't compare your buddies to McDavid lol. Do they train with the best, including Gary Roberts year round?

 

[authentic]

No doubt mcdavid was really sick and lost significant weight but does anyone really believe he is 192lbs. IMO no way you see that guy in a suit he is super skinny. I bet he weighs no more than low 180s. It's not like he's super tall either his combine height was like 6'0 3/4 I believe. I'm 5'9 3/4 185lbs athletic and sub 15% bodyfat and I look massive compared to him I have a lot of athletic buddies who are his height and weight around 190-195 and look way bigger than him. I wish teams would put legit weights and heights on guys. Most NHL players are a lot smaller than most would believe. All about speed these days. I'm a bit of a fitness freak and trying to build my body into a more leaner nhl type body for my own hockey and it would sure be nice to know how big these guys are. But no one is ever going to convince me that mcdavid is actually 192lbs lol not even close

Lol, you realize a lot of that weight is in his legs anyway, right?

 

[authentic]

Meh. We didn't get mercy from people on McDavid's rookie season.

It was clear as day he was one of the best players already though, I saw the same thing with Matthews before his injury this season as did many others.

 

[sparxx87]

The concussion was not even confirmed and Matthews was not affected by this since he has not played since this if indeed it is a concussion. But again you jumped into a conversation, when you said you didn't, you were caught telling fibs, you knew exactly what you were doing when you jumped in marginalizing McDavid's succession of flus that cost him his usual explosiveness as a player. And you are doing it again in this post. Your avatar may be Red, but it could be blue and white as far as I am concerned.

The possible concussion that he’s out for now, just happened. Everything prior wasn’t a suspected concussion. Nothing confirmed, but the most consistent reports say it was/is his back.

I wasn’t marginalizing anything. I was recognizing that different ailments are impossible to handicap with the information we have. You’re trying to claim one was effected more than the other when it’s purely subjective.

Some were trying to spin the narrative that Matthews had just fallen off when according to reliable sources, he’s been injured. That what I objected to, go read it. You brought Patrik Laine and a bunch of other irrelevant nonsense along with points made by others for some reason?

All we know is that both players have been fighting some adversity and haven’t looked themselves for periods of time... Without knowing the what/where/when exactly, it’s impossible to even try to handicap... Some are trying to do so. That’s why I laughed at the post you showed.

 

[Syckle78]

Has it been confirmed he has a concussion?

 

[Dondini]

I'm betting McDavid is lower than 15% body fat, I believe it was 12% at the draft, and he is noticeably leaner and more muscular two and a half years later. He's also 6'2" now which is more than 4" taller than you, yet you're still basing everything off of combine numbers.

He isn't the fastest skater ever because of his height or weight and that he's smaller than listed. He is the fastest ever because his skating stride is flawless, and his legs and core are freakishly strong.

Also, please don't compare your buddies to McDavid lol. Do they train with the best, including Gary Roberts year round?

no but one of them is in the east coast hes 6'1 190 lbs 10 ish% bodyfat and is a fitness freak looks noticably heavier. It may come to a surprise to you but there are many people who are in nhl shape but just are not quite good enough to play with the best. Or there are alot of people who are pheonomeal in the gym and could crush anything an nhl player could do in the gym. Listen im not trying to down play anything incvluding his flu. Ive had a few bad flus where i lost 10lbs. Im also not arguing his skill or anything like that. Hes the best and the fastest imo. Only thing im arguing is his weight. And no he is not 6'2.

 

[Dondini]

Lol, you realize a lot of that weight is in his legs anyway, right?

no but one of them is in the east coast hes 6'1 190 lbs 10 ish% bodyfat and is a fitness freak looks noticably heavier. It may come to a surprise to you but there are many people who are in nhl shape but just are not quite good enough to play with the best. Or there are alot of people who are pheonomeal in the gym and could crush anything an nhl player could do in the gym. Listen im not trying to down play anything incvluding his flu. Ive had a few bad flus where i lost 10lbs. Im also not arguing his skill or anything like that. Hes the best and the fastest imo. Only thing im arguing is his weight. And no he is not 6'2.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Yeah... having a cold is pretty much the exact same as back problems and a concussion.

Unbelievable how ridiculous some people can be.

Agreed someone is being ridiculous here.

 

[nabob]

no but one of them is in the east coast hes 6'1 190 lbs 10 ish% bodyfat and is a fitness freak looks noticably heavier. It may come to a surprise to you but there are many people who are in nhl shape but just are not quite good enough to play with the best. Or there are alot of people who are pheonomeal in the gym and could crush anything an nhl player could do in the gym. Listen im not trying to down play anything incvluding his flu. Ive had a few bad flus where i lost 10lbs. Im also not arguing his skill or anything like that. Hes the best and the fastest imo. Only thing im arguing is his weight. And no he is not 6'2.

You an McDavid best buds and hang out all the time?

 

[nabob]

The possible concussion that he’s out for now, just happened. Everything prior wasn’t a suspected concussion. Nothing confirmed, but the most consistent reports say it was/is his back.

I wasn’t marginalizing anything. I was recognizing that different ailments are impossible to handicap with the information we have. You’re trying to claim one was effected more than the other when it’s purely subjective.

Some were trying to spin the narrative that Matthews had just fallen off when according to reliable sources, he’s been injured. That what I objected to, go read it. You brought Patrik Laine and a bunch of other irrelevant nonsense along with points made by others for some reason?

All we know is that both players have been fighting some adversity and haven’t looked themselves for periods of time... Without knowing the what/where/when exactly, it’s impossible to even try to handicap... Some are trying to do so. That’s why I laughed at the post you showed.

We know exactly what McDavid and for how long because of media reports.

I'd be willing to bet that Matthews does indeed have a concussion and was playing with one for a while. No reason for them to be so secretive unless they are trying to keep it hidden that he was playing when they knew he shouldn't have been.

 

[Quiet Jack]

Agreed someone is being ridiculous here.

headache? i'm surprised they didn't list "the sniffles"

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

headache? i'm surprised they didn't list "the sniffles"

He had strep throat and a sore throat at the same time. Show some mercy

 

[Quiet Jack]

He had strep throat and a sore throat at the same time. Show some mercy

well i like how they list vomiting as an illness.

CM: "i don't feel so hot doc"

DOC: "oh yeah, what are your symptoms"

CM: "vomiting"

DOC: "hmmmm, sounds like you have vomiting"

 

[OilCanada92]

He had strep throat and a sore throat at the same time. Show some mercy

I don't understand the debate here. It's not like Matthews was better than McDavid while he was sick and Oilers fans are making excuses. He was still better than Matthews, producing at about a 98 point pace and top 10 in scoring.

He's been healthy for a week and he's now 3rd in scoring.

So what are Leafs fans trying to accomplish by downplaying his illness?

 

[Dondini]

no but one of them is in the east coast hes 6'1 190 lbs 10

You an McDavid best buds and hang out all the time?

alright sorry guess im crazy for thinking that a team might have boosted a players weight. Cause that has never happened before. I assume you say this in reference to my 6'2 remark. nohwere is he listed at that so why dont you go say ur brutal chirps to the other guy who said he was 6'2